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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 9, 2019 20:44:14 GMT
because I have heard a large portion of the planet believes in a higher power and it's pretty safe to say that kind of percentage can't be 'really stupid' as most people should be somewhere in the ball park of average intelligence which is far above 'really stupid'. hell, I might say it's 'really stupid' for the atheist types to deny God as they are rolling-the-dice with their eternal souls etc. Argument from Popularity noted. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
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Post by Rodney Farber on May 9, 2019 20:55:10 GMT
Still, you got to admit some of what I posted is at least plausible ... Should you have any hard, concrete evidence thereof, you'll no doubt win a Nobel Prize. As for the miracle of Fatima, I find it odd that no one else in all of Europe saw the sun dance. I chalk it up to whacky cloud formations and mass hysteria caused by alcohol and the power of suggestion. Most people came to Fatima were drawn because some girls had told them a miracle would occur. Rather than admit that they had been wasting their time, they interpreted anything unusual as a miracle.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on May 9, 2019 21:00:35 GMT
Personally i am indifferent to whether or not God exist.
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Post by Rodney Farber on May 9, 2019 21:57:41 GMT
... To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. ... Faith is the excuse people use when they have no evidence.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on May 10, 2019 3:04:37 GMT
But there is (or at least God's (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)) existence is plausible) for those who can see... -Eucharistic Miracles (just to list some... churchpop.com/2015/06/28/5-extraordinary-eucharistic-miracles-with-pictures/ ) -Our Lady of Guadalupe (image from the year 1531) -Our Lady of Las Lajas (image on a rock from 1754) -Fatima (the miracle of the sun from 1917 etc) -St. Pio (1887-1968) but like I always say, for some it boils down to this... "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - St. Thomas AquinasNo, there isn't any proof and that trite phrase you always quote is just the same old bollocky circular argument. It just means that really stupid people choose to believe in something imaginary, as the OP said. I have seen that same statement, with slightly different wording, used in a way that is more skeptical. To those who believe, no proof is needed. To those who do not believe, no proof is possible."
Those who believe do so because they have a deep-seated need to believe. They don't want or need proof.
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Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
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Post by Eλευθερί on May 10, 2019 3:16:43 GMT
I think this is one of the most common rebuttals to religion that I hear (especially when used in a casual way/people not wanting to get into a long debate). I hear it online, on TV, on radio, in real life, etc. And I can understand that to a "true believer" this must be at least a little exasperating, because God isn't imaginary to them, but they have absolutely no way of refuting that because there isn't any proof. So... How about a deal? You believe whatever you want in the privacy of your home. But don't expect anyone outside your home to make any special allowances for that. Don't expect us to give you some special dispensation because it's unholy for someone else to do X or immoral for someone else to do Y. And we'll leave you alone to believe what you want. Deal? As a consenting adult if you want to forgo medical treatment for yourself because it's sinful - go wild. If you want to starve/beat/deny your natural urges/whatever yourself on a regular basis - be my guest. Are we all happy with that? Just don't expect the rest of us to join in with your delusions. And don't force them on your children either cos that's called "Child Abuse". (I'm surprised we didn't think of this earlier) This won't work because a lot of religious people believe as part of their religion that they have to control how other people behave. Think of traditional cultures in which something that a member of a family does (or has done to them, even if it is against that person's will) brings shame on the whole family. Whole wars used to get started over stuff like that. For that kind of mindset, which is extremely prevalent among the religious, there is a feeling that God expects them to police other people's behavior. If they don't, they will suffer consequences along with the people who are doing whatever they aren't supposed to be doing (although the latter will suffer more).
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Post by goz on May 10, 2019 5:24:30 GMT
I think this is one of the most common rebuttals to religion that I hear (especially when used in a casual way/people not wanting to get into a long debate). I hear it online, on TV, on radio, in real life, etc. And I can understand that to a "true believer" this must be at least a little exasperating, because God isn't imaginary to them, but they have absolutely no way of refuting that because there isn't any proof. So... How about a deal? You believe whatever you want in the privacy of your home. But don't expect anyone outside your home to make any special allowances for that. Don't expect us to give you some special dispensation because it's unholy for someone else to do X or immoral for someone else to do Y. And we'll leave you alone to believe what you want. Deal? As a consenting adult if you want to forgo medical treatment for yourself because it's sinful - go wild. If you want to starve/beat/deny your natural urges/whatever yourself on a regular basis - be my guest. Are we all happy with that? Just don't expect the rest of us to join in with your delusions. And don't force them on your children either cos that's called "Child Abuse". (I'm surprised we didn't think of this earlier) This won't work because a lot of religious people believe as part of their religion that they have to control how other people behave. Think of traditional cultures in which something that a member of a family does (or has done to them, even if it is against that person's will) brings shame on the whole family. Whole wars used to get started over stuff like that. For that kind of mindset, which is extremely prevalent among the religious, there is a feeling that God expects them to police other people's behavior. If they don't, they will suffer consequences along with the people who are doing whatever they aren't supposed to be doing (although the latter will suffer more). Presactly, which is why there should be a global universal rule of 'Do unto others as you would have others do unto you and don't expect them to believe whatever the fuck you do. If YOU want to believe shit, DON'T expect others to believe the same shit. If it doesn't hurt or affect you ( and it wouldn't because of the previous proviso) then STFU and live and let live. There will always have to secular law to maintain the peace, just don't make it anything other than it is....'the law for a peaceful society' and nothing more.
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Post by Rodney Farber on May 11, 2019 15:17:36 GMT
WHEN YOU'RE BURNING IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY...are YOU (OpiateOfTheMasses ) going to tell yourself that "I'm IMAGINING ALL OF THIS! THIS IS ALL IMAGINARY!!"? An adult Christian telling an atheist they are going to Hell is like the atheist telling the Christian that he is not going to get any gifts from Santa.
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