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Post by geode on Feb 10, 2019 15:06:22 GMT
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 10, 2019 16:26:11 GMT
Yes, and having read the full article, I wish someone would develop a similar ad to target any and all religions. They all have a hidden agenda, and why not fight fire with fire?
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Post by Isapop on Feb 10, 2019 16:30:36 GMT
I don't see anything really wrong here. No one is being lied to. Most importantly, the reader is directed to an article on the LDS site, written by their own scholars. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 10, 2019 18:58:57 GMT
I’m not sure why it’s deceptive beyond normal marketing.
That said, people should be able to know their faiths history and learn how to defend it if they feel it needs defending.
As usual it’s kinda silly for people outside the Mormon Church to “care” so much but there’s always been those kind of people.
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Post by geode on Feb 11, 2019 4:03:32 GMT
I’m not sure why it’s deceptive beyond normal marketing. That said, people should be able to know their faiths history and learn how to defend it if they feel it needs defending. As usual it’s kinda silly for people outside the Mormon Church to “care” so much but there’s always been those kind of people. Is not "normal" marketing deceptive? The probable next president of the Mormon church just declared that members should not do research about troublesome questions. Dallin Oaks link |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 11, 2019 4:56:46 GMT
Why wouldn't it be? I mean, I realize you're not exactly an authority on "morals", but can you actually think of an argument that would make shaking the faith of a family that shuns an individual a bad thing? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 11, 2019 5:19:37 GMT
I’m not sure why it’s deceptive beyond normal marketing. That said, people should be able to know their faiths history and learn how to defend it if they feel it needs defending. As usual it’s kinda silly for people outside the Mormon Church to “care” so much but there’s always been those kind of people. Is not "normal" marketing deceptive? The probable next president of the Mormon church just declared that members should not do research about troublesome questions. Dallin Oaks linkI don;t think of marketing as deceptive. It's more akin to exaggerating. While I do think it's important to not dwell on the past and especially when a religion learns from its mistakes, it should never be erased. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 11, 2019 5:37:50 GMT
Yes, and having read the full article, I wish someone would develop a similar ad to target any and all religions. They all have a hidden agenda, and why not fight fire with fire?  |
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Post by geode on Feb 11, 2019 9:34:47 GMT
Is not "normal" marketing deceptive? The probable next president of the Mormon church just declared that members should not do research about troublesome questions. Dallin Oaks linkI don;t think of marketing as deceptive. It's more akin to exaggerating. While I do think it's important to not dwell on the past and especially when a religion learns from its mistakes, it should never be erased. I would say some marketing is straight-out forward and honest, some is exaggerated, some is deceptive, and some is false and very dishonest. Placing ads that almost everyone would perceive as going to the usual pro-Mormon sites that actually takes one to a site where difficult and controversial topics are discussed, even if buried in the official LDS site, involves deception. The "General Topic Essays" hardly tell the whole and complete truth. They tackle some aspects of controversial topics and totally ignore others. They basically tell half truths instead of completely admitting errors or mistakes. But has the LDS church learned from its mistakes? In some cases at least partially, in other cases not at all. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 11, 2019 11:52:20 GMT
I don;t think of marketing as deceptive. It's more akin to exaggerating. While I do think it's important to not dwell on the past and especially when a religion learns from its mistakes, it should never be erased. I would say some marketing is straight-out forward and honest, some is exaggerated, some is deceptive, and some is false and very dishonest. Placing ads that almost everyone would perceive as going to the usual pro-Mormon sites that actually takes one to a site where difficult and controversial topics are discussed, even if buried in the official LDS site, involves deception. The "General Topic Essays" hardly tell the whole and complete truth. They tackle some aspects of controversial topics and totally ignore others. They basically tell half truths instead of completely admitting errors or mistakes. But has the LDS church learned from its mistakes? In some cases at least partially, in other cases not at all. Honestly, I don't understand why Mormons would have ads going to their people in the first place. However, I say again that people should be able to defend their faith from basic attacks and if they can't they should either question their knowledge level or the accuracy of the teachings, Apostates aren't exactly hard to figure out in any religious organization. After all, they can only pretend so far before they risk losing their purpose of drawing people away from the church they beloged to but now despise. |
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Feb 11, 2019 13:32:48 GMT
Well, it's a good question. Why does an entire religion choose to follow the words or a known conman who was into underage girls?
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Post by Isapop on Feb 11, 2019 13:56:44 GMT
Then it's a deception far worse than any that those apostate ad placers may be committing.If so, we should ask, "Is deception ALWAYS bad?" If I market raisins to children in a candy looking kind of package, is that the kind of deception anyone should criticize? |
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Post by geode on Feb 11, 2019 14:26:37 GMT
I would say some marketing is straight-out forward and honest, some is exaggerated, some is deceptive, and some is false and very dishonest. Placing ads that almost everyone would perceive as going to the usual pro-Mormon sites that actually takes one to a site where difficult and controversial topics are discussed, even if buried in the official LDS site, involves deception. The "General Topic Essays" hardly tell the whole and complete truth. They tackle some aspects of controversial topics and totally ignore others. They basically tell half truths instead of completely admitting errors or mistakes. But has the LDS church learned from its mistakes? In some cases at least partially, in other cases not at all. Honestly, I don't understand why Mormons would have ads going to their people in the first place. However, I say again that people should be able to defend their faith from basic attacks and if they can't they should either question their knowledge level or the accuracy of the teachings, Apostates aren't exactly hard to figure out in any religious organization. After all, they can only pretend so far before they risk losing their purpose of drawing people away from the church they beloged to but now despise. The official LDS church does not have ads aimed at their own members. The ads that this fellow emulated would have been sites unaffiliated with the church run by members that are TBMs with just about 100% favorable content to the church. Your second paragraph sounds as if you didn't read the Dallin Oaks' link I posted. There are very few "apostates" from the Mormon church trying to draw people away that are not openly admitting their status. |
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Post by geode on Feb 11, 2019 14:31:30 GMT
Then it's a deception far worse than any that those apostate ad placers may be committing.If so, we should ask, "Is deception ALWAYS bad?" If I market raisins to children in a candy looking kind of package, is that the kind of deception anyone should criticize? In terms of potential impact upon people the deceptions of the LDS church are probably far more serious than those by people who have left the church unless they too distort the true history and beliefs. No, deception can have its merits. Intelligence organizations such as the CIA must rely upon such from time to time. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 11, 2019 16:13:40 GMT
Honestly, I don't understand why Mormons would have ads going to their people in the first place. However, I say again that people should be able to defend their faith from basic attacks and if they can't they should either question their knowledge level or the accuracy of the teachings, Apostates aren't exactly hard to figure out in any religious organization. After all, they can only pretend so far before they risk losing their purpose of drawing people away from the church they beloged to but now despise. The official LDS church does not have ads aimed at their own members. The ads that this fellow emulated would have been sites unaffiliated with the church run by members that are TBMs with just about 100% favorable content to the church. Your second paragraph sounds as if you didn't read the Dallin Oaks' link I posted. There are very few "apostates" from the Mormon church trying to draw people away that are not openly admitting their status. I read it I just don’t think there is an apostate rule book and it is a common tactic for apostates to pretend they are legit and will even honestly think that while saying their church is the one that’s false. One of the goals is to turn their families in order to talk to them again and I imagine people will go through a lot of lengths to get their family back even if it’s them that separated from the family. |
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Post by thefleetsin on Feb 11, 2019 16:30:41 GMT
encouraging enormous family values
i use such terms
as
breeding like flies
in
an attempt to squelch any
and all doubts
as to
the enormous impact
that
tens of millions of
darker complected individuals
has
on a society
so intertwined in bogus forms of bigotry
that the only
truly pressing need
is for them to see
the
darkest of browns
when
everywhere starts to bleed.
sjw 02/11/19 inspired at this very moment in time by what's that you say.
from the 'bigot series' of poems
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Post by Isapop on Feb 11, 2019 18:30:19 GMT
One of the goals is to turn their families in order to talk to them again and I imagine people will go through a lot of lengths to get their family back even if it’s them that separated from the family.These people do not separate from their families, and have no desire to. They separate from their religion, and face the consequence of being shunned by their families at the bidding of that religion. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 11, 2019 18:33:41 GMT
One of the goals is to turn their families in order to talk to them again and I imagine people will go through a lot of lengths to get their family back even if it’s them that separated from the family.These people do not separate from their families, and have no desire to. They separate from their religion, and face the consequence of being shunned by their families at the bidding of that religion. of course they do. They agreed to the terms of membership and felt freedom from teaching trumped freedom to talk to family...at least until they miss them. |
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Post by Isapop on Feb 11, 2019 18:47:46 GMT
These people do not separate from their families, and have no desire to. They separate from their religion, and face the consequence of being shunned by their families at the bidding of that religion. of course they do. They agreed to the terms of membership and felt freedom from teaching trumped freedom to talk to family...at least until they miss them. How much thought they gave to the consequences of leaving the religion is irrelevant here. (Most people will enter a religion as they do a marriage: thinking they would never leave.) As much as you'd rather try to paint it differently (and some of us here understand why), it was their religion that they wanted to leave, and not their families. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 11, 2019 19:41:01 GMT
of course they do. They agreed to the terms of membership and felt freedom from teaching trumped freedom to talk to family...at least until they miss them. How much thought they gave to the consequences of leaving the religion is irrelevant here. (Most people will enter a religion as they do a marriage: thinking they would never leave.) As much as you'd rather try to paint it differently (and some of us here understand why), it was their religion that they wanted to leave, and not their families. [i agree their thought process is irrelevant to their known action. At the end of the day they chose to leave a religion that had a rule they were aware of that painted them a danger to the faithful part of their family- ironically something the church is correct about based on the action of the apostate. To be clear I am not labeling them as bad people so no need to think of this in negative terms. They simply don’t think enough of the family bond unless it is to split the family from their beliefs. Is that not what they are doing in this article? Enlighten me.😊 |
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