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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 11, 2019 21:43:55 GMT
Nonit isn’t. The dad is lying and the teacher is practically lying because she doesn’t know for sure but has the nerve to be cinfiemdent in her religions view. The argument is even weirder considering it seems to take the parents out of religion when most theophobiacs accuse them of the indoctrination. Basically the Sunday school teacher is teaching what the parents believe. None of them are lying, dishonest, or even proven wrong in their religious beliefs until the OP adds more plot to his fictional story. It’s goofy and dishonest to pretend atheists only discuss facts in a thread that is literally having them trying to be Professor X when there is no evidence telepaths exist. I wasn't talking to you.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 11, 2019 22:21:50 GMT
Basically the Sunday school teacher is teaching what the parents believe. None of them are lying, dishonest, or even proven wrong in their religious beliefs until the OP adds more plot to his fictional story. Some parents tell their children stories about Santa, in order to manipulate their behaviour. That is a fact. Some (religious) leaders tell children stories about God and Jesus, also to manipulate their behaviour. That is also a fact. It's true that the sunday school teachers tell what the parents believe. Otherwise the parents wouldn't send their children to sunday school. But it's also true that sunday school is manipulative. I remember from my own sunday school sessions (I was raised Catholic) that the existence of God was never questioned; or that Jesus was his son. And none of us kids dared challenge this view. Me neither. If parents and priests were secure and sincere in their belief, they would not try to indoctrinate the children from early on. They would simply tell the children that they believe in God and/or Jesus (or Mohammed, for that matter), and that this faith makes sense to them or gives them comfort; but acknowledge that not everybody shares this faith, and that they would be ok if their children didn't. But this is not always the case. Some parents really try to prevent their children from learning alternative views to their religion. In my opinion they do it because deep down, they know that their religion does not make that much sense. And this, in my opinion, is a sign of dishonesty or insecurity.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 11, 2019 23:10:51 GMT
Basically the Sunday school teacher is teaching what the parents believe. None of them are lying, dishonest, or even proven wrong in their religious beliefs until the OP adds more plot to his fictional story. Some parents tell their children stories about Santa, in order to manipulate their behaviour. That is a fact. Some (religious) leaders tell children stories about God and Jesus, also to manipulate their behaviour. That is also a fact. It's true that the sunday school teachers tell what the parents believe. Otherwise the parents wouldn't send their children to sunday school. But it's also true that sunday school is manipulative. I remember from my own sunday school sessions (I was raised Catholic) that the existence of God was never questioned; or that Jesus was his son. And none of us kids dared challenge this view. Me neither. If parents and priests were secure and sincere in their belief, they would not try to indoctrinate the children from early on. They would simply tell the children that they believe in God and/or Jesus (or Mohammed, for that matter), and that this faith makes sense to them or gives them comfort; but acknowledge that not everybody shares this faith, and that they would be ok if their children didn't. But this is not always the case. Some parents really try to prevent their children from learning alternative views to their religion. In my opinion they do it because deep down, they know that their religion does not make that much sense. And this, in my opinion, is a sign of dishonesty or insecurity. I had a similar childhood experience, courtesy of my parent's membership in a Southern Baptist church. And, yes, I was actively discouraged from learning alternative views to their religion. But a public education in a state college offers opportunities to learn about the rest of the world. My Dad was appalled that I began to question. He was a 'true believer', and genuinely thought I would go to Hell after death. It really was a problem in our otherwise great relationship. So when he was dying, in the hospital from a massive hemorrhagic stroke, I lied to him and said to him that I was a believer, so that he could let go in peace. My mother is still alive, and knows I'm not a believer, but she had more interest in the social aspects of church-going than that of a true believer. She still tries, from time to time, to suck me back in, but I think she knows it's never going to happen. There's a quote somewhere, I'm paraphrasing, here - Religion is the band-aid invented by humans to soothe a soul bloodied by life. And I think a lot of religious folks believe for that reason - answers, instead of questions. But I would rather the questions, the insecurities, the facts discovered by science, than answers that, while comforting, may be false. Especially when so much blood has been spilled over who's invisible friend is the right one. If religions could coexist, that might make me less skeptical. But, given the horrors of the Crusades, Meso-Americans' human sacrifices, and countless other inhumane behaviors, I will remain an agnostic atheist. I can't know if there is a god, and if there is a god, the nature of that god. There is only belief and disbelief in the absence of scientific evidence. All religions have some good features and some bad features. I respect the believers who do good. But I cannot overlook the bad. Which makes me a secular humanist. Edit: I think the concept of 'ahimsa' is a good one, but as AJ has pointed out, both Hindus and Jains have behaved badly, to put it mildly. And I live my life trying to alleviate the suffering of others as much as I can, especially animals. I'm vegetarian, just a wee bit short of vegan, and working on it. I respect all forms of life. How can that be bad?
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