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Post by goz on May 21, 2019 1:27:30 GMT
Where is the source of the flow? It varies. Mostly it's a generator in a power plant somewhere around. It can also be a solar panel, if your house has those. Or a battery, for that matter. Probably the best analogy for electricity is to think of the wiring as pipes full of water. Having water in a pipe does nothing; it will just sit there. If you turn a tap on a little may dribble out under gravity, but you won't get a flow. But then picture a pump at the far end of the pipe; when turned on, the pump puts the water under pressure, which is felt at every point along the pipe. This is the generator in the power plant generating a potential difference across the circuit. Now if you open a tap water will spurt out, because water is being pushed along the pipe by the pressure from the pump. Similarly, if you close a circuit by turning the toaster on, electrical charge will flow along the wires. This is what electricity is; the movement of charge from one place to another. In this case, the movement of charge down the wires. For as long as the pump is working and the tap is open, water will flow down the pipe. For as long as the generator is working and the toaster is on, electrical charge will flow along the wires. (Fun fact. Electrical charges move very slowly along wires. Like, less than an inch a minute. Literally a snail's pace. But the flow of electricity moves at about a tenth the speed of light, and can circle the entire world in about a second and a half.) When the toaster turns off the circuit is broken and the charges stop flowing. At this point the electricity literally ceases to exist, just as if you turn the pump off the flow of the water ceases to exist. The water itself is still there, as the electrical charge is still there, but it's the movement of those things that we're talking about, not the things themselves. So yeah... Heeeyyy is literally as wrong as it's possible to be. Electricity does not go back to where it came from, it just stops existing. A much better analogy for what Heeeyyy is trying to say is a radio. The soul is a radio station, the brain is a radio receiver. The brain can die, but the radio signal is still there regardless. And that's perfectly possible, or at least conceivably possible. But Heeeyyy talks about it as if it is a proven fact and you have to be a dummy to think otherwise. And it's not. It's a hypothesis. It's irrational to believe it unless and until we have some sort of evidence for it. But Heeeyyy will never, ever provide such evidence. Because there is none. Whilst I am stroking your knowledge biceps appreciatively... I am saying Holy Crap, don't tell her abut radio signals/waves....as that was NOT even one of her choices back on that original thread about what 'consciousness' was! NOW look what you have done!
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 1:49:02 GMT
Whilst I am stroking your knowledge biceps appreciatively... Well if you have to stroke something of mine, couldn't you... oh, never mind. But that's the thing; contrary to what the fundies like to claim, I and many other skeptics are perfectly willing to entertain the possibility that there really are souls, or ghosts, or gods, or whatever. I'm willing to think about anyone's model of how such things work, and to offer improvements to those models. To do otherwise is to think like they think, just from the other direction. But I don't think like them; I base my views on evidence. What I say over and over, and what the fundies completely ignore, is that this is all just an intellectual exercise unless and until somebody can provide evidence to support their hypothesis. The funny thing is that when it comes to anything they don't want to believe - evolution, global warming, the futility of trickle-down economics - no amount of evidence is enough for them. You have to prove things to absolute, total 100% certainty, so that there is literally no chance of error whatsoever. And if you can't then what you're saying is just a guess. But when it comes to things that they want to believe, these things are just 'obviously true', and if there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever for them then that is utterly irrelevant to them - they won't even accept that there's a question there to be answered, let alone admit that they can't answer it. In short... fundies are a bunch of fuckwits.
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Post by goz on May 21, 2019 1:56:57 GMT
Whilst I am stroking your knowledge biceps appreciatively... Well if you have to stroke something of mine, couldn't you... oh, never mind. But that's the thing; contrary to what the fundies like to claim, I and many other skeptics are perfectly willing to entertain the possibility that there really are souls, or ghosts, or gods, or whatever. I'm willing to think about anyone's model of how such things work, and to offer improvements to those models. To do otherwise is to think like they think, just from the other direction. But I don't think like them; I base my views on evidence. What I say over and over, and what the fundies completely ignore, is that this is all just an intellectual exercise unless and until somebody can provide evidence to support their hypothesis. The funny thing is that when it comes to anything they don't want to believe - evolution, global warming, the futility of trickle-down economics - no amount of evidence is enough for them. You have to prove things to absolute, total 100% certainty, so that there is literally no chance of error whatsoever. And if you can't then what you're saying is just a guess. But when it comes to things that they want to believe, these things are just 'obviously true', and if there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever for them then that is utterly irrelevant to them - they won't even accept that there's a question there to be answered, let alone admit that they can't answer it. In short... fundies are a bunch of fuckwits. ...or in her case ... TWATS.
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Post by mslo79 on May 21, 2019 12:16:38 GMT
What the OP said is the truth. our souls are what animate our bodies and gives us life. but eventually our bodies die and then our soul ultimately ends up in Heaven or hell based on our choices here on earth. whether we accept God and His ways of living, or reject them, living a life of sin, and the consequence of rejecting God is hell since once you remove God from someone's soul, all good ceases to exist and only hate/misery can remain. but it's a wonder how anyone could reject God knowing the alternative (i.e. hell), which makes no sense to me, but apparently it happens to some unfortunate souls. gameboyThat's heresy (i.e. not true) as the Catholic church is the authority on Christianity and they teach nothing of the sort. there is only one God which is The Holy Trinity. everything else that exists is part of creation created by God and a creature cannot be greater than (or even equal to) it's Creator. the reason the Catholic church is the authority on Christianity is because it's THE church Jesus Christ Himself started with Peter (basically Peter is the first Pope (see Matthew 16:18)) and went through the generations til today (here is a list of Popes from Peter to date... www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm ). it's the church Jesus Christ Himself guides. or let me put it another way... the Catholic church was started by Jesus Christ, who is God, all other denominations are started by man. some basic teachings of the Catholic church... basically when we die here on earth we are then judged and from there one of three things happen... -Heaven (You won ; perfect happiness forever that's far better than any pleasure one can experience here on earth. but in my opinion... very few immediately enter here upon earthly death (see Purgatory below) ) -Purgatory (if you end up here, it's only temporary as everyone who ends up here is guaranteed Heaven eventually. in my opinion... assuming one does not end up in hell, the vast majority of people will spend at least sometime in this state since you have to be perfectly pure to enter Heaven, which means even the slightest stain of sin must be purified before entering Heaven. Purgatory is basically a purification process for ones soul and is painful since it removes our attachment to sin. as for how long someone is here in earthly time... no one knows. but I have heard some claim it can be decades or potentially centuries in some cases. or put it this way... I don't think it's a stretch for me to claim that, in terms of earth time, many will be there for a minimum of years and could be decades etc.) -Hell (you lost ; nothing but hate/misery exists here and it's eternal. those who die in a state of mortal sin go to hell. but this is the natural consequence for rejecting God since all good comes from God. God does not want to send people here (as He wants as many as He can in Heaven) but those people freely reject God (as God gives us free will to either choose good or bad) and He pretty much simply confirms their choice.)
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Post by faustus5 on May 21, 2019 12:25:06 GMT
What the OP said is the truth. our souls are what animate our bodies and gives us life. No, it is complete Bronze age bullshit with no scientific support.
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Post by dirtypillows on May 21, 2019 18:20:25 GMT
A soul is our state of being really, something we symbolically give birth too. It is not a separate entity. Spirituality is such a super complex subject. I guess I would place soul about 1/2 notch above spirit. Soul would be for me how much body can one's own essence contain, like when somebody might say that Tina Turner had a lot of soul when she got onstage, or that Billie Holliday sang with so much soul. That's not exactly it, because most people don't have Tina Turner's gift for expressing herself onstage and can't necessarily know what that particular experience feels life. But when you see her on stage, you know it's there. It's like depth of experience combined with depth of feeling is a way to experience one's own soul, to own one's own personal joy. It's something that some people can get out there and express it to others and then you know it when you see it or feel it. It is a manifestation of spirit (?!?!), but it's also the Donna Summer or Karen Carpenter or Edvard Grieg who probably knew they always had all along. If a person can allow their soul to be tapped into for the benevolent purposes of music and to bring others together in the spirit of joy, then that might be soul at its nearest finest, and that might represent some sort of all-time high for that person. To have a wise soul capable or reaching out and touching others in a most moving manner, that can be some of heightened and ultimate expression of love and joy and a giving spirit. Maybe soul is to consciously and subconsciously make a connection with your highest self. Yikes! Dunno. Maybe the Swedish pop group ABBA does not have much that could be regarded as "soulful", except for maybe "Fernando"; I am beginning to sound a little silly. But what ABBA's music does have is the lion's share of spirit and untamed joy and sex and good cheer, and none of these shouldn't be taken lightly. Does the soul have anything to do with God? Or can it be understood and experienced as ultimately personal? Or is it really just a metaphor for something we don't like to think about too much? If somebody were to ask me in hopes of getting some definitive answer about what the soul is, I really don't know what I would say. I don't want to just think of the soul as the part of you that lives forever, because that definition is abstract and not very helpful.
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Post by goz on May 21, 2019 22:24:22 GMT
Spirituality is such a super complex subject. I guess I would place soul about 1/2 notch above spirit. Soul would be for me how much body can one's own essence contain, like when somebody might say that Tina Turner had a lot of soul when she got onstage, or that Billie Holliday sang with so much soul. That's not exactly it, because most people don't have Tina Turner's gift for expressing herself onstage and can't necessarily know what that particular experience feels life. But when you see her on stage, you know it's there. It's like depth of experience combined with depth of feeling is a way to experience one's own soul, to own one's own personal joy. It's something that some people can get out there and express it to others and then you know it when you see it or feel it. It is a manifestation of spirit (?!?!), but it's also the Donna Summer or Karen Carpenter or Edvard Grieg who probably knew they always had all along. If a person can allow their soul to be tapped into for the benevolent purposes of music and to bring others together in the spirit of joy, then that might be soul at its nearest finest, and that might represent some sort of all-time high for that person. To have a wise soul capable or reaching out and touching others in a most moving manner, that can be some of heightened and ultimate expression of love and joy and a giving spirit. Maybe soul is to consciously and subconsciously make a connection with your highest self. Yikes! Dunno. Maybe the Swedish pop group ABBA does not have much that could be regarded as "soulful", except for maybe "Fernando"; I am beginning to sound a little silly. But what ABBA's music does have is the lion's share of spirit and untamed joy and sex and good cheer, and none of these shouldn't be taken lightly. Does the soul have anything to do with God? Or can it be understood and experienced as ultimately personal? Or is it really just a metaphor for something we don't like to think about too much? If somebody were to ask me in hopes of getting some definitive answer about what the soul is, I really don't know what I would say. I don't want to just think of the soul as the part of you that lives forever, because that definition is abstract and not very helpful. How can it possibly live forever, when the seat of consciousness is in the brain and your brain dies, along with all previous thoughts memories and DNA which makes you....YOU. There is nothing for it to 'inhabit'.
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Post by Aj_June on May 21, 2019 22:30:33 GMT
What about the monster created by Dr. Frankenstein. Has he got a soul too? Yes, he had a kind soul. He was representative of the misunderstood outcast of society. The misfit. The story was allegorical in that way. That's a good interpretation. I read the book a long time ago (probably in school library) so can't remember if it was implied by Mary Shelley but quite a few Frankenstein movies have depicted what you stated.
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on May 21, 2019 22:31:27 GMT
Nor am I a soldier.
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Post by dirtypillows on May 22, 2019 4:04:08 GMT
How can it possibly live forever, when the seat of consciousness is in the brain and your brain dies, along with all previous thoughts memories and DNA which makes you....YOU. There is nothing for it to 'inhabit'. Like I said... it's abstract
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Post by goz on May 22, 2019 4:39:54 GMT
How can it possibly live forever, when the seat of consciousness is in the brain and your brain dies, along with all previous thoughts memories and DNA which makes you....YOU. There is nothing for it to 'inhabit'. Like I said... it's abstract What does that even mean? Does it exist or not?
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Post by goz on May 22, 2019 5:15:40 GMT
Like I said... it's abstractExactly Mr. D! Dirty Gertie is just looking for an argument and thinks she is being reasonable, is taking things out of context and she is one of the most wrong posters I have ever come across when it comes to holistic matters , and I don't often like to think in concrete terms as right or wrong.
She doesn't even know what the seat of consciousness or mind is, or where it is and neither do scientists, especially when something like this is intangible. Gertie only wants to sound impressive and if you don't agree with her, you will get pelted withe her feminist brick logic.
That is untrue. it is known what and where the consciousness resides and it is in the brain. This is scientifically proven and this proof is re-enforced by the cutting edge work being done in bypassing injury in the brain nerves and spinal cord to allow brain injured para and quadriplegic people to function through targeted thought, understanding the affects and ramifications of brain injury and disease. How do you think that they can turn of life support systems, legally? This proves that once the brain is dead, so in the person, with no possibility of any further consciousness. WTF is a holistic matter, and why is it different to the way the world actually works? BTW The more a poster has to resort to ad hominem insults,name calling and personal remarks, they have already lost the debate, especially if they descend into summarising other people's positions and not letting them speak for themselves.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 23, 2019 19:46:02 GMT
You ARE a soul that has a temporary body. How would the world look if it had souls within it in temporary bodies compared to one which was entirely without any?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 23, 2019 19:47:21 GMT
Try thinking for yourself once in a while instead of believing everything that other twits tell you in scripture. Corrected.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 18:21:17 GMT
What the OP said is the truth. That is not something you know, and it's not something the OP knows.
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