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Post by Sulla on Aug 19, 2019 21:27:35 GMT
I don't really hate them, but there are only a handful which I like. When there's a dramatic scene and they suddenly break into song, it takes me out of the moment and sort of ruins it.
At the same time I can't ezplain why I like Opera which is also a musical. I don't understand. Mongo only pawn in game of life.
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Post by kolchak92 on Aug 19, 2019 21:43:54 GMT
I dont like them. I guess it's because they aren't really a true artificial reality--no one starts singing spontaneously on a rainy street. This is the argument I often see for people who musicals, and that's all well and good, but why do superhero movies get a free pass on this? It just seems like a double standard to me.
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Post by Prime etc. on Aug 19, 2019 21:52:15 GMT
This is the argument I often see for people who musicals, and that's all well and good, but why do superhero movies get a free pass on this? It just seems like a double standard to me. A superhero movie, no matter how badly made, is not breaking reality the way the best quality musical does. It's a special kind of suspension of disbelief, like someone in the movie stopping to talk to the audience every few minutes. The problem with superhero movies is not that it is fantasy, but that they are often so limited in scope and repetitive, or aimed at a wider audience than they were meant to be. Lots of people criticize comic book movies these days.
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Post by kolchak92 on Aug 19, 2019 21:57:59 GMT
This is the argument I often see for people who musicals, and that's all well and good, but why do superhero movies get a free pass on this? It just seems like a double standard to me. A superhero movie, no matter how badly made, is not breaking reality the way the best quality musical does. It's a special kind of suspension of disbelief, like someone in the movie stopping to talk to the audience every few minutes. The problem with superhero movies is not that it is fantasy, but that they are often so limited in scope and repetitive, or aimed at a wider audience than they were meant to be. Lots of people criticize comic book movies these days.
So a superhero movie just gets the benefit of the doubt in forming the rules of its own reality but a musical doesn't? That doesn't makes sense to me and just seems like a double standard. If a character can fly, stop bullets, shapeshift etc., I just don't see how this breaks reality any less then characters singing. I think it's just a way for people to justify their hatred of musicals while excusing other genres that are no more plausible.
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Post by Prime etc. on Aug 19, 2019 22:03:43 GMT
So a superhero movie just gets the benefit of the doubt in forming the rules of its own reality but a musical doesn't? That doesn't makes sense to me and just seems like a double standard. If a character can fly, stop bullets, shapeshift etc., I just don't see how this breaks reality any less then characters singing. I think it's just a way for people to justify their hatred of musicals while excusing other genres that are no more plausible. How is that different from a horror movie with a vampire or werewolf? That is framing its own reality too-same with a science fiction film. But they do not have characters stopping to sing a song which is more of a deviation from reality. It just isn't the same kind of suspension of disbelief. A character who starts singing for no reason is not even adhering to normal behavior assumptions. If you go into a movie about giant ants, you are already suspending your disbelief, but not in the same way, unless the ants start singing.
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Post by kolchak92 on Aug 19, 2019 22:12:52 GMT
So a superhero movie just gets the benefit of the doubt in forming the rules of its own reality but a musical doesn't? That doesn't makes sense to me and just seems like a double standard. If a character can fly, stop bullets, shapeshift etc., I just don't see how this breaks reality any less then characters singing. I think it's just a way for people to justify their hatred of musicals while excusing other genres that are no more plausible. How is that different from a horror movie with a vampire or werewolf? That is framing its own reality too-same with a science fiction film. But they do not have characters stopping to sing a song which is more of a deviation from reality. It just isn't the same kind of suspension of disbelief. A character who starts singing for no reason is not even adhering to normal behavior assumptions. If you go into a movie about giant ants, you are already suspending your disbelief, but not in the same way, unless the ants start singing.
But why can't a movie frame its own reality in which characters sing? This is where you lose me. If we have a movie that exists in a reality where vampires or superheros exist, how is this any different from establishing a reality where characters sing? It just seems to me that you personally don't like movies where characters sing, which is perfectly fine, but if you hold one type of movies to such a standard, then shouldn't other fantastical things be held to this standard as well?
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rogerthat
Sophomore
@rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Aug 19, 2019 22:49:02 GMT
I love musicals!
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 19, 2019 22:53:20 GMT
They rarely (if ever) break into song "for no reason" ! Songs are another way to tell the story and/or express emotions. Dancing too !
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Post by Prime etc. on Aug 19, 2019 23:52:33 GMT
But why can't a movie frame its own reality in which characters sing? This is where you lose me. If we have a movie that exists in a reality where vampires or superheros exist, how is this any different from establishing a reality where characters sing? It just seems to me that you personally don't like movies where characters sing, which is perfectly fine, but if you hold one type of movies to such a standard, then shouldn't other fantastical things be held to this standard as well? There are people who hate superheroes and monster movies and reject them for similar reasons. They cant accept them in a story.
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Post by mortsahlfan on Aug 19, 2019 23:59:53 GMT
It's corny It disrupts the story The music sucks
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Post by marth on Aug 20, 2019 1:09:53 GMT
Cabaret The Sound of Music All That Jazz Hair West Side Story The Phantom of the Opera
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 20, 2019 1:41:33 GMT
It's corny It disrupts the story The music sucks Blanket statement that covers all musicals you have seen ? Surprising.
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maxwellperfect
Junior Member
@maxwellperfect
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Post by maxwellperfect on Aug 20, 2019 4:18:41 GMT
I have nothing against musicals, as a genre. I don't love every musical I watch, of course.
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Post by MCDemuth on Aug 20, 2019 5:38:51 GMT
I think it's just because as far as 'beyond belief' goes, everybody randomly breaking into song and perfectly choreographed dance for any given situation is more farfetched than say...anything else fantastical, then add to the fact most musicals aren't fantasy movies. I don't hate musicals, either... In fact, I do like most songs and dance routines that are featured in them... But, Yeah... It really does get on my nerves when people unrealistically "breaking into song"... I know I am an oddball, in this opinion, but I actually prefer "Grease 2" to "Grease"... Because many of the musical numbers in "Grease 2" are based on rehearsing or performing for the school play, which brings everything back to a kind of normal "reality"... Some other musicals that I have seen and liked were also based on similar "realities" of rehearsing or performing for an audience in the movies.
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Post by MCDemuth on Aug 20, 2019 6:26:36 GMT
But why can't a movie frame its own reality in which characters sing? This is where you lose me. If we have a movie that exists in a reality where vampires or superheros exist, how is this any different from establishing a reality where characters sing? It just seems to me that you personally don't like movies where characters sing, which is perfectly fine, but if you hold one type of movies to such a standard, then shouldn't other fantastical things be held to this standard as well? You missing the key point... Take, Superman. He is a fictional Alien from the planet Krypton, and when Kryptonians are on Earth they can Fly, ETC... And so when we go to see any Superman film, we know Superman can do this... BUT ONLY SUPERMAN CAN DO THIS! It was explained to me, this way: " While Superman can defy the laws of physics, the objects in world around his can not"... That's why in "Superman Returns", the wing of the plane broke, when Superman tried to rescue the plane... And in the 1940s Fleischer Cartoons, Superman had to place every passenger car of a falling train, back onto the tracks one at a time, instead of just whipping it around. You don't see Perry White or Jimmy Olsen or Lois Lance flying around too, because Superman is the scene with them, because they are still humans.When it comes to most musicals... Most of us don't have a problem with Fred Astaire & Ginger Rogers having their magical love dances... The problem most of us have... involves the rest of the people in the community... WHO THEY DON"T KNOW... suddenly joining in on THEIR act, or disappearing during THEIR scene, altogether... Think of it this way... When you sing or dance ( Let's pretend for a moment that you do...) Does your whole neighborhood or school or workplace, suddenly stop what they are doing and join in with you? No they don't! Why? Because John Smith, and Jane Doe, CONTINUE to have no idea who you are... they don't know the lyrics to the song you are singing, and they don't know how to dance like you! So... Why is it, that in movies like: "Grease", for example, that the WHOLE SCHOOL, joins in on the singing and dancing? Superman, flying around on Earth is "believable", because he is from Krypton... EVERYONE at Rydell High School breaking out into choreographed song and dance, because the T-Birds and the Pink Ladies live in their own little reality of "musical story telling", does not make sense...
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Aug 20, 2019 14:34:50 GMT
I used to hate them, or more specifically those old timey musicals. I liked the more modern ones like Grease. But then I got older and wiser and realized they were an art form in which more feelings could be better expressed with a song, if done properly. There are some stinkers out there.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 20, 2019 14:42:39 GMT
The musical sequence feels redundant, like a movie within a movie. It literally recaps what just happened in the previous scenes, as if we couldn't follow the narrative without the song and dance routine. And the songs generally suck. This newer craze featuring contemporary musical sequences is much more tolerable.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 20, 2019 15:22:38 GMT
This newer craze featuring contemporary musical sequences is much more tolerable. I generally like musicals BUT I hated Moulin Rouge and disliked LaLaland and was so disappointed in the Greatest Showman ..mostly because of the distortion of the real events in Barnum's life but also in the "music". Guess that's why they make ice cream in many flavors ... different people like different things and chacun a son gout ! !
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Post by novastar6 on Aug 20, 2019 16:27:02 GMT
I think it's just because as far as 'beyond belief' goes, everybody randomly breaking into song and perfectly choreographed dance for any given situation is more farfetched than say...anything else fantastical, then add to the fact most musicals aren't fantasy movies. I don't hate musicals, either... In fact, I do like most songs and dance routines that are featured in them... But, Yeah... It really does get on my nerves when people unrealistically "breaking into song"... I know I am an oddball, in this opinion, but I actually prefer "Grease 2" to "Grease"... Because many of the musical numbers in "Grease 2" are based on rehearsing or performing for the school play, which brings everything back to a kind of normal "reality"... Some other musicals that I have seen and liked were also based on similar "realities" of rehearsing or performing for an audience in the movies.
Kind of like Scream 2, WTF was the idea behind this stupid asshole deciding in the midst of his girlfriend's friends being murdered left and right it would be a great time to randomly break into song in the cafeteria?
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Post by gljbradley on Aug 20, 2019 16:46:53 GMT
I like some Musicals.
It's just that sometimes, they can take up too much of the runtime. Especially if they seem so tediously irrelevant to the type of story the film is presenting.
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