|
|
Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 27, 2018 18:05:38 GMT
Season 1 Robert and ned discussing the targaryens
and ned told Robert Jamie Lannister can't be trusted because he killed
the mad King ....I'm lost wasn't the mad King MAD???
I think that's the reason Jamie took him out he was planning to burn everyone
I know Ned had other reasons not to trust Jamie but that was odd when he said it like that
|
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 28, 2018 5:49:23 GMT
I don't recall that very statement but it fits with his personality as a principled idiot.
Remember, this is the man who executes a "deserter" without even asking what he's seen. The man wasn't even really a deserter, by the way. A deserter leaves to escape the fighting. This one left to warn others.
Ned Stark is your typical prejudiced turd.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marv on Dec 28, 2018 20:02:46 GMT
I think a combination of Jaime being a Lannister, Tywin being who he was even back then...and that Ned, a man who lived life by codes, saw Jaime as a man without these restrictions even tho he was a Kingsguard.
|
|
|
|
Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 28, 2018 21:53:06 GMT
I don't recall that very statement but it fits with his personality as a principled idiot. Remember, this is the man who executes a "deserter" without even asking what he's seen. The man wasn't even really a deserter, by the way. A deserter leaves to escape the fighting. This one left to warn others. Ned Stark is your typical prejudiced turd. I didnt like that either and then he dragged bran out there to see the execution , ned and the guy with the braided white beard forgot his name they knew from the looks they had on the faces the nights watch man was telling the truth i hope they explain why ned executed him- was it to keep him quiet because of what he saw? and why?? |
|
|
|
Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 28, 2018 21:54:54 GMT
I think a combination of Jaime being a Lannister, Tywin being who he was even back then...and that Ned, a man who lived life by codes, saw Jaime as a man without these restrictions even tho he was a Kingsguard. yeah they never seemed to like each other , i wonder how jon will react to him knowing what he did to bran , sansa may have a different approach towards him |
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 29, 2018 1:53:20 GMT
I don't recall that very statement but it fits with his personality as a principled idiot. Remember, this is the man who executes a "deserter" without even asking what he's seen. The man wasn't even really a deserter, by the way. A deserter leaves to escape the fighting. This one left to warn others. Ned Stark is your typical prejudiced turd. I didnt like that either and then he dragged bran out there to see the execution , ned and the guy with the braided white beard forgot his name they knew from the looks they had on the faces the nights watch man was telling the truth i hope they explain why ned executed him- was it to keep him quiet because of what he saw? and why?? Bran's early education is part of GRRM's world in which people are exposed to everything at a very young age. In the 2nd episode, we see Doreah tell Daenerys she was made to join the "pleasure house" at 9 but didn't touch a man for 3 years, to Daenerys' relief  Ned then tells Bran "a mad man sees what he sees", dismissing the deserter's last words. At the feast, he tells Benjen about it and only then hears from him the man was a good ranger. Arsehole Ned has executed a man without asking the elementary questions but they laugh it off. "Winter is coming". The big man in charge is a fatalist, prejudiced prick hiding incompetence behind common sayings. He does what the masses think is right, like executing anything that looks like a deserter, even when being faced with something unsettling. Ned will go through the whole season this way, head on against the wall, becoming the hero of the simple stupid who wish for a simple stupid world and go on about "honour". GRRM writes grey characters. He made Ned Stark as grey as any other, giving him obvious flaws. A clever audience sees them and weighs them against qualities and those of others. The show didn't hide them. I started disliking Ned early on. By the time he went against all reason, declaring war on Tywin Lannister, I was done with him. |
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 29, 2018 5:43:01 GMT
Season 1 Robert and ned discussing the targaryens and ned told Robert Jamie Lannister can't be trusted because he killed the mad King ....I'm lost wasn't the mad King MAD??? I think that's the reason Jamie took him out he was planning to burn everyone I know Ned had other reasons not to trust Jamie but that was odd when he said it like that This is not in the show but I found the spot in the books. So here we go again with dumb rigid Ned Stark and his disgusting obedience to vows at all cost. I don't see what other reasons Ned had to distrust Jaime at this point. I don't think reason is something he knows at all. He distrusted the man who used his brain instead of following his vow, that's all there is to it. Ned Stark is a life despising piece of shit who thinks Jaime should have died defending the monster he once swore to protect, a trained dog who does what's he's told the way he is told by some consensual stupidity higher than his absent intellect. Cersei saw right through him: "You're just a soldier, aren't you? You take your orders and you carry on. I suppose it makes sense. Your older brother was trained to lead and you were trained to follow." Cersei, S1E04. |
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 29, 2018 6:09:25 GMT
This conversation between Robert and Ned is a good example of how the show improves on the books.
That part showing a stupidly rigid Ned is omitted in the show and replaced with his running into Jaime when crossing the throne room in S1E03.
This encounter is not in the books and leaves us with a more ambiguous view on Ned's mind:
This is a different person talking to Jaime. Here we see Ned reproaching Jaime not to have intervened, not to have broken his vow earlier. We'll see Jaime misinterpreting this, saying he felt rashly judged by "honourable Ned" for killing the king but that exchange turns everything around and lets us think that Ned judged him for not doing it until he no longer had a choice.
The book characters are caricatures, the show makes them more subtle.
It also introduces one further level of complexity in that it makes Jaime and Cersei wrong in their perception of Ned. They judge him by a simplified image of him, bringing their own personality into it. Jaime feels judged because he has some insecurity and Cersei tends to despise him as she does for most people.
|
|
|
|
Post by hi224 on Dec 29, 2018 6:44:20 GMT
Season 1 Robert and ned discussing the targaryens and ned told Robert Jamie Lannister can't be trusted because he killed the mad King ....I'm lost wasn't the mad King MAD??? I think that's the reason Jamie took him out he was planning to burn everyone I know Ned had other reasons not to trust Jamie but that was odd when he said it like that he didn't hate him but he saw him as inferior and cowardly as well. Poor Jamie, if ned could quit being foolish for two seconds. |
|
|
|
Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 29, 2018 16:27:45 GMT
I didnt like that either and then he dragged bran out there to see the execution , ned and the guy with the braided white beard forgot his name they knew from the looks they had on the faces the nights watch man was telling the truth i hope they explain why ned executed him- was it to keep him quiet because of what he saw? and why?? Bran's early education is part of GRRM's world in which people are exposed to everything at a very young age. In the 2nd episode, we see Doreah tell Daenerys she was made to join the "pleasure house" at 9 but didn't touch a man for 3 years, to Daenerys' relief Ned then tells Bran "a mad man sees what he sees", dismissing the deserter's last words. At the feast, he tells Benjen about it and only then hears from him the man was a good ranger. Arsehole Ned has executed a man without asking the elementary questions but they laugh it off. "Winter is coming". The big man in charge is a fatalist, prejudiced prick hiding incompetence behind common sayings. He does what the masses think is right, like executing anything that looks like a deserter, even when being faced with something unsettling. Ned will go through the whole season this way, head on against the wall, becoming the hero of the simple stupid who wish for a simple stupid world and go on about "honour". GRRM writes grey characters. He made Ned Stark as grey as any other, giving him obvious flaws. A clever audience sees them and weighs them against qualities and those of others. The show didn't hide them. I started disliking Ned early on. By the time he went against all reason, declaring war on Tywin Lannister, I was done with him. no offense to GRMM fans he does tell good story telling BUT really makes you think what is one mans mind writing that- i do find his style of writing especially of young women girls actually disgusting. |
|
|
|
Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 29, 2018 16:32:51 GMT
Season 1 Robert and ned discussing the targaryens and ned told Robert Jamie Lannister can't be trusted because he killed the mad King ....I'm lost wasn't the mad King MAD??? I think that's the reason Jamie took him out he was planning to burn everyone I know Ned had other reasons not to trust Jamie but that was odd when he said it like that This is not in the show but I found the spot in the books. So here we go again with dumb rigid Ned Stark and his disgusting obedience to vows at all cost. I don't see what other reasons Ned had to distrust Jaime at this point. I don't think reason is something he knows at all. He distrusted the man who used his brain instead of following his vow, that's all there is to it. Ned Stark is a life despising piece of shit who thinks Jaime should have died defending the monster he once swore to protect, a trained dog who does what's he's told the way he is told by some consensual stupidity higher than his absent intellect. Cersei saw right through him: "You're just a soldier, aren't you? You take your orders and you carry on. I suppose it makes sense. Your older brother was trained to lead and you were trained to follow." Cersei, S1E04. thanks for finding that! i read it a very long time and came across it recently and wondered , its very obvious to me GRMM has two hero families in the saga the starks and targaryens he obviously likes them and writes ned in a way of defending the targaryens all the time,robert told him what would happen if they let daenyrys cross the sea and ned didnt even want to hear it |
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 29, 2018 17:52:17 GMT
no offense to GRMM fans he does tell good story telling BUT really makes you think what is one mans mind writing that- i do find his style of writing especially of young women girls actually disgusting. It is. I found the books increasingly unpleasant to read as the series went on, for various reasons. He makes me think of these kids who start using certain vulgar language or expressing interest in "forbidden" things as a way of affirming their growing up. It is cute on the first day and tiresome on the second. The man hasn't grown out of that age where kids think they appear adult by speaking of sex, filth or horrors. |
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 30, 2018 5:44:13 GMT
thanks for finding that! i read it a very long time and came across it recently and wondered , its very obvious to me GRMM has two hero families in the saga the starks and targaryens he obviously likes them and writes ned in a way of defending the targaryens all the time,robert told him what would happen if they let daenyrys cross the sea and ned didnt even want to hear it I think GRRM likes the Starks. He gives them qualities he values but he had to put a terrible one in to get the drama to flow and that was Ned. Ned defending the Targaryens is just another instance of his being a complete idiot. GRRM likes the Stark children, it is their story. Concerning the Targaryens, he obviously loves to write about them because of all the nasty interesting stuff they do but I doubt he likes them at all. He gives them all sorts of faults, from incest to cruelty to irresponsible piety to madness and makes them responsible for disasters. I think the Targaryens are his way of showing the bad sides of power turned into personal property, a subject which carries over to the Baratheons when it comes to Robert's succession. It cannot be expressed more clearly than in Daenerys' own statement in S2: "I will take what is mine, with fire and blood". And she comes to do it, five seasons later, with two foreign armies and weapons of mass destruction, insisting on unconditional submission, never wasting a thought on what good it is meant to do anyone. So GRRM likes the Targaryens as he likes all the historical dynasties he takes inspiration from. They are a fascinating subject, close to the Ptolemaic Pharaohs who also wed siblings and had a turbulent history of internal wars. I doubt he likes them as rulers, though. Actually, I'm pretty sure he doesn't. |
|
