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Post by Marv on Apr 30, 2019 11:55:05 GMT
Betraying her deal for the Unsullied. Torturing the nobles of Mereen (or wherever). Burning captives alive. Didn’t she feed someone to her dragon in season 5 too? I mean these thing for the most part are cool because we hate the slavers but they aren’t exactly honorable acts. She didn;t betray the deal. She gave a dragon for the Unsullied and then she invaded the city. They probably should have added peace treaty to the deal. She was not duplicitous in feeding someone to her dragon. She was punishing someone she thought was an enemy. She punishes people all the time with dragons. It's no different than beheadings or any other form of execution "honorable" men do. Perhaps I should’ve used the term dishonorable rather than shady. But I think you’re doing mental gymnastics not to consider what she did to get the Unsullied a doublecross. I’m not even using it to fault her character. It makes her far more interesting...but it shows just a taste of the lengths she’s willing to go to. My point about the punishment by dragons is it seems needlessly cruel. Like...I need to euthanize my old dog I can either give it an overdose of sleeping pills or beat it to death with a claw hammer. To me that’s the difference between beheading and feeding people to dragons. In the end both are dead but one method seems far more cruel. And again not that I mind. This world has plenty of cruelty...just that that’s the reason, or part of it, that people could see her getting violently defensive of her claim.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 30, 2019 12:00:02 GMT
She didn;t betray the deal. She gave a dragon for the Unsullied and then she invaded the city. They probably should have added peace treaty to the deal. She was not duplicitous in feeding someone to her dragon. She was punishing someone she thought was an enemy. She punishes people all the time with dragons. It's no different than beheadings or any other form of execution "honorable" men do. Perhaps I should’ve used the term dishonorable rather than shady. But I think you’re doing mental gymnastics not to consider what she did to get the Unsullied a doublecross. I’m not even using it to fault her character. It makes her far more interesting...but it shows just a taste of the lengths she’s willing to go to. My point about the punishment by dragons is it seems needlessly cruel. Like...I need to euthanize my old dog I can either give it an overdose of sleeping pills or beat it to death with a claw hammer. To me that’s the difference between beheading and feeding people to dragons. In the end both are dead but one method seems far more cruel. And again not that I mind. This world has plenty of cruelty...just that that’s the reason, or part of it, that people could see her getting violently defensive of her claim. It wasn’t a double cross anymore than any other invasion is a double cross. We know the deal was done because the Unsullied were no longer owned by the slavers. It didn’t dawn on them that she was a conqueror because she was a little girl in the books and still a female in the shows. She was taking out the slaver kingdoms so why exactly would they be spared. Why would dragon fire be any crueler than any other death penalty. You’re dead in a matter of seconds. That has nothing to do with honor anyway.
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Post by Marv on Apr 30, 2019 12:59:29 GMT
Perhaps I should’ve used the term dishonorable rather than shady. But I think you’re doing mental gymnastics not to consider what she did to get the Unsullied a doublecross. I’m not even using it to fault her character. It makes her far more interesting...but it shows just a taste of the lengths she’s willing to go to. My point about the punishment by dragons is it seems needlessly cruel. Like...I need to euthanize my old dog I can either give it an overdose of sleeping pills or beat it to death with a claw hammer. To me that’s the difference between beheading and feeding people to dragons. In the end both are dead but one method seems far more cruel. And again not that I mind. This world has plenty of cruelty...just that that’s the reason, or part of it, that people could see her getting violently defensive of her claim. It wasn’t a double cross anymore than any other invasion is a double cross. We know the deal was done because the Unsullied were no longer owned by the slavers. It didn’t dawn on them that she was a conqueror because she was a little girl in the books and still a female in the shows. She was taking out the slaver kingdoms so why exactly would they be spared. Why would dragon fire be any crueler than any other death penalty. You’re dead in a matter of seconds. That has nothing to do with honor anyway. I think we have different views on what constitutes a doublecross.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 30, 2019 13:19:19 GMT
It wasn’t a double cross anymore than any other invasion is a double cross. We know the deal was done because the Unsullied were no longer owned by the slavers. It didn’t dawn on them that she was a conqueror because she was a little girl in the books and still a female in the shows. She was taking out the slaver kingdoms so why exactly would they be spared. Why would dragon fire be any crueler than any other death penalty. You’re dead in a matter of seconds. That has nothing to do with honor anyway. I think we have different views on what constitutes a doublecross. Clearly lol. But let’s pretend that she was completely slimy for wiping out skates who castrate children, how is that a pattern of anything shady? The only other thing to think her dishonorable is dragon fire but not sure it was explained why it’s better to be stabbed in the gut, hung, being burned at the stake like “Mr. Honorable” Stannis. I think biases have a tendency to overshadow the actuality of a character.
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Post by hehatesshe on Apr 30, 2019 22:43:02 GMT
Exactly. If I just found out I was sleeping with my nephew, my first reaction would be *intense gagging*, not "You have a claim to the throne? :/" Then she's been turning off her own allies, either by killing their family members or threatening to kill their family members. I can't see this building to a happy ending where everyone does a freeze frame high five. Then again, with how simply the WWs were dealt with, anything is possible. But if the rest of the show is really just "kill Cersei, take the thrown" and no further conflict, I'll be disappointment. You;re blaming her for her reaction, but it isn't like Jon came to her saying "Hey, Auntie!" He framed it in terms of lineage and legitimizing his claim (Although he's still a bastard the show ignores that so I will go along with it.) even if it was unintentional which we know in part it couldn't be since Sam planted the idea. You might have missed it, but Jon is not a bastard. Rhaegar had his marriage to Elia annulled and married Lyanna in a secret ceremony. Gilly discovers this while reading from the journal of high septon Maynard in season 7s "Eastwatch"
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 30, 2019 22:57:40 GMT
You;re blaming her for her reaction, but it isn't like Jon came to her saying "Hey, Auntie!" He framed it in terms of lineage and legitimizing his claim (Although he's still a bastard the show ignores that so I will go along with it.) even if it was unintentional which we know in part it couldn't be since Sam planted the idea. You might have missed it, but Jon is not a bastard. Rhaegar had his marriage to Elia annulled and married Lyanna in a secret ceremony. Gilly discovers this while reading from the journal of high septon Maynard in season 7s "Eastwatch" that was very unilateral of Rhaegar and the crazy maester....errr I mean romantic.
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Marendil
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@marendil
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Post by Marendil on Apr 30, 2019 23:19:36 GMT
You might have missed it, but Jon is not a bastard. Rhaegar had his marriage to Elia annulled and married Lyanna in a secret ceremony. Gilly discovers this while reading from the journal of high septon Maynard in season 7s "Eastwatch" that was very unilateral of Rhaegar and the crazy maester....errr I mean romantic. Yeah, utterly bizarre actually.
However there's reason to believe there were more machinations in the works which were undone by Brandon Stark getting involved. As I recall off the top of my head there's reason to believe Rhaegar was about to depose the increasingly erratic Aerys and at the same time thought he needed to mate with a Stark to fulfill some ancient prophecy of one of the prescient Targaryens. The Targs only survived the Doom of Valyria because one of them, I think she was named Daenerys, saw it coming and was convincing enough the family moved to an old Valyrian outpost we know as Dragonstone.
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Post by hehatesshe on Apr 30, 2019 23:44:48 GMT
You might have missed it, but Jon is not a bastard. Rhaegar had his marriage to Elia annulled and married Lyanna in a secret ceremony. Gilly discovers this while reading from the journal of high septon Maynard in season 7s "Eastwatch" that was very unilateral of Rhaegar and the crazy maester....errr I mean romantic. It's good to be the king. Err... prince.
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Post by Aj_June on May 2, 2019 9:10:06 GMT
I'm personally hoping that we get Cersei's death either in episode 4 or 5 (Via Jaime/There should be no other option) and during that time we see somebody who was around for the Mad King to see Dany do something that gives them flashbacks *cough* Jaime *cough*. This leads to a final battle for the throne between Danys (who some are viewing as a return to the Mad King) and Jon. Maybe Jaime tries to kill Danys like he did her father and she executes him brutally that gets others to (ala Jon and his supporters) to turn against her seeing her as just like her father and the final fight begins. Idk, just spit ballin' here but I'd LOVE for Danys to become this big bad at the very end where she slowly and slowly becomes more and more like her father despite her constantly saying she's not her father. D&D have hinted previously that Dany is not like her father and so I do be very surprised if you get to see a "dark Dany".
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Post by moviebuffbrad on May 13, 2019 2:46:31 GMT
Although I am not a Dany fan, I can't help feeling amused that she has become the ultimate supervillain in minds of certain people. So far the false predictions about her: 1. She is coward who will run away to Essos when confronted with the Night King ->Turns out she fought bravely and didn't even think of going back to Essos.
2. She might push Jon from Dragon or do something to him during the battle of Winterfell because she now sees Jon as a threat to her reign - Turns out she saved life of Jon Snow for the 2nd time. 3. She is the common villain- Oh, you got to be joking? Right? The common villain is House Lannister (now Cersei alone is representative of Lannisters) who caused problems to Starks, Martels, Tyrells, House Tully, House Arryn etc. You surely have got be joking when you can't see that and imagine Dany is a common enemy.
Sorry, I know the 4th episode was heartbreaking for many fanatic haters of Dany but my advise is that keep your fantasies under check because Dany isn't a supervillain. Yeah, she might die in battle against Cersei but she is not going to be the character that almost all houses take hatred for. And please don't assume things about next episode. That she is the one who is dragging everyone to war. Arya's list is still alive....And Sansa doesn't trust a person in KL. It's like a silly child hating on one person. Stop this pettiness. If your fav characters are not getting appropriate importance that you believe they deserve then it is not the fault of other characters.
You were saying?
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Post by hehatesshe on May 13, 2019 2:53:24 GMT
Although I am not a Dany fan, I can't help feeling amused that she has become the ultimate supervillain in minds of certain people. So far the false predictions about her: 1. She is coward who will run away to Essos when confronted with the Night King ->Turns out she fought bravely and didn't even think of going back to Essos.
2. She might push Jon from Dragon or do something to him during the battle of Winterfell because she now sees Jon as a threat to her reign - Turns out she saved life of Jon Snow for the 2nd time. 3. She is the common villain- Oh, you got to be joking? Right? The common villain is House Lannister (now Cersei alone is representative of Lannisters) who caused problems to Starks, Martels, Tyrells, House Tully, House Arryn etc. You surely have got be joking when you can't see that and imagine Dany is a common enemy.
Sorry, I know the 4th episode was heartbreaking for many fanatic haters of Dany but my advise is that keep your fantasies under check because Dany isn't a supervillain. Yeah, she might die in battle against Cersei but she is not going to be the character that almost all houses take hatred for. And please don't assume things about next episode. That she is the one who is dragging everyone to war. Arya's list is still alive....And Sansa doesn't trust a person in KL. It's like a silly child hating on one person. Stop this pettiness. If your fav characters are not getting appropriate importance that you believe they deserve then it is not the fault of other characters.
You were saying? It really isn't much different than when Tywin sacked the city. I don't like that it was done, but it shouldn't make her the common enemy in anyone's mind who didn't think that of Tywin.
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Post by Aj_June on May 13, 2019 2:54:34 GMT
Although I am not a Dany fan, I can't help feeling amused that she has become the ultimate supervillain in minds of certain people. So far the false predictions about her: 1. She is coward who will run away to Essos when confronted with the Night King ->Turns out she fought bravely and didn't even think of going back to Essos.
2. She might push Jon from Dragon or do something to him during the battle of Winterfell because she now sees Jon as a threat to her reign - Turns out she saved life of Jon Snow for the 2nd time. 3. She is the common villain- Oh, you got to be joking? Right? The common villain is House Lannister (now Cersei alone is representative of Lannisters) who caused problems to Starks, Martels, Tyrells, House Tully, House Arryn etc. You surely have got be joking when you can't see that and imagine Dany is a common enemy.
Sorry, I know the 4th episode was heartbreaking for many fanatic haters of Dany but my advise is that keep your fantasies under check because Dany isn't a supervillain. Yeah, she might die in battle against Cersei but she is not going to be the character that almost all houses take hatred for. And please don't assume things about next episode. That she is the one who is dragging everyone to war. Arya's list is still alive....And Sansa doesn't trust a person in KL. It's like a silly child hating on one person. Stop this pettiness. If your fav characters are not getting appropriate importance that you believe they deserve then it is not the fault of other characters.
You were saying? Point 1 -> Stands true. Point 2 -> Stands True Point 3 - > The common enemy was House Lannister. The common enemy is the enemy of all houses. That would be House Lannister. Because House Martell, House Stak (which fought against Cersei), House Vale (Which fought against Cersei) and House Riverrun are all enemies of House Lannister.
So all my 3 points stand correct. You might point Dany became a big villain too. Yes, I erred there. I have never been known to not accept my mistake when I am wrong. I accept I made an error in judging how her character ends.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on May 13, 2019 2:58:36 GMT
Point 1 -> Stands true. Point 2 -> Stands True Point 3 - > The common enemy was House Lannister. The common enemy is the enemy of all houses. That would be House Lannister. Because House Martell, House Stak (which fought against Cersei), House Vale (Which fought against Cersei) and House Riverrun are all enemies of House Lannister.
So all my 3 points stand correct. You might point Dany became a big villain too. Yes, I erred there. I have never been known to not accept my mistake when I am wrong. I accept I made an error in judging how her character ends.
It was indeed the last point I was referring to, and I still suspect she'll kill or attempt to kill Jon re: #2. There's no possible way he's still on her side.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on May 13, 2019 3:02:35 GMT
It really isn't much different than when Tywin sacked the city. I don't like that it was done, but it shouldn't make her the common enemy in anyone's mind who didn't think that of Tywin. Who's mind are you referring to? He was the enemy of nearly every protagonist on the show (and even his own children), and 99% of the audience collectively cheered when he died.
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Post by Aj_June on May 13, 2019 3:05:01 GMT
Point 1 -> Stands true. Point 2 -> Stands True Point 3 - > The common enemy was House Lannister. The common enemy is the enemy of all houses. That would be House Lannister. Because House Martell, House Stak (which fought against Cersei), House Vale (Which fought against Cersei) and House Riverrun are all enemies of House Lannister.
So all my 3 points stand correct. You might point Dany became a big villain too. Yes, I erred there. I have never been known to not accept my mistake when I am wrong. I accept I made an error in judging how her character ends.
It was indeed the last point I was referring to, and I still suspect she'll kill or attempt to kill Jon re: #2. There's no possible way he's still on her side. I think the prophecy will come true. Nissa Nissa. I am not sure she will try to kill Jon. She might break down in his arms. Although my point 2 was meant for the allegation that she would try to Kill Jon during the Battle of Winterfell.
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