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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 10, 2017 16:41:16 GMT
What are everybody's thoughts on comparing and contrasting these?
As we all probably know (but as I'll reiterate anyway)...
Same writers (Gilliat and Launder).
Same star (the charming Margaret Lockwood).
Same two famous supporting players (our old friends Naunton Wayne and Basil Radford as Chalders and Caldicott).
Same setting (train going through enemy territory).
Same general plot points.
Yet the two pictures feel different (Night Train feels more open, expansive--there are certainly fewer scenes actually aboard the train, ironically), in addition to having different plots. I suppose I'm asking the question first to see if anyone here prefers one to the other, despite their similarities, and, if so, second to see which one you prefer. As much as I admire The Lady Vanishes (great fun, and one of my mother's favorite movies), I must admit to preferring Night Train. It seems like Gilliat and Launder refined their skills for the second picture.
Agree, disagree, thoughts?
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Post by telegonus on Apr 10, 2017 18:49:20 GMT
I've seen them both, saw The Lady Vanishes first, and have seen it many times since, while Night Train To Munich I've seen just once, and it did play like a riff on the earlier film. The earlier film is more playful feeling, as I recall, and a product of the pre-war era, while the other film has a more real life vibe, as I remember it.
I believe the war had already started by that time. One of the many things that made the Hitchcock film so great was the way it captured (to apparent perfection) the mood of pre-war England, and I suppose, more broadly Europe, in the face of the coming war.
There's even a chapter in Robert Graves' book on the interwar era, The Long Weekend, that uses the newspaper headline near the end "Rain Stops Play" that references that film, as the title of the final chapter. In this it was a film larger than itself, a sort of watershed, and as such has a place in history,--or am I "reaching" in saying this?
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Post by wmcclain on Apr 10, 2017 18:52:10 GMT
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Post by telegonus on Apr 10, 2017 19:10:44 GMT
I like both films. Both need a while to get going; I wish Michael Redgrave were a bit more lively in the Hitchcock. The Reed film is a lot of fun, although it takes time for the comedy to kick in. The Lady Vanishes (1938)Truly, Michael Redgrave was no Rex Harrison. I'm a bit surprised that Harrison never worked for Alfred Hitchcock. One might think he'd have made an ideal Hitchcock hero. Night Train to Munich (1940)
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Post by Richard Kimble on Apr 10, 2017 19:29:09 GMT
I prefer NTTM. I've never really cared much for TLV. I like both films. Both need a while to get going; I wish Michael Redgrave were a bit more lively in the Hitchcock. The Reed film is a lot of fun, although it takes time for the comedy to kick in. Truly, Michael Redgrave was no Rex Harrison. I'm a bit surprised that Harrison never worked for Alfred Hitchcock. One might think he'd have made an ideal Hitchcock hero. Harrison could have been in: Dial M For Murder Rope Shadow Of A DoubtNot a Hitch, but I posted in the Khartoum thread that Harrison succeeded in "Olivier roles" in Cleopatra and The Agony & The Ecstasy (Olivier at one pint was to have been in the latter), while Oliver succeeded in a "Harrison role" in Sleuth. I wonder what RH would have been like in that.
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 11, 2017 0:55:31 GMT
Thanks for responding, guys! First of all, I just want to emphasize that I think The Lady Vanishes is a great little movie. It's a great deal of fun. But I came to Night Train to Munich with no expectations and was pleasantly surprised--I thought it cleverer, wittier, and more fast-moving. Hitchcock did an admirable job on Lady, but it was his last picture before Selznick picked him up and he headed to America, and I think it shows. (He also had nothing to do with the script or the concepts, unlike the majority of his films, at least according to Donald Spoto's The Art of Alfred Hitchcock.) spiderwort Thanks for your response! Always nice hearing from you. I do recommend Night Train, especially if you enjoy Lady as I did. telegonus I don't believe you're stretching with your analysis; to the contrary, it does seem to be heralded just as you describe in many sources I've read, at least. I suppose I simply find Night Train the better picture on a cinematic level: a little more fast-paced, a little funnier, a little more well-acted. Reed relies on his script far more than Hitch--which is not always a good thing, I hasten to add, but in this case, with such admirable and cinematic screenwriters as Gilliat and Launder, it works to Night Train's advantage, I think. wmcclain Great reviews, as usual. I agree about Night Train's comedy taking a little longer to get going, but I think that, once it does start, it is also funnier and more fast-paced, akin to Lubitsch's direction of To Be or Not to Be. Richard Kimble ( and telegonus ) I wonder if the answer may be as simple as a personality clash. If you look at Harrison's best film performances, they're with directors (Carol Reed, George Cukor, especially Joseph Mankiewicz) who are less tyrants and more constitutional monarchs on set, and Harrison had a very strong, influential personality. Hitch also had a strong, influential personality and was a tyrant on set, therefore creating and/or shaping his actors' and characters' their personalities ( vide his arguments on-set with Paul Newman--and with Bernard Herrmann!--for Torn Curtain). By the way, for Sleuth, I always wondered if Olivier based his performance as Wyke on Harrison's very similar performance in Mankiewicz's The Honey Pot. The performances are remarkable in their similarities.
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Post by politicidal on Apr 11, 2017 1:08:06 GMT
The Lady Vanishes has that good old Hitchcockian suspense and style that makes it entertaining. The lead actress Margaret Lockwood is good but I found Michael Redgrave boring honestly. But Night Train to Munich seemed to have a faster pace and more fun with itself if that makes sense. Rex Harrison was better suited to Lockwood in that.
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Post by Richard Kimble on Apr 11, 2017 7:46:20 GMT
for Sleuth, I always wondered if Olivier based his performance as Wyke on Harrison's very similar performance in Mankiewicz's The Honey Pot. The performances are remarkable in their similarities. I was reminded of that as well as Unfaithfully Yours, specifically the scene where Harrison frames Kurt Kreuger. RH's line "I really want you to" seems to prefigure LO in Sleuth.
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 11, 2017 17:00:11 GMT
The Lady Vanishes has that good old Hitchcockian suspense and style that makes it entertaining. The lead actress Margaret Lockwood is good but I found Michael Redgrave boring honestly. But Night Train to Munich seemed to have a faster pace and more fun with itself if that makes sense. Rex Harrison was better suited to Lockwood in that. I didn't find Redgrave boring, but I see what you mean. I do agree completely that Night Train had a faster pace and seemed to have more fun with itself. Above, wmcclain mentioned that it seemed like a "riff" on the earlier film, and that may enter into it as well: it's having fun with some of the (few) solemn points in the earlier picture.
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 11, 2017 17:02:03 GMT
for Sleuth, I always wondered if Olivier based his performance as Wyke on Harrison's very similar performance in Mankiewicz's The Honey Pot. The performances are remarkable in their similarities. I was reminded of that as well as Unfaithfully Yours, specifically the scene where Harrison frames Kurt Kreuger. RH's line "I really want you to" seems to prefigure LO in Sleuth. Hm, haven't seen Unfaithfully Yours. (I know, I know, and Sturges is one of my favorite writer-directors, too!) But I think Olivier was definitely borrowing, at least in part, from The Honey Pot (which has some other similarities with Sleuth, particularly in plotting, as well).
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Post by teleadm on Apr 12, 2017 18:01:30 GMT
Thanks for responding, guys! First of all, I just want to emphasize that I think The Lady Vanishes is a great little movie. It's a great deal of fun. But I came to Night Train to Munich with no expectations and was pleasantly surprised--I thought it cleverer, wittier, and more fast-moving. Hitchcock did an admirable job on Lady, but it was his last picture before Selznick picked him up and he headed to America, and I think it shows. (He also had nothing to do with the script or the concepts, unlike the majority of his films, at least according to Donald Spoto's The Art of Alfred Hitchcock.) Just a little respons, after The Lady Vanishes Hitchock also managed to squeeze in Jamaica Inn before he went to America, maybe for contractual obligations.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Apr 12, 2017 18:10:59 GMT
Nalkarj Have seen The Lady Vanishes and liked it. The Night Train to Munich is now on the ever expanding "find and watch" list. BTW this is the kind of comparing thread that I like. The ones we see more often of the Bambi vs King Kong types, not so much.
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Post by teleadm on Apr 12, 2017 18:17:58 GMT
It's interesting to look at Carol Reed's career, there's quit a few movies in the noir, thriller, crime genres. Before Munich he did another crime movie with Margaret Lockwood called Girl in the News 1940. After Munich there is offcourse the more famous Odd Man Out 1947, The Fallen Idol 1948 and The Third Man 1949. Later on he only seems to have return sporadically to those kind of movies, like The Man Between 1953, Our Man in Havana 1959, The Running Man 1963 and his last movie Follow Me 1972. He won his Oscar for a musical though.
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Post by wmcclain on Apr 12, 2017 18:50:24 GMT
Here's a Carol Reed film I had not heard of before seeing it recently: The Key (1958)
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Post by louise on Apr 12, 2017 20:08:15 GMT
i prefer the lady Vanishes, it's more amusing, but Night train to Munich is good too.
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Post by tarathian123 on Apr 15, 2017 7:49:29 GMT
Love Night Train, but not so keen on The Lady Vanishes. I must be in the minority by saying that I much prefer the Angely Lansbury remake of the latter. That said both adaptations of LV take liberties with the novel on which they're based, "The Wheel Spins" by Ethel Lina White.
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Post by london777 on Apr 15, 2017 16:20:11 GMT
The Night Train to Munich is now on the ever expanding "find and watch" list. BTW this is the kind of comparing thread that I like. Night Train to Munich is in the public domain and is available as a free and legal download. No idea what the quality is like though. I may check it out tonight on my laptop. If anyone here can answer my question in the Legacy Boards/Technology section I would be most grateful. If you mean that films to be compared should have many similarities, I agree with you. No point in asking which is better, West Side Story or The Usual Suspects, but people seem to post that sort of stuff all the time.
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 18, 2017 0:47:26 GMT
I haven't seen the Angela Lansbury version, tarathian123, but I agree with you about loving Night Train. I don't dislike Lady Vanishes at all, far from it, but I knew nothing about Night Train going in, and it was a very pleasant surprise--and, I think, slightly superior. teleadm, thanks for pointing that out! Whew, yes, I should have known that, was obviously typing too fast (as usual, eh, BATouttaheck? ). Still, I suppose, the point remains the same: according to Donald Spoto's book, at least, Hitch wasn't particularly interested in Lady (or in Jamaica Inn, for that matter). He came to the former, if I'm not mistaken, when everything had been completed except the actual filming, a situation far removed from his preferred method, in which he micromanaged the pre-production.
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Post by hi224 on Apr 18, 2017 1:00:22 GMT
i prefer night train to munich
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