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Post by Aj_June on Jan 16, 2019 20:32:28 GMT
Were you pleased by it or felt bad or felt pity or felt disturbed?
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Seto
Sophomore
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Post by Seto on Jan 16, 2019 23:15:18 GMT
I must admit the first time I saw it I was a little shocked. It seemed very out of character for Jon,
Then I realised it's just D&D trying to get a reaction from the audience, without caring about character consistency or plot.
Jon is fine with executing a young orphan, but Melisandre, who burned a child alive, is simply banished.
I mean the very fact that Thorne allowed Olly to be apart of the assassination is a tad ridiculous in the first place. Again D&D only care about showing off their actors and getting a reaction from the audience.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 16, 2019 23:21:58 GMT
I must admit the first time I saw it I was a little shocked. It seemed very out of character for Jon, Then I realised it's just D&D trying to get a reaction from the audience, without caring about character consistency or plot. Jon is fine with executing a young orphan, but Melisandre, who burned a child alive, is simply banished. I mean the very fact that Thorne allowed Olly to be apart of the assassination is a tad ridiculous in the first place. Again D&D only care about showing off their actors and getting a reaction from the audience. Many people have tried to convince me that this scene isn't that shocking if you take into account the time period/culture in which the story is set. Sorry, but I am not totally convinced. We know barbaric things used to happen in our society. But knowingly killing a child is very horrible and such was the view across many ancient cultures as well. And I totally agree with you regarding the fact that it seemed out of character. I do be very surprised if it happens in the books at all. Jon is a rather forgiving man and he knows each action he takes has some bearing for the future. The Jon of the book will likely not do it.
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Seto
Sophomore
@seto
Posts: 311
Likes: 225
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Post by Seto on Jan 16, 2019 23:33:23 GMT
Many people have tried to convince me that this scene isn't that shocking if you take into account the time period/culture in which the story is set. Sorry, but I am not totally convinced. We know barbaric things used to happen in our society. But knowingly killing a child is very horrible and such was the view across many ancient cultures as well. And I totally agree with you regarding the fact that it seemed out of character. I do be very surprised if it happens in the books at all. Jon is a rather forgiving man and he knows each action he takes has some bearing for the future. The Jon of the book will likely not do it. Of course Olly doesn't even exist in the books. He's a complete invention of D&D.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 16, 2019 23:35:06 GMT
Many people have tried to convince me that this scene isn't that shocking if you take into account the time period/culture in which the story is set. Sorry, but I am not totally convinced. We know barbaric things used to happen in our society. But knowingly killing a child is very horrible and such was the view across many ancient cultures as well. And I totally agree with you regarding the fact that it seemed out of character. I do be very surprised if it happens in the books at all. Jon is a rather forgiving man and he knows each action he takes has some bearing for the future. The Jon of the book will likely not do it. Of course Olly doesn't even exist in the books. He's a complete invention of D&D. Lol ....I even forgot it. I do need to read the books again. My memory is going blank.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 17, 2019 4:07:50 GMT
Many people have tried to convince me that this scene isn't that shocking if you take into account the time period/culture in which the story is set. Sorry, but I am not totally convinced. We know barbaric things used to happen in our society. But knowingly killing a child is very horrible and such was the view across many ancient cultures as well. And I totally agree with you regarding the fact that it seemed out of character. I do be very surprised if it happens in the books at all. Jon is a rather forgiving man and he knows each action he takes has some bearing for the future. The Jon of the book will likely not do it. Of course Olly doesn't even exist in the books. He's a complete invention of D&D. And how does that even matter? Moron.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 17, 2019 4:09:49 GMT
That shot was the perfect answer to the Olly hate that had been going on for a year. Hateful morons were suddenly realising they didn't want to see what they wanted to happen. It served them right.
This show is serving people's stupidity right to their face and it's not done with it yet.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 17, 2019 4:12:16 GMT
That shot was the perfect answer to the Olly hate that had been going on for a year. Hateful morons were suddenly realising they didn't want to see what they wanted to happen. It served them right. This show is serving people's stupidity right to their face and it's not done with it yet. I see Olly haters enjoying that scene if anything. Don't see many sympathizers for Olly on the net. He is big in the memes world though.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 17, 2019 4:15:06 GMT
That shot was the perfect answer to the Olly hate that had been going on for a year. Hateful morons were suddenly realising they didn't want to see what they wanted to happen. It served them right. This show is serving people's stupidity right to their face and it's not done with it yet. I see Olly haters enjoying that scene if anything. Don't see many sympathizers for Olly on the net. He is big in the memes world though. Most reactors went from "fuck Olly" to "did they have to show it that long?".
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 17, 2019 4:31:48 GMT
I see Olly haters enjoying that scene if anything. Don't see many sympathizers for Olly on the net. He is big in the memes world though. Most reactors went from "fuck Olly" to "did they have to show it that long?". I don't how many constitute "most reactors". over on R/Freefolks community he is the most hated person and almost everyone says fcuk olly. Though yeah, the reactions could be different among youtube crowd.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 17, 2019 5:47:34 GMT
Most reactors went from "fuck Olly" to "did they have to show it that long?". I don't how many constitute "most reactors". over on R/Freefolks community he is the most hated person and almost everyone says fcuk olly. Though yeah, the reactions could be different among youtube crowd. The meme culture is a different thing. It does not reflect what people think, only what they fool around with. Memes are mostly made to make people laugh, more than to express personal opinions, and shared for the same reason. Then there is a bandwagon effect taking place. "Fuck Olly" turns into a rallying cry. Freefolk is full of that stuff. Reactors are more likely to show genuine thoughts and thus more representative of the audience as a whole. That's why they are interesting to watch. They give real insights into the human psyche.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 17, 2019 11:24:35 GMT
Were you pleased by it or felt bad or felt pity or felt disturbed? Since you're asking how people felt then, I went back into my archive and dug out what I wrote at the time. The episode aired on 9 May 2016. A week before, I was writing this: I was getting very disappointed with the show at the time and not posting all that much. Needless to say, my reaction to that scene was not particularly strong. It was expected, as Jon had to take measures. I liked the way Thorne had been given a dignified departure and thought Olly's hard faced silence had been fitting. Jon deserved that haunting stare. All in all, this 3rd episode was the best of the season, the one least ridden with nonsense and fool pleasing. Later in the week, on Saturday, I wrote this:
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Post by Marv on Jan 23, 2019 3:56:34 GMT
Pleased by it. Satisfied but still felt pity. Olly couldn’t help but hate the wildlings. They killed his family. Hard to blame him for his reaction to Jon Snow offering then peace and comfort and safety when they took all that away from him.
Still it’s hard not be happy when a character gets comeuppance. Even if it’s understandable.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 23, 2019 4:55:11 GMT
Still it’s hard not be happy when a character gets comeuppance. Even if it’s understandable. Except it wasn't "comeuppance". Olly and Thorne were right. Jon is an incompetent fuck and his last initiative brought the Wall down.
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Post by Marv on Jan 23, 2019 10:20:57 GMT
Still it’s hard not be happy when a character gets comeuppance. Even if it’s understandable. Except it wasn't "comeuppance". Olly and Thorne were right. Jon is an incompetent fuck and his last initiative brought the Wall down. I’m ok with that criticism. It’s still comeuppance tho. They betrayed Jon, killed him...he killed them back.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 23, 2019 10:53:11 GMT
Except it wasn't "comeuppance". Olly and Thorne were right. Jon is an incompetent fuck and his last initiative brought the Wall down. I’m ok with that criticism. It’s still comeuppance tho. They betrayed Jon, killed him...he killed them back. A matter of terminology. I usually see "comeuppance" used in a general, morally loaded sense, carrying the wish that a bad deed will one day be compensated by some form of punishment, regardless of how related it is to the deed itself. It also expresses that the punishment is deserved. What we have here is a direct reaction. Jon has to kill the rebels in order to re-establish his authority as the one who decides on others. This is basically discipline enforcement. This is also why I object to his leaving his position afterwards. If his watch "has ended" with his death, as he says, then he no longer is Lord Commander and has no legal authority to enforce anything. Edd will be right in his criticism at the beginning of the next episode: "for this night and all the nights to come". Jon is not free of his oath. He has his cake and eats it. The terrible thing in the wider scope of the story is that what Thorne said came true: "what he thought was right would have been the end of us". To this day, there is no indication that the Night King would have had any means of becoming a threat to the south and Jon never had the shimmer of an idea how the wildlings were going to be of any specific help instead of a threat to their winter supplies. Had he sent wildlings on Stannis' ships to go mine dragonglass on Dragonstone, had he trained them to hunt White Walkers with special weapons north of the Wall keeping their families as hostages, we would have a different situation but Jon played the humanitarian, not the tactician.
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Post by Marv on Jan 23, 2019 11:00:22 GMT
I’m ok with that criticism. It’s still comeuppance tho. They betrayed Jon, killed him...he killed them back. A matter of terminology. I usually see "comeuppance" used in a general, morally loaded sense, carrying the wish that a bad deed will one day be compensated by some form of punishment, regardless of how related it is to the deed itself. It also expresses that the punishment is deserved. What we have here is a direct reaction. Jon has to kill the rebels in order to re-establish his authority as the one who decides on others. This is basically discipline enforcement. This is also why I object to his leaving his position afterwards. If his watch "has ended" with his death, as he says, then he no longer is Lord Commander and has no legal authority to enforce anything. Edd will be right in his criticism at the beginning of the next episode: "for this night and all the nights to come". Jon is not free of his oath. He has his cake and eats it. The terrible thing in the wider scope of the story is that what Thorne said came true: "what he thought was right would have been the end of us". To this day, there is no indication that the Night King would have had any means of becoming a threat to the south and Jon never had the shimmer of an idea how the wildlings were going to be of any specific help instead of a threat to their winter supplies. Had he sent wildlings on Stannis' ships to go mine dragonglass on Dragonstone, had he trained them to hunt White Walkers with special weapons north of the Wall keeping their families as hostages, we would have a different situation but Jon played the humanitarian, not the tactician. I’m fine with that. As Thorne even says ‘I fought, I lost.’ And accepts his fate. Or something like that.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 24, 2019 4:40:17 GMT
They pretty much made sure we hated the kid by the time this happened.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 24, 2019 4:48:27 GMT
They pretty much made sure we hated the kid by the time this happened. This show is a perfect lesson in mass manipulation.
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