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Post by pennypacker on Apr 16, 2017 18:01:20 GMT
My parents were far from devout believers, and I wasn't baptized or anything.
But no, I don't think I would have. While I don't know what I believe right now - I just know I don't believe what my parents believe in.
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Post by THawk on Apr 16, 2017 18:20:52 GMT
Well my folks didn't raise me to be an atheist - rather, they just completely ignored religion. I didn't really know or think much about it till I was in my early teens, and when I started to learn about it the whole thing just seemed kind of silly. That's not far from the same thing though. To completely ignore religion, or at least questions of God, eternity, is to take the position that they do not exist, and therefore are not worth discussing. It's a choice and a position on life (a wrong one, in my view.)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 19:30:48 GMT
Well my folks didn't raise me to be an atheist - rather, they just completely ignored religion. I didn't really know or think much about it till I was in my early teens, and when I started to learn about it the whole thing just seemed kind of silly. That's not far from the same thing though. To completely ignore religion, or at least questions of God, eternity, is to take the position that they do not exist, and therefore are not worth discussing. I couldn't disagree more. To ignore religion or questions of god around your kids says nothing about what you believe. Even to this day, I honestly couldn't tell you if my parents believe in god or not. They certainly don't attend church or express membership of any religion, but that's not the same thing. They may be believers, they may not. I just dont know. And I don't really care. It's certainly a choice and a position - but only with regards to what one should teach one's own children. And I think it's a great one - they taught me how to think and then let me decide what to think for myself.
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Post by 🌵 on Apr 16, 2017 19:35:09 GMT
Well my folks didn't raise me to be an atheist - rather, they just completely ignored religion. I didn't really know or think much about it till I was in my early teens, and when I started to learn about it the whole thing just seemed kind of silly. That's not far from the same thing though. To completely ignore religion, or at least questions of God, eternity, is to take the position that they do not exist, and therefore are not worth discussing. It's a choice and a position on life (a wrong one, in my view.) I'm fairly sure that my parents never said anything whatsoever to me about monarch butterflies, Cepheid variables, or the economy of Bhutan. Would you say that they were therefore taking the position that monarch butterflies, Cepheid variables, and the economy of Bhutan do not exist?
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Post by althea on Apr 16, 2017 22:17:32 GMT
My religious beliefs differ from those I was born into, so I'd have to say yes...although I have often wondered if I'd have any religious beliefs at all if I hadn't been raised in a religious family. Again, it makes sense that a person exposed to religion would be more open minded than ones who have not been. Plenty of religious people have decided to become agnostic and atheists too, but the difference would be level of interest in religion in general, not that all religion is so similar as to be interchangeable. Sometimes I see that as some kind of fake argument made. If I had atheists or religiously apathetic parents and was only exposed to the things that interested my parents, it would likely take an invitation from a religion to even acknowledge them or read & research the the Bible by myself. If my parents were theophobiacs, I have no doubt that would have an impact on me as well since all they would talk about is the Crusades & kiddy diddling priests...& imaginary shrimp bans. That last one would get me because I love shrimp. My family didn't just believe in God, we went to church every Sunday and I attended a Catholic school. When my mum was a kid, she wanted to be a nun...(although that might have just been a sound of music fantasy, lol). I have great aunts who are nuns (or were when they were still alive). I think if I'd grown up in one of those families who are Christians at Christmas and Easter and fairly secular the rest of the time, I'd probably still be one of those nominal Christians rather than a pagan. Because I don't think I would have ever examined my beliefs closely enough to realise that they were not really Christian at all.
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Post by THawk on Apr 16, 2017 22:32:18 GMT
That's not far from the same thing though. To completely ignore religion, or at least questions of God, eternity, is to take the position that they do not exist, and therefore are not worth discussing. I couldn't disagree more. To ignore religion or questions of god around your kids says nothing about what you believe. Even to this day, I honestly couldn't tell you if my parents believe in god or not. They certainly don't attend church or express membership of any religion, but that's not the same thing. They may be believers, they may not. I just dont know. And I don't really care. It's certainly a choice and a position - but only with regards to what one should teach one's own children. And I think it's a great one - they taught me how to think and then let me decide what to think for myself. Even if you yourself would disagree, the question of whether one believes in God or not is an important one for those who believe in eternity. If everyone was like your parents and completely kept their belief about God to themselves (if they do believe) and not even their own children knew about it....everything we believe about God would be wiped away. Which would be a tremendous celebration for atheists of course, but dark times for anyone else who has hope in something beyond our fleeting physical existence.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 22:43:07 GMT
Even if you yourself would disagree, the question of whether one believes in God or not is an important one for those who believe in eternity. If everyone was like your parents and completely kept their belief about God to themselves (if they do believe) and not even their own children knew about it....everything we believe about God would be wiped away. Which would be a tremendous celebration for atheists of course, but dark times for anyone else who has hope in something beyond our fleeting physical existence. Unless of course one believed, for example, that each person has to find their own god in their own way, and thus the worst thing one could do to another person was to try and influence their beliefs. Don't make the mistake of thinking it's your way or the highway.
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 17, 2017 1:11:50 GMT
This was a question I used to ask myself when I was actively a devout Mormon. Would I have converted to this faith if I had not been born into a Mormon family? On my mother's side being members of this church only went back to my great grandparents, but my paternal great, great, great grandparents converted in England within the first decade of its existence. I had pioneers that came to Utah in the mid-19th Century except for my maternal grandmother that left Glasgow at the turn of the 20th Century. Several generations that led to my parting company with the faith. Questioning is frowned upon by leaders for it may lead down the road to apostasy. Obviously I would have
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Post by cupcakes on Apr 17, 2017 12:58:18 GMT
tpfkar Who wee'd on your Easter peeps? But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 17, 2017 13:51:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 14:23:38 GMT
This was a question I used to ask myself when I was actively a devout Mormon. Would I have converted to this faith if I had not been born into a Mormon family? On my mother's side being members of this church only went back to my great grandparents, but my paternal great, great, great grandparents converted in England within the first decade of its existence. I had pioneers that came to Utah in the mid-19th Century except for my maternal grandmother that left Glasgow at the turn of the 20th Century. Several generations that led to my parting company with the faith. Questioning is frowned upon by leaders for it may lead down the road to apostasy. Too much evidence points to the likelihood of individuals following the faith of their family. The world is full of examples.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 14:45:39 GMT
It's hard to answer a question you would never really know the answer to. In my circumstance, I really wouldn't know because I'm not against religion or anything and can understand why people are religious and believe in God. I think a lot of it has to do with cultural reasons and/or use God as an inspiration to be a better person. I've already said I've been raised Catholic and there was a mix of wanting to stay Catholic and wanting to be something else..I was always never certain of my faith.. There were also other religions I was interested in and wanted to learn about..but I ended up learning they were all pretty useless for me and didn't see myself fit with any of them.. the bottom line is just that it's hard for me to believe in something just because people tell me to... and even though I was born into Catholicism, I still ended up not choosing it even if it was only a year and a half ago when I made that decision.
But if I wasn't raised Catholic.. I might have actually had a more interest in it, but I still dont think I would have chosen it just like I didn't end up choosing other religions.
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Post by cybajedi on Apr 17, 2017 14:54:11 GMT
What's the definition of theophobiac?
Seen it used here a bit.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 17, 2017 15:03:15 GMT
What's the definition of theophobiac? Seen it used here a bit. The way I use it is someone who irrationally hates &/or displays animosity toward religion and the religious.
A hater of religion and belief.
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Post by cupcakes on Apr 17, 2017 18:08:03 GMT
tpfkar I thought maybe neighborhood phobiacs were digging up the lawn again. However, this word is no big deal. It took me forever to find it after being chastised for using the h-word.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Apr 17, 2017 21:21:55 GMT
My grandfather was a minister of the Church and both my aunts are very religious and have no problem telling people about them. My parents kept their beliefs to themselves - I only came to conclusion that my dad was an atheist after he died when I started going through his book collection and I still don't really know if my mum has any belief or not.
But growing up I had lots of questions about everything and when it came to religion I would ask questions and get "straight" answers - there was no bias, "we believe this, so you should too" or "they believe that, but it's not true". And I specifically remember asking my dad if God was real and him telling me that that was something I had to decide for myself and no-one else could decide that for me. I was seven at the time - I know this because we moved a lot at that time and I remember where I was when I asked him so it makes it very easy to age myself (ironically it was the first time we'd moved to America - the "land of the believer").
And so I've grown up atheist.
My brother has grown up with a slight faith. He was always much closer to the particularly religious aunt than I was so I don't know if that's had any baring on it, and less close to our dad than I was. But largely the same upbringing...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 21:48:58 GMT
What's the definition of theophobiac? Seen it used here a bit. The way I use it is someone who irrationally hates &/or displays animosity toward religion Does it also apply to those who rationally hate religion?
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 17, 2017 22:12:29 GMT
This was a question I used to ask myself when I was actively a devout Mormon. Would I have converted to this faith if I had not been born into a Mormon family? On my mother's side being members of this church only went back to my great grandparents, but my paternal great, great, great grandparents converted in England within the first decade of its existence. I had pioneers that came to Utah in the mid-19th Century except for my maternal grandmother that left Glasgow at the turn of the 20th Century. Several generations that led to my parting company with the faith. Questioning is frowned upon by leaders for it may lead down the road to apostasy. Too much evidence points to the likelihood of individuals following the faith of their family. The world is full of examples. And here is a quote from someone who's looked at the numbers:
"If you have a faith, it is statistically overwhelmingly likely that it is the same faith as your parents and grandparents had. No doubt soaring cathedrals, stirring music, moving stories and parables help a bit. But by far the most important variable determining your religion is the accident of birth. The convictions you so passionately believe would have been a completely different, and largely contradictory, set of convictions, if only you had happened to be born in a different place. Epidemiology, not evidence." Richard Dawkins
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Post by THawk on Apr 17, 2017 22:25:19 GMT
Too much evidence points to the likelihood of individuals following the faith of their family. The world is full of examples. And here is a quote from someone who's looked at the numbers:
"If you have a faith, it is statistically overwhelmingly likely that it is the same faith as your parents and grandparents had. No doubt soaring cathedrals, stirring music, moving stories and parables help a bit. But by far the most important variable determining your religion is the accident of birth. The convictions you so passionately believe would have been a completely different, and largely contradictory, set of convictions, if only you had happened to be born in a different place. Epidemiology, not evidence." Richard Dawkins
On this particular point Dawkins is not really wrong, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to prove. You are also more likely to watch cricket if you were born in India rather than Germany, but so what? It is only problematic for hard conservatives who think that anyone not in their particular group is going to hell.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 17, 2017 22:38:24 GMT
The way I use it is someone who irrationally hates &/or displays animosity toward religion Does it also apply to those who rationally hate religion? How can one rationally hate religion without giving an irrational answer? No one been able to do it yet amongst the ones I consider theophobiacs.
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