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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 23, 2018 19:30:47 GMT
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 23, 2018 19:37:48 GMT
And yet, simulating things is not his style. I haven't seen any of the scenes, so I cannot tell what it looked like. Is he faking it or is it the worst writing ever?
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 23, 2018 19:48:13 GMT
And yet, simulating things is not his style. I haven't seen any of the scenes, so I cannot tell what it looked like. Is he faking it or is it the worst writing ever? Leo you mean between her and jon? jon was faking entire time...if i could i would bent the knee but....you should have seen his face when he said that im going to find the video so you see how fake it is he NEVER physically bowed to her just because they had sex some fans think jon bend the knee he didnt he verbally only said it to cersei which pissed off tyrion and dany just for the sake of this you have to watch it ,,,,she was talking with tyrion when this exchange happened
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 23, 2018 19:56:42 GMT
Leo of Red Keep video number one of dany/tyrion chat and how ridiculous tyrion statement is jon looking longingly at her for military alliance he was right about the militarily alliance the longing staring he says NEVER happens and dany knows it- a woman knows when a man doesnt like her that way
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 23, 2018 20:04:50 GMT
Leo of Red Keep video #2 jon fake bending his knee..LOL i really laugh every time i see this scene please go to 1:50 mark if you dont want to hear/watch the rest but it is a very important exchange which shows for me in plain sight jon is playing her like a fiddle yes he does feel remorse for the loss of her dragon but calling her dany then my queen then looking down when he said i would bend the knee but was too hurt to do so..lol and on a side note for the hopeless jonerys fans there was a scene that was cut out was supposed to air before this when dany returns from the wall after losing her dragon screaming loosing it blaming JON SNOW.but i guess the producers didn't want to be too obvious .
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 24, 2018 12:03:17 GMT
I wish I could agree but his looking down doesn't seem to be devious to me, especially not when he looks straight at her in the next sentence: "They will come to see you for what your are". It can be interpreted as ambiguous too but Jon is not in a situation to play that game. He needs real help against a real enemy, so if he thought his people would end up with a negative view of her, he would be wary of it himself.
Besides, Jon Snow is not a good actor, he wouldn't be able to play her successfully. Something is amiss. Either that relationship is fake as you say but out of character, maybe it is real and badly acted, which I doubt, or simply bad, inconsistent writing demanding that a character has an inexplicable change of heart.
I'm all ready to believe that Jon Snow will fall down from this cloud and start to see Daenerys as something else but I doubt he does yet. Considerations about simple attraction are not enough to explain all this. People develop feelings aside from it and Jon never was the kind who turns around to look at a girl. Sam said he was, but Jon is motivated otherwise.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 24, 2018 12:30:03 GMT
Watching the beginning of the other scene, I see Tyrion means physical attraction and speaks about staring. This is not love, in spite of half the world calling it that. Sexuality has little to do with love but don't tell that to a massive audience.
Has Jon really been staring at her that way or do we just see Tyrion trying to tell Daenerys how he feels about her? In the latter case, Daenerys has rightly observed that Jon has only been displaying political interest. Jon's change of heart then comes from her actions. She has come to help, she has done the right thing at a risk for herself and that's something Jon values. She has proven herself to him, that's why he can enter the alliance she wants.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 24, 2018 17:23:32 GMT
Watching the beginning of the other scene, I see Tyrion means physical attraction and speaks about staring. This is not love, in spite of half the world calling it that. Sexuality has little to do with love but don't tell that to a massive audience. Has Jon really been staring at her that way or do we just see Tyrion trying to tell Daenerys how he feels about her? In the latter case, Daenerys has rightly observed that Jon has only been displaying political interest. Jon's change of heart then comes from her actions. She has come to help, she has done the right thing at a risk for herself and that's something Jon values. She has proven herself to him, that's why he can enter the alliance she wants. its all tyrion putting these ideas in her head and tyrions take about jon feelings or stares about dany , which will make dany in the end more angry towards him and will think tryion betrayed her big time trying to set up something that is not there from jons side jon tyrion NEVER once had a conversation about jon/daenyrys or any feelings or staring -so how in the world does tyrion knows how jon feels ?? for a change it is tyrion who knows nothing not jon HOWEVER jon and tyrion did discuss another girl about marriage ,feelings etc.. regarding sansa which jon looked ticked off to me and didnt like tyrion bringing up their sham of a marriage . Only time i saw jon look or stare at dany as tyrions puts it was when he walked in dragonstone and looked at dany for first time , kit harington explained that jon snow thought he would see an old woman not someone close to his age daenyrys is young and attractive any man would look .
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 24, 2018 17:41:35 GMT
I wish I could agree but his looking down doesn't seem to be devious to me, especially not when he looks straight at her in the next sentence: "They will come to see you for what your are". It can be interpreted as ambiguous too but Jon is not in a situation to play that game. He needs real help against a real enemy, so if he thought his people would end up with a negative view of her, he would be wary of it himself. Besides, Jon Snow is not a good actor, he wouldn't be able to play her successfully. Something is amiss. Either that relationship is fake as you say but out of character, maybe it is real and badly acted, which I doubt, or simply bad, inconsistent writing demanding that a character has an inexplicable change of heart. I'm all ready to believe that Jon Snow will fall down from this cloud and start to see Daenerys as something else but I doubt he does yet. Considerations about simple attraction are not enough to explain all this. People develop feelings aside from it and Jon never was the kind who turns around to look at a girl. Sam said he was, but Jon is motivated otherwise. i dont know about that Leo ,he played ygrite perfectly remember how pissed she was? im afraid what dany would do in her anger...dany is not used getting rejected by men and i think jon will reject her or betray her for sansa. well jon turned around and looked at this girl ... Writers made sure to set up another similar scene with dany/ jon leaving ...guess who didnt look back? dont think these two scenes were accidental they were shot in this way for a reason D&D are giving subtle hints you know what else is interesting about this scenes? it shows the look a woman has in her eyes when she loves a man and it also shows the look a man has when he loves a woman , 1:17 danys eyes are filled with love for jon her eyes follows every word and gesture he does that is what loves look like while jon is very political in this scene ....and as he leaves doesnt even look back , i can hear crickets . at 0:55 mark you see what a man ( jorah mormont) has love in his eyes for a woman ( dany) the way he looks at her touches her ,kisses her hands , and most importantly turns around at 1:53 mark to look back at dany , because when you love someone that is what you do and i think writers did similar scenes with jon/sansa /dany/jorha/ jon/dany for a reason .Meanwhile the observant Tyrion notices all this and sees dany disappointment in her face when jon doesnt look back it is after this scene tyrion/dany have the discussion about jon snow .staring and other nonsense that dany disputes jon snows DOESNT love for her which she is right about.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 24, 2018 18:00:36 GMT
Yes, I think you're right about all these observations. The way Cersei looks at Jaime tells me the same. I know she is not taking advantage of him. These looks are placed there for good reason. They give us the key we need to understand characters. I don't think Jon "played" Ygritte, though. They had that scene in which he told her they couldn't win, told her about the seven times wildlings tried and failed before. He was trying to make her see reality, hoping she would give up and at least save herself. He was honest with her. So I'll agree that Jon has feelings for Sansa, more than for Daenerys. He cares for his sister. But we need to look at Jon after the "beyond the Wall" episode to draw new conclusions about his real view of Daenerys. Jon never really played anyone. Is he being fooled by the need to trust the ally he must have? This could be. He might wake up and realise he's been a weakened fool grasping at a warm hand.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 24, 2018 20:41:46 GMT
Yes, I think you're right about all these observations. The way Cersei looks at Jaime tells me the same. I know she is not taking advantage of him. These looks are placed there for good reason. They give us the key we need to understand characters. I don't think Jon "played" Ygritte, though. They had that scene in which he told her they couldn't win, told her about the seven times wildlings tried and failed before. He was trying to make her see reality, hoping she would give up and at least save herself. He was honest with her. So I'll agree that Jon has feelings for Sansa, more than for Daenerys. He cares for his sister. But we need to look at Jon after the "beyond the Wall" episode to draw new conclusions about his real view of Daenerys. Jon never really played anyone. Is he being fooled by the need to trust the ally he must have? This could be. He might wake up and realise he's been a weakened fool grasping at a warm hand. Right or wrong there is no question cersei loves Jamie.jamie has said it couple times too . Jon already said he was a fool and I'm 100% was thinking what Sansa told him before he left winterfelle , Sansa told him it's a Trap don't go to dragon-stone when they recieved Tyrions invitation , did he listen ? NO ! And ended up prisoner at dragonstone and told Tyrion here I am the northern fool ! yes youre right jon is not devious he doesn't betray or backstabbing people in a vicious way but he still does it his way he was honest with ygritte but she didn't want to listen and threatened him almost to be with her in the books is even worse was almost like rape sleep with me or else , I still don't think ygritte was jons love of his life type of thing , only reason Jon didn't kill her was because she had red hair like Sansa , they even made a point showing Jon noticing her hair when she got captured by Jon and the watchers .When Jon has no choice and has to help his people he will betray whoever it is , so for those who think Jon finding out he is a Targaryen will make any difference how he reacts to the family he has known all his life the Starks won't make a difrence at all he will still choose the Starks over any targaryen , yes jons line to Dany "they will see you for what you really are" says a lot , Jon will see a different side to Dany , Dany will be VERY angry if Jon rejects her.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 25, 2018 7:38:24 GMT
I often see people say that Cersei is using Jaime, manipulating him. It might be true to some extent of the book character, even though Jaime is a very actively willing partner there anyway, but it is absolutely not in the show. What Jaime says about it does not matter. He could be wrong but he's not and this is proven by Cersei's near unconditional acceptance of him. Not the kind of trait she exhibits towards others. She speaks openly and harshly to him but never keeps him at a distance. He's like a part of her, something she looks at in a critical way but never questions. Separation is unthinkable.
Jon is the positive, feeling, trusting one. He is the man who will trust wildlings and be murdered by his own men. He represents open inclusiveness even at a risk. Sansa is the other side, the one the Lannisters incarnate: cautious, thinking, exclusive. She wanted to marry the prince, not play with the butcher's boy. She didn't even trust her brother with her calling Littlefinger for help.
As to Jon and Ygritte, I think he just couldn't bring himself to kill someone in cold blood, let alone a woman. That's why he spared her. That's why he was shown struggling with himself when he had to execute Slynt (who didn't even have red hair). Ygritte's forcing of Jon is just as present in the show. It might go quicker because it's only one line but it's there: "you swore some vows, I want you to break them". It is essentially a reminder of the death threat Tormund made a moment before. And yet he accepted her. Strange man.
His words to Daenerys ("see you for what you are") might well take a turn but I think they are meant positively when he says them. He might be the first one shocked, although I wonder what the show will do. As much as I want to see her turn bad, I cannot fully bet on it but Jon's lineage is obviously there as a seed of conflict.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 27, 2018 17:55:58 GMT
I often see people say that Cersei is using Jaime, manipulating him. It might be true to some extent of the book character, even though Jaime is a very actively willing partner there anyway, but it is absolutely not in the show. What Jaime says about it does not matter. He could be wrong but he's not and this is proven by Cersei's near unconditional acceptance of him. Not the kind of trait she exhibits towards others. She speaks openly and harshly to him but never keeps him at a distance. He's like a part of her, something she looks at in a critical way but never questions. Separation is unthinkable. Jon is the positive, feeling, trusting one. He is the man who will trust wildlings and be murdered by his own men. He represents open inclusiveness even at a risk. Sansa is the other side, the one the Lannisters incarnate: cautious, thinking, exclusive. She wanted to marry the prince, not play with the butcher's boy. She didn't even trust her brother with her calling Littlefinger for help. As to Jon and Ygritte, I think he just couldn't bring himself to kill someone in cold blood, let alone a woman. That's why he spared her. That's why he was shown struggling with himself when he had to execute Slynt (who didn't even have red hair). Ygritte's forcing of Jon is just as present in the show. It might go quicker because it's only one line but it's there: "you swore some vows, I want you to break them". It is essentially a reminder of the death threat Tormund made a moment before. And yet he accepted her. Strange man. His words to Daenerys ("see you for what you are") might well take a turn but I think they are meant positively when he says them. He might be the first one shocked, although I wonder what the show will do. As much as I want to see her turn bad, I cannot fully bet on it but Jon's lineage is obviously there as a seed of conflict. Well yes I agree even if GRMM written Dany in a bad light D&D would never show that lol it's very obvious she is their favorite and always chose to show her as a victim even when she does wrong , If she's so angry at Tyrion and snapped at him couple times and blamed him or accused him for caring for his family when war plans went wrong imagine how she will feel knowing there is another Targaryen ? but she is in love with Jon so maybe she won't mind ruling with him but she may also see it as a betrayal she may think he knew etc , the thing is I do not think Jon and Dany have much in common especially about ruling Dany believes in bend the knee or die and Jon believes in giving people chances he only executes if it's really bad one of them would have to take a step aside for the other to rule I just don't see Jon allowing dragons flying around burning people she will be seen as a threat dragons are good for when you need them to burn zombies but then they become a danger to the people how is that going to work out ? Dragons have been dead in their world for thousand of years ,people are not used to them , it's not going to go well . im glad you brought up slynt because Sansa had dreams of a knight a hero killing him and that man turned out to be Jon snow another connection that ties Jon and Sansa together ygritte and Jon were horrible together ygritte was bossy and Jon was scared of her lol
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