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Post by jackspicer on May 20, 2019 21:56:27 GMT
As you know, Jon stabs Dany to death in Season 8 Episode 6 while kissing her.
I was expecting that to happen in Season 8 Episode 5 while he was kissing her. (Was I the only one thinking it? I thought one was going to stab the other, but I wasn't sure which. And then nothing happened).
It would have been a sad ending for Dany, but Jon murdering Dany before she goes on her crazy rampage, and dethroning Cersei himself, would been slightly better than the ending we got.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 20, 2019 22:14:11 GMT
As you know, Jon stabs Dany to death in Season 8 Episode 6 while kissing her. I was expecting that to happen in Season 8 Episode 5 while he was kissing her. (Was I the only one thinking it? I thought one was going to stab the other, but I wasn't sure which. And then nothing happened). It would have been a sad ending for Dany, but Jon murdering Dany before she goes on her crazy rampage, and dethroning Cersei himself, would been slightly better than the ending we got. No, Daenerys had to raze King's Landing and give her speech on an everlasting war for it to work in my opinion. She wasn't crazy, she was just too much a potential tyrant and Jon's stab an 'et tu, Brutus' moment.
'Jon Snow was an honorable man'--but Westeros had seen enough of conquerors.
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Post by jackspicer on May 20, 2019 22:23:34 GMT
for it to work in my opinion Except Brutus stabbed Caesar before Caesar murdered a bunch of kids with a dragon. No disrespect, but I do not consider the ending we got to have 'worked' at all. It would have been better to waste Dany when we were unsure how her coin would land, rather than have her engage in a holocaust without proper motivation and set up. But, to each their own.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 20, 2019 22:38:42 GMT
for it to work in my opinion Except Brutus stabbed Caesar before Caesar murdered a bunch of kids with a dragon. No disrespect, but I do not consider the ending we got to have 'worked' at all. It would have been better to waste Dany when we were unsure how her coin would land, rather than have her engage in a holocaust without proper motivation and set up. But, to each their own. The Gauls would disagree.
I see the razing of King's Landing as shorthand for a better part of a season (book) showing Dany having the same sorts of problems she did in Meereen that would have led to the same outcome. I can live with them skipping over it and I'm still curious how GRRM will get there so I think it a decent ending for all parties concerned.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 20, 2019 23:17:34 GMT
There would be no reason for Jon to do that.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 21, 2019 7:34:52 GMT
As you know, Jon stabs Dany to death in Season 8 Episode 6 while kissing her. I was expecting that to happen in Season 8 Episode 5 while he was kissing her. (Was I the only one thinking it? I thought one was going to stab the other, but I wasn't sure which. And then nothing happened). It would have been a sad ending for Dany, but Jon murdering Dany before she goes on her crazy rampage, and dethroning Cersei himself, would been slightly better than the ending we got. Jon would have had no reason to go after Cersei after that. He never wanted the throne and there was no need for this war. And yes, an alliance between Cersei and Sansa to do away with Daenerys Wheelbreaker, Leader of Scum, would have been a far better ending.
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Post by Winter_King on May 21, 2019 9:16:46 GMT
Nah. I preferred Jon killing Dany after she burned King's Landing. Of course, had this been a 10 episode season, that death would've happened in episode 9 which would leave episode 10 as an epilogue.
Again most of the problems with the season has come down to D&D deciding that 13 episodes would be enough when they clearly had material to write two full seasons worth of story.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 21, 2019 9:43:31 GMT
It must be clear, though, that Daenerys turning into a popular, beloved monster was the point of the whole thing. This is what the author, GRRM, set out to do and merely hinting at avoided disaster would not have had that weight.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 21, 2019 11:32:25 GMT
The better ending would have been to split the kingdoms into individual ones again as the Targaryen cycle that created it ended.
While many of them would have stuck to the old system, there is no way Dorne or Iron Islands, who were freed by Dany anyway, would stay.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 21, 2019 11:39:42 GMT
The better ending would have been to split the kingdoms into individual ones again as the Targaryen cycle that created it ended. While many of them would have stuck to the old system, there is no way Dorne or Iron Islands, who were freed by Dany anyway, would stay. Dorne wasn't freed and there's not enough left of the Iron Island's forces left to stop anyone if they tried to reclaim their independence. Yara retook it with like three ships or so.
They all kind of need each other now more than they need yet another war.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 21, 2019 12:04:25 GMT
As you know, Jon stabs Dany to death in Season 8 Episode 6 while kissing her. I was expecting that to happen in Season 8 Episode 5 while he was kissing her. (Was I the only one thinking it? I thought one was going to stab the other, but I wasn't sure which. And then nothing happened). It would have been a sad ending for Dany, but Jon murdering Dany before she goes on her crazy rampage, and dethroning Cersei himself, would been slightly better than the ending we got. Dany should have gone sooner but becasue she's a popular character and one of D&D beloved character they dragged this out for as long as they could . As much as I like Jon I can also say he is a fool he even admitted it once to Tyrion . Jon never killed a woman before , when he captured Ygritte he couldn't behead her and I think He took too long to decide what to do with Dany , it took Tyrion to bring up Sansa and arya to get through to him ,and like I always suspected it would come down to choosing ,his love for the Starks or his loyalty to his "queen " you can see all throughout the season Jon ,doubting,fearing Dany even if he had love for her was out of fear and Dany knew that . scene was too much for IMO jons crying wailing came bit too fake knowing Dany stood everything against what Jon believes in and stands for.that was fan service for Dany fans and for Kit harinton to save face so he is not the most hated for taking out Dany their beloved character . jon had no reason to dehtrone cersei he didn't care , his main focus was the NK at that time and if there was no Dany or dragons cersei and the north would fight the WW side by side , cersei only wanted their loyalty and Sansa knows cersei well they would have come to an understanding despite what happened in the past . Cersei even told Jon S7 I know neds bastard would be true to his word. As evil as some of you think cersei or her father was did you hear what Tyrion said ? doesn't even come close to how many innocents Dany killed .
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 21, 2019 12:19:26 GMT
Dany should have gone sooner but becasue she's a popular character and one of D&D beloved character they dragged this out for as long as they could . … He took too long to decide what to do with Dany , it took Tyrion to bring up Sansa and arya to get through to him ,and like I always suspected it would come down to choosing ,his love for the Starks or his loyalty to his "queen " you can see all throughout the season Jon ,doubting,fearing Dany even if he had love for her was out of fear and Dany knew that . … As evil as some of you think cersei or her father was did you hear what Tyrion said ? doesn't even come close to how many innocents Dany killed . Daenerys will also die last in the books. This is not D&D's choice. GRRM's sequence of events will play the same way and Daenerys turning bad will be the last villain. I suppose A Dream Of Spring will tell the story of her going to "break the wheel" after the White Walker peril is set aside in The Winds Of Winter. Tyrion convincing Jon mirrored Varys convincing Ned to "confess" in S1. In both cases, dumb rigid loyalty and self-sacrifice were made soft by the thought of daughters or sisters. These parallels are intentional. Tyrion and Jon were reduced to archetypes of the late repenting helper to a monster and the loyal but doubting follower. Jon was there to make a difficult choice. Tyrion saying one last time his father and sister were evil is the reason I shall never stop shitting on the character. This is why I wanted him dead, as all the prejudiced feelers around him. Tyrion is not clever, not enough to learn without falling on his face first. At least the show made that clear.
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Post by Winter_King on May 21, 2019 12:32:56 GMT
Dany should have gone sooner but becasue she's a popular character and one of D&D beloved character they dragged this out for as long as they could . … He took too long to decide what to do with Dany , it took Tyrion to bring up Sansa and arya to get through to him ,and like I always suspected it would come down to choosing ,his love for the Starks or his loyalty to his "queen " you can see all throughout the season Jon ,doubting,fearing Dany even if he had love for her was out of fear and Dany knew that . … As evil as some of you think cersei or her father was did you hear what Tyrion said ? doesn't even come close to how many innocents Dany killed . Daenerys will also die last in the books. This is not D&D's choice. GRRM's sequence of events will play the same way and Daenerys turning bad will be the last villain. I suppose A Dream Of Spring will tell the story of her going to "break the wheel" after the White Walker peril is set aside in The Winds Of Winter.Tyrion convincing Jon mirrored Varys convincing Ned to "confess" in S1. In both cases, dumb rigid loyalty and self-sacrifice were made soft by the thought of daughters or sisters. These parallels are intentional. Tyrion and Jon were reduced to archetypes of the late repenting helper to a monster and the loyal but doubting follower. Jon was there to make a difficult choice. Tyrion saying one last time his father and sister were evil is the reason I shall never stop shitting on the character. This is why I wanted him dead, as all the prejudiced feelers around him. Tyrion is not clever, not enough to learn without falling on his face first. At least the show made that clear. If the Others invade and are defeated in Winds of Winter, I will even be more pissed at D&D because that pretty much means that they should've dealt with the White Walkers exclusively in a season and deal with Dany/Cersei and whoever gets to rule Westeros in another season. No need to condense those two events into a single season.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 21, 2019 13:02:49 GMT
The better ending would have been to split the kingdoms into individual ones again as the Targaryen cycle that created it ended. While many of them would have stuck to the old system, there is no way Dorne or Iron Islands, who were freed by Dany anyway, would stay. Dorne wasn't freed and there's not enough left of the Iron Island's forces left to stop anyone if they tried to reclaim their independence. Yara retook it with like three ships or so.
They all kind of need each other now more than they need yet another war.
I was only talking about Iron Islands which Dany gave independence as long as they stopped raiding. There’s no way anyone is prepared for another battle. However, the point was that independent was not the thing only sought by the North. What made North special beyond nepotism which Bran would likely not concern himself with. After all, most or all of the kingdoms existed thousands of years as independent.
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Post by Marendil on May 21, 2019 13:42:55 GMT
Dorne wasn't freed and there's not enough left of the Iron Island's forces left to stop anyone if they tried to reclaim their independence. Yara retook it with like three ships or so.
They all kind of need each other now more than they need yet another war.
I was only talking about Iron Islands which Dany gave independence as long as they stopped raiding. There’s no way anyone is prepared for another battle. However, the point was that independent was not the thing only sought by the North. What made North special beyond nepotism which Bran would likely not concern himself with. After all, most or all of the kingdoms existed thousands of years as independent. They sacrificed the most in the Great War. Come to think of it Jaime Lannister, Gendry and Davos Seaworth were about the only southerners who fought the Army of the Dead.
The Iron Islands is the least prepared for battle, they lost basically everything to the Boltons, Euron and Drogon.
There was a time when England had what was called a Heptarchy, or Seven Kingdoms, they never broke apart again (for the most part) once combined.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 21, 2019 14:37:01 GMT
I was only talking about Iron Islands which Dany gave independence as long as they stopped raiding. There’s no way anyone is prepared for another battle. However, the point was that independent was not the thing only sought by the North. What made North special beyond nepotism which Bran would likely not concern himself with. After all, most or all of the kingdoms existed thousands of years as independent. They sacrificed the most in the Great War. Come to think of it Jaime Lannister, Gendry and Davos Seaworth were about the only southerners who fought the Army of the Dead.
The Iron Islands is the least prepared for battle, they lost basically everything to the Boltons, Euron and Drogon.
There was a time when England had what was called a Heptarchy, or Seven Kingdoms, they never broke apart again (for the most part) once combined.
They claimed independence beforehand and the other kingdoms wouldn’t care anyway. I’m not aware of the Iron Islands losing anything from the Boltons beyond their raiding forces in the North, but still what army was large enough to travel to the Iron Islands? They would need a nice size navy to even get there.
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Post by Marendil on May 21, 2019 14:51:54 GMT
They sacrificed the most in the Great War. Come to think of it Jaime Lannister, Gendry and Davos Seaworth were about the only southerners who fought the Army of the Dead.
The Iron Islands is the least prepared for battle, they lost basically everything to the Boltons, Euron and Drogon.
There was a time when England had what was called a Heptarchy, or Seven Kingdoms, they never broke apart again (for the most part) once combined.
They claimed independence beforehand and the other kingdoms wouldn’t care anyway. I’m not aware of the Iron Islands losing anything from the Boltons beyond their raiding forces in the North, but still what army was large enough to travel to the Iron Islands? They would need a nice size navy to even get there. Dorne has a fleet, so does The Reach, usually anchored at the Arbor.
The Ironborn sent most of their army against the North and got very little back.
The Riverlands would care, there's still bad blood there going way back, the North is probably still pissed too.
At any rate while a part of the Realm they have a seat at the table, why would they want to lose that and create potential enemies all around while they're so weak and vulnerable?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 21, 2019 15:09:07 GMT
They claimed independence beforehand and the other kingdoms wouldn’t care anyway. I’m not aware of the Iron Islands losing anything from the Boltons beyond their raiding forces in the North, but still what army was large enough to travel to the Iron Islands? They would need a nice size navy to even get there. Dorne has a fleet, so does The Reach, usually anchored at the Arbor.
The Ironborn sent most of their army against the North and got very little back.
The Riverlands would care, there's still bad blood there going way back, the North is probably still pissed too.
At any rate while a part of the Realm they have a seat at the table, why would they want to lose that and create potential enemies all around while they're so weak and vulnerable?
They all have a fleet including the Iron Born who have the best fleet even at their worst. They are not nearly as defenseless as people pretend they are. I feel like we are talking around the point. What would unite 2 or 3 kingdoms to unite to stop one or two other kingdoms who were wanting independence in the first place. North Dorne Iron Islands All three wanted independence and yet things are now so awesome that they want to stick with the kingdom that killed who they supported, the North is free despite being against the one they supported, but also be OK with NO representation in the new government. Whatever I guess since the story made it so but it’s not logical even using real world examples that people keep trying to use.
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Post by Marendil on May 21, 2019 15:32:38 GMT
Dorne has a fleet, so does The Reach, usually anchored at the Arbor.
The Ironborn sent most of their army against the North and got very little back.
The Riverlands would care, there's still bad blood there going way back, the North is probably still pissed too.
At any rate while a part of the Realm they have a seat at the table, why would they want to lose that and create potential enemies all around while they're so weak and vulnerable?
They all have a fleet including the Iron Born who have the best fleet even at their worst. They are not nearly as defenseless as people pretend they are. I feel like we are talking around the point. What would unite 2 or 3 kingdoms to unite to stop one or two other kingdoms who were wanting independence in the first place. North Dorne Iron Islands All three wanted independence and yet things are now so awesome that they want to stick with the kingdom that killed who they supported, the North is free despite being against the one they supported, but also be OK with NO representation in the new government. Whatever I guess since the story made it so but it’s not logical even using real world examples that people keep trying to use. They still need a Grand Admiral, who better than Yara?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on May 21, 2019 15:49:19 GMT
As you know, Jon stabs Dany to death in Season 8 Episode 6 while kissing her. I was expecting that to happen in Season 8 Episode 5 while he was kissing her. (Was I the only one thinking it? I thought one was going to stab the other, but I wasn't sure which. And then nothing happened). It would have been a sad ending for Dany, but Jon murdering Dany before she goes on her crazy rampage, and dethroning Cersei himself, would been slightly better than the ending we got. Why would that be better?
I think the ending we did get was fine.
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