Eλευθερί
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@eleutheri
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Post by Eλευθερί on Dec 2, 2018 8:42:26 GMT
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Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
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Post by Eλευθερί on Dec 2, 2018 8:45:40 GMT
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Dec 2, 2018 8:57:22 GMT
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Post by Aj_June on Dec 2, 2018 9:07:14 GMT
Pope's [Current one] position has been quite ambiguous over the issue of homosexuality. In 2013 He said that "If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?". Because there is tendency to overreact on social media probably because of increased availability of the platform many people had hailed him for that comment and there was a belief that Catholic Church would soon be accepting homosexuals. In 2016 the Pope said that the Church should seek forgiveness of gays for the discrimination handed out to them for years. He had said "Gay people should not be discriminated against. They should be respected, accompanied pastorally." He had said that “The questions is: if a person who has that condition, who has good will, and who looks for God, who are we to judge?” So it seems to me that the actual position of Church is that homosexual acts are not acceptable though homosexuals are not sinful in themselves. |
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Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
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Post by Eλευθερί on Dec 2, 2018 13:54:46 GMT
So it seems to me that the actual position of Church is that homosexual acts are not acceptable though homosexuals are not sinful in themselves. Members of the clergy and religious orders are all supposed to be celibate, irrespective of what their internal sexual orientations might be. So why is it ok for celibate heterosexual applicants to become priests or members of religious orders but celibate gay applicants are banned? |
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Post by Aj_June on Dec 2, 2018 14:00:28 GMT
So it seems to me that the actual position of Church is that homosexual acts are not acceptable though homosexuals are not sinful in themselves. Members of the clergy and religious orders are all supposed to be celibate, irrespective of what their internal sexual orientations might be. So why is it ok for celibate heterosexual applicants to become priests or members of religious orders but celibate gay applicants are banned? That is the exact question that I had in mind when I read the article. Unless a Catholic or Christian explains and clarifies the conflict in the situation I have to assume that prior effort by the Pope was sweet talk just aimed at improving the image of the Church rather than a true realisation of past mistakes. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 2, 2018 14:06:33 GMT
Meh
Don't ask, don't tell.
There's no reason for celibate dudes to discuss their orientation in the first place.
In any event, not sure why it's news that a pope is being a pope and especially this one who is under direct assault from conservative Catholics.
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Post by goz on Dec 2, 2018 21:39:16 GMT
Yes, as Aj said, a bit of a backflip from this www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/20/pope-juan-carlos-cruz only in May this year. I am surmising that, just as in politics around the world, there is a conservative backlash against certain more 'liberal' position in institutions. The Pope is clearly under some pressure from the more conservative elements in the Catholic Church, which make it difficult for him to be completely consistent in his proclamations and statements as I feel he is definitely a more 'progressive' Pope, by inclination. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 2, 2018 22:35:58 GMT
Yes, as Aj said, a bit of a backflip from this www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/20/pope-juan-carlos-cruz only in May this year. I am surmising that, just as in politics around the world, there is a conservative backlash against certain more 'liberal' position in institutions. The Pope is clearly under some pressure from the more conservative elements in the Catholic Church, which make it difficult for him to be completely consistent in his proclamations and statements as I feel he is definitely a more 'progressive' Pope, by inclination. That wasn't a contradiction. God made women too and they aren't a part of the clergy. |
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Post by maya55555 on Dec 2, 2018 22:45:09 GMT
OK
Name for me ONE religion that openly approves of the homosexual lifestyle in their dogma?
The notable exception is Hinduism, with conditions.
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Post by goz on Dec 2, 2018 22:46:08 GMT
. Yes, as Aj said, a bit of a backflip from this www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/20/pope-juan-carlos-cruz only in May this year. I am surmising that, just as in politics around the world, there is a conservative backlash against certain more 'liberal' position in institutions. The Pope is clearly under some pressure from the more conservative elements in the Catholic Church, which make it difficult for him to be completely consistent in his proclamations and statements as I feel he is definitely a more 'progressive' Pope, by inclination. That wasn't a contradiction. God made women too and they aren't a part of the clergy. You are consistently good at non-sequiturs and red herrings in any discussion. You prove that again here. We are discussing gay men in the Catholic clergy. The Pope sometimes appears to give 'support' to the idea that gay men are born that way and should be 'accommodated' into Catholic Church life and at other time like in the OP, he wavers to saying that they have no place and should absent themselves, especially the clergy. It is an inconsistent position. Further, I don't know how the Catholic Church is going to 'identify' gays in their recruitment programme, as many young men and older would have been brainwashed to think that they are 'normally hetero' by such an unwelcoming and critical Church, and hence fearful of admitting their 'gayness' in these hypocritical circumstances. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 3, 2018 14:46:03 GMT
That wasn't a contradiction. God made women too and they aren't a part of the clergy. And God supposedly made Man and Woman who come with homo, hetero or have both traits of these sexualities. These sexualities must be then ordained by God and are part of the clergy and if women aren't, then it is because they are not made in the image of God, which is supposed to be man. if we’re calling God a dude then why stop at gender and include orientation since orientation is discussed? The point is regardless of what may or may not be natural, there is a decisively higher standard to meet to be Catholic clergy and the pope had never said anything contrary to that. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 3, 2018 14:58:34 GMT
OK
Name for me ONE religion that openly approves of the homosexual lifestyle in their dogma?
The notable exception is Hinduism, with conditions. Greek mythology? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 3, 2018 15:26:53 GMT
Any religion that condones premarital sex would likely include gay sex.
Why wouldn’t they?
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Post by goz on Dec 3, 2018 19:25:32 GMT
And God supposedly made Man and Woman who come with homo, hetero or have both traits of these sexualities. These sexualities must be then ordained by God and are part of the clergy and if women aren't, then it is because they are not made in the image of God, which is supposed to be man. if we’re calling God a dude then why stop at gender and include orientation since orientation is discussed? The point is regardless of what may or may not be natural, there is a decisively higher standard to meet to be Catholic clergy and the pope had never said anything contrary to that. Why is heterosexual 'a higher' standard than homosexual? Both are 'natural' and if you believe in that shit....God given! |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 3, 2018 20:02:48 GMT
if we’re calling God a dude then why stop at gender and include orientation since orientation is discussed? The point is regardless of what may or may not be natural, there is a decisively higher standard to meet to be Catholic clergy and the pope had never said anything contrary to that. Why is heterosexual 'a higher' standard than homosexual? Both are 'natural' and if you believe in that shit....God given! You would have to ask a Catholic. My point is that there’s no reason to know any member of the clergy is straight or gay. They can’t boink anyway. |
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Post by maya55555 on Dec 3, 2018 20:41:03 GMT
lowtacks86
That is not a "modern" religion.
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Post by goz on Dec 3, 2018 20:53:54 GMT
Why is heterosexual 'a higher' standard than homosexual? Both are 'natural' and if you believe in that shit....God given! You would have to ask a Catholic. My point is that there’s no reason to know any member of the clergy is straight or gay. They can’t boink anyway. No, I am asking you because you made that comment and value judgment. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 3, 2018 21:23:02 GMT
You would have to ask a Catholic. My point is that there’s no reason to know any member of the clergy is straight or gay. They can’t boink anyway. No, I am asking you because you made that comment and value judgment. i made no value judgement. I don’t care enough. You said the pope was being contradictory and I was simply explaining how wrong you were. |
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Post by goz on Dec 3, 2018 21:36:09 GMT
No, I am asking you because you made that comment and value judgment. I don’t care enough. You said the pope was being contradictory and I was simply explaining how wrong you were. WHAT? YOU said this and made a value judgment about homosexuals being a different 'standard'!(you inferred lower) Of course the Pope is being contradictory in the two cases I outlined. Last May he was much more accepting of homosexuals in his comments and now this last article he is toeing the hard core conservative Catholic line of non-acceptance in his clergy. |
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