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Post by Aj_June on Mar 19, 2019 9:39:45 GMT
In the manifesto Tarrant said he had 'little interest in education' and 'did not attend University as I had no great interest in anything offered in the Universities to study'. I will not be making any generalisation when I say that the attitude of people in some of the most developed countries towards education is extremely worrying. I did my masters from a reputed university from the UK and found very few British people in my class. I think the reason for that is the extremely good existing economy of UK (and likewise of US and Australia etc). So people do not have to put a lot of effort into getting any specialised education. Even the unskilled jobs in these countries pay you very well. What I found in my stay in UK and Australia was that the vast majority of people work very hard for 5 days and then drink and have night outs in the weekend in some pub or bar and this cycle continues forever and forever. Education is not deemed as important as in countries where people have limited resources and need to educate themselves if they are seeking a life of much higher quality. Some of that is understandable as the need is the primary driver of anything but it seems to me that some of the developed countries have created a culture that sort of ignores the value of education. We should remember that education not only benefits the people who get educated but also the society at large. So it is a case where total benefits is more than the sum of the parts. Eventually, the world economy will even out in the long run and then the existing attitude of the people of developed countries could create problems for them in the future.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 19, 2019 11:14:46 GMT
College is overrated.
One can become educated without paying someone to tell them what to think.
Universities are good specifically for career development as grads tend to make more in a white collar environment, but it's too expensive (in the States at least) for mind expansion when decent libraries can accomplish the same thing if people convinced themselves that books are great.
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Post by politicidal on Mar 19, 2019 17:48:53 GMT
Case in point: Lori Loughlin's bratty daughter.
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Post by goz on Mar 20, 2019 22:06:13 GMT
College is overrated. One can become educated without paying someone to tell them what to think. Universities are good specifically for career development as grads tend to make more in a white collar environment, but it's too expensive (in the States at least) for mind expansion when decent libraries can accomplish the same thing if people convinced themselves that books are great. It seems you are a case in point. Good education teaches students how not what, to think. For one, I agree with the OP and I am appalled at some of the anti-intellectualism exhibited by some of the Americans posting on this Board.
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Post by goz on Mar 20, 2019 22:10:25 GMT
I totally agree.
Anti-intellectualism, scepticism, ignorance and arrogance are the enemies of civilisation.
I am appalled by some of the anti-intellectualism exhibited on these Boards by some posters.
I also agree that a tertiary education is sometimes viewed as a right in the modern Western countries that you mention and not something to be earned and achieved by diligence, application and effort.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 20, 2019 23:44:59 GMT
College is overrated. One can become educated without paying someone to tell them what to think. Universities are good specifically for career development as grads tend to make more in a white collar environment, but it's too expensive (in the States at least) for mind expansion when decent libraries can accomplish the same thing if people convinced themselves that books are great. It seems you are a case in point. Good education teaches students how not what, to think. For one, I agree with the OP and I am appalled at some of the anti-intellectualism exhibited by some of the Americans posting on this Board. I am a case in point as a college grad. I know what it's about. If a person doesn't know how to think by the time they are in the college, they have likely lost the chance and are probably sitting around smoking pot and watching Family Guy.
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Post by goz on Mar 21, 2019 1:33:19 GMT
It seems you are a case in point. Good education teaches students how not what, to think. For one, I agree with the OP and I am appalled at some of the anti-intellectualism exhibited by some of the Americans posting on this Board. I am a case in point as a college grad. I know what it's about. If a person doesn't know how to think by the time they are in the college, they have likely lost the chance and are probably sitting around smoking pot and watching Family Guy. I totally disagree. You claimed that college/university teaches people what to think. If they haven't developed critical thinking skills by college than there is no hope for them, not the reverse.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 21, 2019 23:56:18 GMT
I can't speak for NZ but the education system in the UK is piss poor. Comprehensive schools are underfunded, universities are expensive, graduate jobs are far from abundant, support for poor students and parents is minimal. It's an elitist system, geared around the middle class and dominated by academics with decidedly middle class sensibilities. The system is failing people, creating a system where education is hard to attain and barely seems worth the effort to many. No wonder it breeds ambivalence.
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Post by goz on Mar 22, 2019 0:20:40 GMT
I can't speak for NZ but the education system in the UK is piss poor. Comprehensive schools are underfunded, universities are expensive, graduate jobs are far from abundant, support for poor students and parents is minimal. It's an elitist system, geared around the middle class and dominated by academics with decidedly middle class sensibilities. The system is failing people, creating a system where education is hard to attain and barely seems worth the effort to many. No wonder it breeds ambivalence. That is both inestimably sad and frightening. I was brought up to think that education was the most important thing to achieve.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 22, 2019 0:28:18 GMT
Is it true a lot of people in northern English dislike the southern part, thinking of them as educated elitist/snobs (essentially the opposite of the US)? BTW the reason a lot of Americans don't bother with college is the absurd tuition costs. Even if you become a doctor, you might not even really be able to enjoy your huge salary as you'll be paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan unless of course you come from a rich family that will pay for it.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 22, 2019 0:47:22 GMT
Is it true a lot of people in northern English dislike the southern part, thinking of them as educated elitist/snobs (essentially the opposite of the US)? True to an extent yes - so much funding goes to London compared to everywhere else in England, particularly the north which suffered the most from Thatcherism. The Brexit vote is quite illustrative of this distinction - London was the only part of England that voted for Remain.
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 22, 2019 2:06:22 GMT
I can't speak for NZ but the education system in the UK is piss poor. Comprehensive schools are underfunded, universities are expensive, graduate jobs are far from abundant, support for poor students and parents is minimal. It's an elitist system, geared around the middle class and dominated by academics with decidedly middle class sensibilities. The system is failing people, creating a system where education is hard to attain and barely seems worth the effort to many. No wonder it breeds ambivalence. I do like to point out that countries like UK and US have cultural issues. The people of these countries do not save enough money. There is no culture of saving. They rank dead last in personal saving rates and very high in consumption. Countries like China, Singapore and even poorer countries like Bangladesh have culture of saving money. A large survey found out that only about 19% American households save money for educational purposes whereas 59% Chinese households do. It is a bit strange for us to believe that so many Americans have so much financial problem when it comes to education whereas people of poorer countries do not have so much problem. As I said in my initial post the western society is a very strong consumption based society and that is one of the reasons they do not pay much attention to education.
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 22, 2019 2:10:01 GMT
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 22, 2019 2:30:44 GMT
College is overrated. One can become educated without paying someone to tell them what to think. Universities are good specifically for career development as grads tend to make more in a white collar environment, but it's too expensive (in the States at least) for mind expansion when decent libraries can accomplish the same thing if people convinced themselves that books are great. It seems you are a case in point. Good education teaches students how not what, to think. For one, I agree with the OP and I am appalled at some of the anti-intellectualism exhibited by some of the Americans posting on this Board. "Good education teaches students how not what, to think."
Exactly. You couldn't have used better words. And it is also the lack of education that causes so many people to believe in absurd conspiracy theories and straightaway disbelieve scientists when it comes to matter such as global climate change and evolution.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 22, 2019 7:34:00 GMT
Countries like China, Singapore and even poorer countries like Bangladesh have culture of saving money. Unfortunately though the global economy is based on consumption, people have to consume to avoid recession (paradox of thrift). China is the country with the world's highest net export rate, USA has the world's highest import rate. UK has the second highest. If Americans and Brits consumed less, other countries would have to consume more. There are of course cultural differences that cause issues too but there is certainly more that could be done by governments to counteract these problems. A properly funded education and welfare system would go a long way.
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 22, 2019 7:44:06 GMT
Countries like China, Singapore and even poorer countries like Bangladesh have culture of saving money. Unfortunately though the global economy is based on consumption, people have to consume to avoid recession (paradox of thrift). China is the country with the world's highest net export rate, USA has the world's highest import rate. UK has the second highest. If Americans and Brits consumed less, other countries would have to consume more. There are of course cultural differences that cause issues too but there is certainly more that could be done by governments to counteract these problems. A properly funded education and welfare system would go a long way. What you are saying is of course true but the level of consumption relative to savings is far too higher in the US than it maybe good. Consumption is not bad in itself but overindulging in immediate consumption on a very high scale may not be good. The culture of saving very less money is one of the reasons that may add to the problems of people in western countries. Yes, government and systems may also be big players in the problem regarding why many western youngsters do not go for higher education.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 22, 2019 11:21:18 GMT
Unfortunately though the global economy is based on consumption, people have to consume to avoid recession (paradox of thrift). China is the country with the world's highest net export rate, USA has the world's highest import rate. UK has the second highest. If Americans and Brits consumed less, other countries would have to consume more. There are of course cultural differences that cause issues too but there is certainly more that could be done by governments to counteract these problems. A properly funded education and welfare system would go a long way. What you are saying is of course true but the level of consumption relative to savings is far too higher in the US than it maybe good. Consumption is not bad in itself but overindulging in immediate consumption on a very high scale may not be good. The culture of saving very less money is one of the reasons that may add to the problems of people in western countries. Yes, government and systems may also be big players in the problem regarding why many western youngsters do not go for higher education. It would be interesting to compare the level of advertising children are exposed to in countries that rely on high consumerism (like USA and UK) compared to ones that rely on high production (like China).
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