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Post by snsurone on Jul 10, 2019 21:02:42 GMT
For the first half (maybe longer) of the 20th century, all air travel was on propeller-driven airplanes.
They were standard in old movies and TV shows.
I can see their usefulness on US travel, but did they have the power for overseas flights?
There was nowhere over the Atlantic or Pacific to stop and refuel.
My memory is faulty; just when did jet planes come into use for overseas trips?
BTW, I'm fascinated by films about WW1 air battles, such as WINGS, THE DAWN PATROL, and HELL'S ANGELS.
I never could understand how those tin cans stayed in the air, let alone perform those great maneuvers!
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Post by mattgarth on Jul 10, 2019 21:11:47 GMT
It was even worse than that. WWI planes were mounted with machine guns that fired forward right through the revolving propellers.
Correction -- make that ALMOST through it! It was calculated that about every seven rounds out of 100 would actually richochet back in the direction of ... (wait for it) ... the pilot!
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Post by snsurone on Jul 10, 2019 21:58:50 GMT
That's horrible, Matt!
I wonder how many WW1 airmen died that way.
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Post by mattgarth on Jul 10, 2019 22:12:04 GMT
More than they acknowledged at the time, I surmise.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jul 10, 2019 23:14:12 GMT
The first transatlantic commercial air passenger service began in mid-1939 with the Boeing B314, dubbed the Yankee Clipper by carrier Pan Am: New York-Marseilles; New York-Southhampton.  Needless to say, the advent of war soon interrupted regular commercial flights. By 1943, Lockheed had developed its C69 Constellation as a military transport; converted to commercial service, the "Connie" began transatlantic flights from New York to Paris in early '46 for carrier TWA.  As the first pressurized passenger liner, the Constellation could fly higher and faster than others had before. The first jet powered craft to enter commercial passenger service was the de Havilland Comet in 1952 for B.O.A.C.  In 1958, both the Douglas DC-8 and Boeing 707 entered commercial service for multiple carriers, and pretty much dominated for over a decade. Astonishing to consider, though, that Boeing's 747, still as ubiquitous as any other craft currently in commercial service, first flew a half-century ago, isn't it? |
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Post by politicidal on Jul 10, 2019 23:45:56 GMT
I kind of still wish we used flying boats like that.
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Post by snsurone on Jul 11, 2019 10:27:37 GMT
I confess that I was a bit saddened when the Concorde stopped running. But too few people were using it, and it lost money steadily. It resembled Rodin from those Japanese monster films,  . |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jul 11, 2019 18:29:51 GMT
I kind of still wish we used flying boats like that. They were quite the thing for luxury. Depending on how they were fitted out, they could accommodate from 36 to 77 passengers. All had dining rooms...  ...and could be configured with berths...  ...staterooms...  ...salons...  ...and even a ladies' lounge.  I took a '30s-vintage seaplane from Catalina Island to San Pedro once; nothing like a Clipper, it seated only six, and oh man, the landing! BANG! I trust the much larger Clippers, the pilots of which were specially-trained crème de la crème, provided a smoother experience.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jul 11, 2019 18:39:30 GMT
snsurone, it occurs to me my earlier reply neglected to address the portion of your post relating to transpacific air travel. With a range of about 3700 miles, Boeing Clippers could manage California-to-Hawaii trips with ease, and once refueled, offered service from there to assorted destinations in the Orient, as they used to say.
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Post by snsurone on Jul 11, 2019 18:40:27 GMT
Dog, I wish your photos would come through on my crummy browser.
I bet they're great!
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jul 11, 2019 18:44:46 GMT
Dog, I wish your photos would come through on my crummy browser. I bet they're great! Oh nerts, I'm sorry about that. They're large image files too; they can sometimes choke my browser. Maybe I can find smaller ones. UPDATE: I've replaced 'em all. Hope they work better.
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Post by sostie on Jul 11, 2019 21:18:07 GMT
It was even worse than that. WWI planes were mounted with machine guns that fired forward right through the revolving propellers. Correction -- make that ALMOST through it! It was calculated that about every seven rounds out of 100 would actually richochet back in the direction of ... (wait for it) ... the pilot! I'm sure you you may have already seen it, but Disney's brilliant Victory Through Air Power shows how they worked around this problem (around the 12 minute mark). The part about the Battle Of Britain is pretty great too.
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Post by Sulla on Jul 11, 2019 21:35:30 GMT
For me the definitive film on that subject is The Blue Max (1966). Real airplanes and before cgi.
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Post by mattgarth on Jul 11, 2019 23:10:22 GMT
Thanks, Sostie -- and yes, I have seen both.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jul 11, 2019 23:50:22 GMT
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Post by vegalyra on Jul 11, 2019 23:58:04 GMT
Pre war the DC-3 could make trans Atlantic flights, but it involved multiple stops, I believe one flight from NYC involved making a stop in St. Johns, Newfoundland and then landing in Iceland and then London. I believe there was a southernly flight too that involved stopping in the Azores before landing in Portugal.
Speaking of the Pan Am Clippers, if you watch Wake Island, the Clipper service stopped there on route to the Orient from the USA before the war with Japan. The last flight out took some of the civilian contractors and wounded back to Hawaii when the Japanese attacked early in WW2.
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Post by vegalyra on Jul 12, 2019 0:06:48 GMT
It was even worse than that. WWI planes were mounted with machine guns that fired forward right through the revolving propellers. Correction -- make that ALMOST through it! It was calculated that about every seven rounds out of 100 would actually richochet back in the direction of ... (wait for it) ... the pilot! Yeah, most of the early types were "pusher" aircraft so the pilot, or a gunner could shoot their guns forward since the propeller was in back of the aircraft. Until the "interupter gear" was perfected by the Germans that was the way most airplanes were built if they were used as fighters and not just reconnaissance. Here is an RAF Fe2 with a later type with a regular situated propeller and forward firing guns, a Sopwith Triplane. 
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Post by vegalyra on Jul 12, 2019 0:11:58 GMT
The first transatlantic commercial air passenger service began in mid-1939 with the Boeing B314, dubbed the Yankee Clipper by carrier Pan Am: New York-Marseilles; New York-Southhampton. Needless to say, the advent of war soon interrupted regular commercial flights. By 1943, Lockheed had developed its C69 Constellation as a military transport; converted to commercial service, the "Connie" began transatlantic flights from New York to Paris in early '46 for carrier TWA. As the first pressurized passenger liner, the Constellation could fly higher and faster than others had before. The first jet powered craft to enter commercial passenger service was the de Havilland Comet in 1952 for B.O.A.C. In 1958, both the Douglas DC-8 and Boeing 707 entered commercial service for multiple carriers, and pretty much dominated for over a decade. Astonishing to consider, though, that Boeing's 747, still as ubiquitous as any other craft currently in commercial service, first flew a half-century ago, isn't it? That "Connie" is beautiful, probably one of the best looking airplanes ever built. I love the shot over the NYC skyline. On another note, the British don't get enough credit for their aviation "firsts", the Canadian Comet in your other photo is a great view of a pioneering aircraft.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jul 12, 2019 2:50:04 GMT
Pre war the DC-3 could make trans Atlantic flights, but it involved multiple stops, I believe one flight from NYC involved making a stop in St. Johns, Newfoundland and then landing in Iceland and then London. I believe there was a southernly flight too that involved stopping in the Azores before landing in Portugal. Speaking of the Pan Am Clippers, if you watch Wake Island, the Clipper service stopped there on route to the Orient from the USA before the war with Japan. The last flight out took some of the civilian contractors and wounded back to Hawaii when the Japanese attacked early in WW2. Thanks for those remarks about the Douglas DC-3. What a reliable, durable, tough and sometimes even miraculous workhorse of an aircraft that was. And still is, in cases that some estimates of currently active ones put in the hundreds. And in only 17 more years, it will have been in use for a century. A truly plucky plane.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jul 12, 2019 3:14:32 GMT
That "Connie" is beautiful, probably one of the best looking airplanes ever built. I agree. With its curvaceous fuselage and gracefully sinuous form, The Constellation almost evokes a flamingo, especially with its unusually long-strutted landing gear down.  Considering later jetliner designs with which we've become more familiar, it's remarkable how close to the fuselage the Comet's engines were placed. But that placement and their aesthetic and aerodynamic integration into the wings gave it an elegant yet efficient appearance.
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