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Post by drystyx on Apr 7, 2019 16:02:11 GMT
The movie is horribly mistitled. The contents of the movie, as shown, Jesse James as a psycho, a raving lunatic, who does everything he can to push a naïve young man into killing him.
The viewer can only surmise that the title "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford" was intended as a façade.
Now, I'm not saying the real Jesse James was a psycho, although killing people is indicative of such a personality, and I'm not saying Robert Ford wasn't a coward.
Just saying the movie depicted Robert Ford as a naïve young man who idolized Jesse James. Yet all through the movie, Jesse does everything he can to mold Robert into his own assassin.
In fact, the very end, when he does the famous historical picture adjustment, the director obviously intends for us to think Jesse is staging this as his own assassination. He has carefully groomed a scared young fan into murdering him.
The "Jesse" of this movie is a lunatic, who plays God, quite arbitrarily. His only motivation is playing God.
It's a thoroughly modern approach that doesn't hold much credibility for late nineteenth century practicality.
Sure, Jesse knows he's in the newspapers, but news didn't get around as fast as it does today, not even as fast as it did 50 years ago.
The mobster of today has a global approach, and global dominance. Jesse was an outlaw, not a modern day mobster. His world was pretty confined. No matter how conceited he might get, we know he did have a sense of reality, or he would have been killed or captured on his first robbery.
Still, it's an original approach. It's a bit dull, lackluster, and outdated, but it's not a flop. It's outdated in the true sense. Many of the inferior intellects here misuse the word. A movie can't be outdated if it stays true to the historical character of the characters. It's outdated when a movie shows George Washington saying "one of these days, we'll have a sixteenth president named Abe who will keep this country together and be assassinated." That's "outdated", because it never stayed true to "historical character That's the only way a movie can ever be "dated".
The Ford brothers come across authentic enough. The James brothers don't.
That's what we get in this movie, although not as poorly as in the pathetic "Tombstone", which was an embarrassment to anyone involved in it, a movie so dedicated to Beavis and Butthead fans that it begins with a few outlaws easily wiping out an entire Mexican platoon. Of course, there are mental midgets here who applaud that pile of garbage.
However, THE ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES BY THE COWARD ROBERT FORD doesn't get that ignorant. It does defy historical character, though. You can't watch the movie and believe some of the characters (Jesse in particular) are nineteenth century people. They come across as modern day actors in authentic costumes and scenery just doing their lines between visits to the spa or arcade or ball game.
I'm a tough grader, so my 5/10 rating isn't as bad as it would be from others. It merely means it's a mediocre movie, suffering mostly from a misleading title.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 8, 2019 1:09:42 GMT
The movie is horribly mistitled. Title for me surmises the attempted character assassination of JJ by Ford, which turned out a massive failure for him. JJ's lore was simply too popular to overcome. The film would easily make my top 100.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 8, 2019 1:27:13 GMT
Jesse James is shown to be a terrible person in the movie, but that doesn't mean Robert Ford wasn't a weak little weasel who killed Jesse James because he didn't turn out to be the man he imagined in his sycophantic dreams. That and the paranoia that Jesse James was eventually going to kill him and his brother too.
I have always seen the title as implying how the public felt about Robert Ford after killing Jesse James. The movie shows that the public hated him for killing a legend just so he could be remembered in history as the man who killed a legend because he was too pathetic to be remembered for anything else. They saw him as a coward.
The movie portrays both of them were very disturbed people in their own ways.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 8, 2019 1:27:43 GMT
The title is a reference to the cultural perceptions of the two men and meant to be ironic by the film's end.
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Post by jcush on Apr 8, 2019 1:29:23 GMT
Jesse James is shown to be a terrible person in the movie, but that doesn't mean Robert Ford wasn't a weak little weasel who killed Jesse James because he didn't turn out to be the man he imagined in his sycophantic dreams. That and the paranoia that Jesse James was eventually going to kill him and his brother too. I have always seen the title as implying how the public felt about Robert Ford after killing Jesse James. The movie shows that the public hated him for killing a legend just so he could be remembered in history as the man who killed a legend because he was too pathetic to be remembered for anything else. They saw him as a coward. The movie portrays both of them were very disturbed people in their own ways. That's what I think too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 1:47:42 GMT
Worst analysis I've heard.
Easily a top 25 film of the past 20 years.
As others have stated, the title is purposely given as the perception of society.
The film has many themes, hero worship in America. Never meet your hero, you'll be disappointed.
James was no hero, just a flawed man with an agenda. Bob was no coward, just a young naive man who wanted to be a sidekick and join the adventures of the dime store James.
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Post by them1ghtyhumph on Apr 8, 2019 2:12:13 GMT
Never saw it.
I'll take The Long Riders version
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 14:33:56 GMT
The title is a reference to the cultural perceptions of the two men and meant to be ironic by the film's end. Well said Great great film . I wish the director would direct more films.
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Post by drystyx on Apr 8, 2019 14:52:21 GMT
The title is a reference to the cultural perceptions of the two men and meant to be ironic by the film's end. That's the trouble. The title merely applauds this. It's an epic fail, and the one who insisted on the title knew it was an epic fail. It's similar to making a movie where the mob is unbeatable, and mobsters always win. In placating the idea of certain people being demi gods and others being cannon fodder, you are not fighting that idea, but assisting it. You merely aid the mob in making that movie, and you know it. Those who say different are liars. Same with the title here. In 50 years, you know that if it is pushed the way it is pushed, that it becomes the accepted "fact", whether it's a fact or not. And everyone pushing it does so with the sole intention of establishing that idea. The "perceptions" of the two men isn't the movie. Only one of the two has any "motivation". There is not one iota of "motivation" in Jesse, unless it's totally psycho. He purposely grooms the young fan to be his killer. He purposely picks and chooses at random what to believe anyone else thinks, and makes it all up. He's a modern day sicko. The problem with the depiction of Jesse is that it isn't credible, unless he's totally insane. Today, such a character has ideology wherein he thinks he's a god, because he can travel the world and see anything, within seconds, without leaving his room. Jesse had to either make his own bread or travel a long distance to get his bread, or wait for someone to fetch it, in which case it may come back days later, or never. While that makes it easier for the bubble boys of today to think they identify with that, or empathize with that, it's totally ridiculous, and only proves such fans are in cubicles, with grand delusions. It's totally out of touch with any reality and out of touch with people who aren't out of touch with reality. Thus, the title is poor. The movie is mediocre.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 8, 2019 18:44:58 GMT
The title is a reference to the cultural perceptions of the two men and meant to be ironic by the film's end. The "perceptions" of the two men isn't the movie. Disagreed. Robert Ford, like a lot of people today, look at Jesse James and the gun-slinging West with romanticized fondness. Then when he meets him, he finds out this murderous criminal is no Robin Hood. Ford, meanwhile, is deemed a coward for shooting his friend in the back, but again, we find James was no friend and even himself shoots men in the back. The movie is all about their perceptions. |
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 8, 2019 23:31:55 GMT
The "perceptions" of the two men isn't the movie. Disagreed. Robert Ford, like a lot of people today, look at Jesse James and the gun-slinging West with romanticized fondness. Then when he meets him, he finds out this murderous criminal is no Robin Hood. Ford, meanwhile, is deemed a coward for shooting his friend in the back, but again, we find James was no friend and even himself shoots men in the back.
The movie is all about their perceptions. Well said and I completely agree.
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Post by drystyx on Apr 8, 2019 23:47:46 GMT
Disagreed. Robert Ford, like a lot of people today, look at Jesse James and the gun-slinging West with romanticized fondness. Then when he meets him, he finds out this murderous criminal is no Robin Hood. Ford, meanwhile, is deemed a coward for shooting his friend in the back, but again, we find James was no friend and even himself shoots men in the back. The movie is all about their perceptions. Well said. Drystyx sees movies much differently than most people. Often unable to pick up on the complexities and nuances of many movies. I should pity your inferior mind, but while your ignorance is excusable, your self righteousness and jealousy isn't excusable. I'm way over you in seeing complexities, as my posts prove. I don't know if you're really that ignorant, or if you are just in denial. You either don't see the real issue, or don't want to. The fact that you blindly agree with anyone just to target me, proves you're either a sock puppet or a moron. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and figure you're just a sock puppet of Brad. Otherwise, you'd be even more pathetic. Just remember, you began this with your lies and false accusations. You want to go there, then prepare to be humiliated before the public, no matter how many sock puppets and fellow crack heads you get to agree with you. You'll only look more ignorant. Now, the movie. As I said before, there is absolutely no credible motivation for Jesse James in the movie. None. He's simply insane, arbitrarily being some God without a cause, with all decisions arbitrary, like being picked from a jar of decisions. And it makes no sense for his era, unless he's totally out of touch with reality, in which case he'd have been killed or capture on his first or second robbery. There just isn't any way around that. I've pointed this out, and that's not a "complexity". Now, go cry home to your mommy.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 8, 2019 23:58:29 GMT
Well said. Drystyx sees movies much differently than most people. Often unable to pick up on the complexities and nuances of many movies. I should pity your inferior mind, but while your ignorance is excusable, your self righteousness and jealousy isn't excusable. I'm way over you in seeing complexities, as my posts prove. I don't know if you're really that ignorant, or if you are just in denial. You either don't see the real issue, or don't want to. The fact that you blindly agree with anyone just to target me, proves you're either a sock puppet or a moron. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and figure you're just a sock puppet of Brad. Otherwise, you'd be even more pathetic. Just remember, you began this with your lies and false accusations. You want to go there, then prepare to be humiliated before the public, no matter how many sock puppets and fellow crack heads you get to agree with you. You'll only look more ignorant. Now, the movie. As I said before, there is absolutely no credible motivation for Jesse James in the movie. None. He's simply insane, arbitrarily being some God without a cause, with all decisions arbitrary, like being picked from a jar of decisions. And it makes no sense for his era, unless he's totally out of touch with reality, in which case he'd have been killed or capture on his first or second robbery. There just isn't any way around that. I've pointed this out, and that's not a "complexity". Now, go cry home to your mommy. I agree with most other people only when it comes to you because I see you the same way you see me, ignorant. I would argue with what you say but I don't see the point. You have shown that no matter what people say that disagrees with your opinion you never waver. You never give anybody an inch of wiggle room. I did edit my response you will notice, because I realized that attacking you was immature and I was just doing it out of my own frustration with you. I try not to pay you any mind, but when I disagree with you so vigorously I have a hard time holding back. I hope you have a nice day. Jesse James is not insane. Insane means you are completely out of touch with reality. The movie shows him as having many shades to his personality, some good and many bad. This is the way with human beings in general. We all have the terrible parts deep inside and the good sides of us and the degrees of each vary from person to person. His motivation is money and rebellion and the motivations of many of his actions are out of fear, distrust, anger and sadness. He is not insane, he is just disturbed. I believe he suffers from existential angst more than anything. Movies aren't meant to be fact. They are artistic interpretations of events and characters that are meant to provoke deep thoughts and emotions from the viewer that can make the viewer a better more thoughtful person. That is the power of art.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 9, 2019 0:01:36 GMT
The "perceptions" of the two men isn't the movie. Disagreed. Robert Ford, like a lot of people today, look at Jesse James and the gun-slinging West with romanticized fondness. Then when he meets him, he finds out this murderous criminal is no Robin Hood. Ford, meanwhile, is deemed a coward for shooting his friend in the back, but again, we find James was no friend and even himself shoots men in the back. The movie is all about their perceptions. The assassination scene is one of my favorite scenes of the decade. It shows that neither Robert or his brother are proud of what they are about to do and that Jesse James knows what is coming and turns his back thinking that will make it easier for them to kill him. I believe Jesse James is not proud of most of what he has done and he is shown as a very broken man throughout the movie and he accepts his fate because of this. The there is the very melancholy way the scene is shot and scored which just emphasizes so much more how sad and scary human nature and human existence is. That is just my take.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 9, 2019 0:29:16 GMT
Am I in "denial" about certain things? Of course I am.
I consciously ignore certain aspects of humanity in order to maintain my sanity and a shred of happiness. I am already a very depressed anxiety ridden paranoid obsessive compulsive who can barely function in reality.
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Post by Vits on Apr 4, 2020 21:27:38 GMT
8/10
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