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Post by geode on Jan 18, 2019 11:30:59 GMT
We are in an era where many religions are losing members, especially Millenials. Often the internet is cited as a cause, since the claims of various faiths can be evaluated using many resources online. I grew up a Mormon, and they are imploding in terms of numbers in some countries such as Mexico. For decades they have talked about their rapid growth, but in fact they have stopped growing. The Mormon church has promoted sanitized versions of its history for many decades, but the real history is very accessible now. Just a couple of years ago this church started posting essays on their website without announcement or fanfare. It is thought this was done to get their own versions out there to counter anti-Mormon versions. Some members were shocked at the content. For the first time, the modern LDS church was admitting that their founder Joseph Smith had multiple wives, including a young teenager. This was news to some members that had not read non-Mormon histories. Some Mormons were actually shocked to the point of leaving their faith. The irony is that members had been excommunicated in the past for publically talking about practices and policies now admitted to be true. This church quietly changed the central temple ceremony at the start of the year to be less condescending to women. This was undoubtedly done due to long-standing complaints by female members. They now make promises to God instead of their husbands in the ceremony. This must have been done to help retain members. Doubt is part and parcel to determining what one will come to believe. Here is how one of the most senior Mormon leaders is teaching young Mormons about doubt. I think this church will lose more members than they retain with such a technique where those that doubt are shamed and blamed for going through a crisis of faith. In my experience those with a confident faith in their church or religion have had it tested by going through periods of doubt. Jana Riess remains an active member of the Mormon church, but often is willing to criticize its leaders. Most that dare to express what she does have left the church, either willingly or unwillingly (excommunicated). She writes: "That has just not been my experience in talking to people in a faith transition. For starters, this whole notion that doubt can never be a catalyst to a deeper faith is fear-based hogwash. Some people who have a faith crisis return to the fold with even stronger beliefs. It’s not a large group, but it happens often enough that we can’t simply depict doubt as antithetical to faith. But I’ve never seen a case where a doubter successfully returned to the Church through shaming tactics such as these. Not once." Full article: How not to treat doubters
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 18, 2019 11:41:05 GMT
It was never a very large church. The effect the internet has on it is probably not the effect it will have on other organizations.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 18, 2019 11:42:16 GMT
IMO people leaving the churches might not be such a bad thing, as long as they don't leave God.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 18, 2019 11:46:08 GMT
IMO people leaving the churches might not be such a bad thing, as long as they don't leave God. Good point.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 18, 2019 12:00:09 GMT
It was never a very large church. The effect the internet has on it is probably not the effect it will have on other organizations. I do be willing to bet that Mormon Church is still not losing membership as fast as non-Mormon Churches are losing membership. Do you have anything of value to add to the topic? The statistics prove that Churches are losing memberships (in western countries). I am not one of those who feel very delighted by such facts. Though I do like to understand why things like these happen. There may be many reasons why such a thing is happening. I say greater availability of information as proposed by the OP is definitely a factor. There could be other factors too. Lots of allegations and even convictions of Church officials (Catholics for example). Though that too ties to greater availability of information. Another reason could be greater urbanization. Even the small towns have started to have cultures like you ordinarily see in the metros. The fixation with TV, video and Mobile phones means people lost a sense of community as in traditional sense. The fast life and betterment of our homes mean that we have far more comfortable lives in our homes and that's why we feel spoiled and we don't want to go out. These are just a few reasons.....
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Post by geode on Jan 18, 2019 12:10:13 GMT
IMO people leaving the churches might not be such a bad thing, as long as they don't leave God. This is what happened to me.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 18, 2019 12:22:36 GMT
It was never a very large church. The effect the internet has on it is probably not the effect it will have on other organizations. I do be willing to bet that Mormon Church is still not losing membership as fast as non-Mormon Churches are losing membership. Do you have anything of value to add to the topic?The statistics prove that Churches are losing memberships (in western countries). I am not one of those who feel very delighted by such facts. Though I do like to understand why things like these happen. There may be many reasons why such a thing is happening. I say greater availability of information as proposed by the OP is definitely a factor. There could be other factors too. Lots of allegations and even convictions of Church officials (Catholics for example). Though that too ties to greater availability of information. Another reason could be greater urbanization. Even the small towns have started to have cultures like you ordinarily see in the metros. The fixation with TV, video and Mobile phones means people lost a sense of community as in traditional sense. The fast life and betterment of our homes mean that we have far more comfortable lives in our homes and that's why we feel spoiled and we don't want to go out. These are just a few reasons..... Yes, I believe it is critically important to distinguish between religious membership and religious attendance. Yes, people are watching more TV, but there are religious networks, sponsored religious broadcasts, and mainstream programming with religious themes. There are plenty of religious radio broadcasts. Perhaps they shouldn't, but people are considering themselves "religious" members without attending or directly financially supporting an organized religion, but following their broadcasts. Others here have posted figures that atheists are less well educated, earn less money, have higher divorce rates and so on than religious people with the only exception of "Christians." While all those things are indeed more "popular" lately, many atheists are beginning to consider a religious journey starting at the internet/local library. It seems you could have guessed that.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 18, 2019 12:45:28 GMT
I do be willing to bet that Mormon Church is still not losing membership as fast as non-Mormon Churches are losing membership. Do you have anything of value to add to the topic?The statistics prove that Churches are losing memberships (in western countries). I am not one of those who feel very delighted by such facts. Though I do like to understand why things like these happen. There may be many reasons why such a thing is happening. I say greater availability of information as proposed by the OP is definitely a factor. There could be other factors too. Lots of allegations and even convictions of Church officials (Catholics for example). Though that too ties to greater availability of information. Another reason could be greater urbanization. Even the small towns have started to have cultures like you ordinarily see in the metros. The fixation with TV, video and Mobile phones means people lost a sense of community as in traditional sense. The fast life and betterment of our homes mean that we have far more comfortable lives in our homes and that's why we feel spoiled and we don't want to go out. These are just a few reasons..... Yes, I believe it is critically important to distinguish between religious membership and religious attendance. Yes, people are watching more TV, but there are religious networks, sponsored religious broadcasts, and mainstream programming with religious themes. There are plenty of religious radio broadcasts. Perhaps they shouldn't, but people are considering themselves "religious" members without attending or directly financially supporting an organized religion, but following their broadcasts. Others here have posted figures that atheists are less well educated, earn less money, have higher divorce rates and so on than religious people with the only exception of "Christians." While all those things are indeed more "popular" lately, many atheists are beginning to consider a religious journey starting at the internet/local library. It seems you could have guessed that. I am not convinced that the average Church attendance has decreased but the average religiosity has not. If the general level of religiosity has not fallen then why do we see ever so increasing number of people calling themselves non-religious in various surveys? I do not believe that the absolute number of non-denominational people has increased enough to compensate for the decline of religion among masses. I also do not believe that atheists are less well educated or earn less money than the religious if you do not count Christians among the religious. I have no problems in believing you that it possible that the divorce rates of atheists may be greater than the divorce rates of religious folks. I think only Jews and Hindus in USA may be more educated and earning more than atheists. But both groups together account for only 2% of the US population. I have no data for any other country to base any comparison. The question is can Churches or non-denominational theists do anything to increase the interest of masses in religion or spirituality? Or is better and wiser for the Churches and non-denominational theists to not do anything about the issue in the first place?
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Post by Rodney Farber on Jan 18, 2019 15:06:53 GMT
LDS and JWs (and others, too) believe and preach that theirs is the one true religion. Why, then, do they manipulate with great perseverance and usually with considerable effort toward converting the weak-minded to follow them into eternity? One would think the masses would be beating a path to their place of worship.
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Post by Vegas on Jan 18, 2019 15:41:09 GMT
Hell... So is this board.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 18, 2019 16:05:29 GMT
Not being guided to religion by churches may turn into a good thing for many seekers. Less external propaganda, less coercion, and more freedom. More ability to make your own interpretation.
But it could also mean straying away from the main teachings of religion, entering into dangerous versions of religion and lack of good advisors when you need one. I remember the posters like Sailor-J and that awful crytoalmighty. Crytoalmighty or cry-to-the-prince-of-price shunned the traditional schools but his own version of religion was extremely dangerous. Even ErJen had to call him a troll poster or puppet.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Jan 18, 2019 17:50:38 GMT
If people don't attend church - even if they retain a spiritual belief themselves - the structure isn't there to get their children to believe. So in a generation or so the number of believers will plumit...
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 18, 2019 20:29:22 GMT
Fortunately church membership numbers have no bearing on Godly approval.
If a church can’t survive then it shouldn’t survive just like any other organization.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 18, 2019 20:32:24 GMT
IMO people leaving the churches might not be such a bad thing, as long as they don't leave God. Any one or just that which you believe in as part of your culture?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 18, 2019 20:51:19 GMT
IMO people leaving the churches might not be such a bad thing, as long as they don't leave God. Any one or just that which you believe in as part of your culture? Any one.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 18, 2019 20:55:42 GMT
Any one or just that which you believe in as part of your culture? Any one. Loki will always be close to my heart.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 18, 2019 21:00:34 GMT
I blame Fortnite
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Post by goz on Jan 18, 2019 22:15:42 GMT
Fortunately church membership numbers have no bearing on Godly approval.If a church can’t survive then it shouldn’t survive just like any other organization. I am curious. What is 'Godly approval' and how is it assessed?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 18, 2019 22:41:15 GMT
Fortunately church membership numbers have no bearing on Godly approval.If a church can’t survive then it shouldn’t survive just like any other organization. I am curious. What is 'Godly approval' and how is it assessed? well godly approval is self explanatory and the best way to learn about it is to read the Bible.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 18, 2019 22:46:31 GMT
LDS and JWs (and others, too) believe and preach that theirs is the one true religion. Why, then, do they manipulate with great perseverance and usually with considerable effort toward converting the weak-minded to follow them into eternity? One would think the masses would be beating a path to their place of worship. You could pretend to make the same illogical argument with Jesus himself. There has rarely been a time in history that people choose the harder way. That’s said they probably are growing just like any organization that advertises tends to see growth.
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