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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 15, 2017 4:15:01 GMT
Enjoy. I am intrigued by this book, along with the Book of Jasher (which I understand is accepted as canonical by Ethiopian Christians) and the Book of Jubilees. I suppose TPTB in the Third Century considered it too hot to handle, though, and so it was left out. And I wonder how many on this board besides myself regard evil as a spiritual force (like the Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars), or is evil merely subjective?
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 17, 2017 1:43:45 GMT
Enjoy. I am intrigued by this book, along with the Book of Jasher (which I understand is accepted as canonical by Ethiopian Christians) and the Book of Jubilees. I suppose TPTB in the Third Century considered it too hot to handle, though, and so it was left out. And I wonder how many on this board besides myself regard evil as a spiritual force (like the Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars), or is evil merely subjective? I don't believe that evil is "subjective", but I also don't believe it is a "spiritual force" anymore than happiness, boredom, sexual attraction, or curiosity are "spiritual forces". Evil is merely an expression of immoral thoughts and/or actions driven by emotion. There are no spiritual forces necessary for that.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 17, 2017 2:09:19 GMT
Enjoy. I am intrigued by this book, along with the Book of Jasher (which I understand is accepted as canonical by Ethiopian Christians) and the Book of Jubilees. I suppose TPTB in the Third Century considered it too hot to handle, though, and so it was left out. And I wonder how many on this board besides myself regard evil as a spiritual force (like the Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars), or is evil merely subjective? I don't believe that evil is "subjective", but I also don't believe it is a "spiritual force" anymore than happiness, boredom, sexual attraction, or curiosity are "spiritual forces". Evil is merely an expression of immoral thoughts and/or actions driven by emotion. There are no spiritual forces necessary for that. Do you believe that Christ is the Savior?
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 17, 2017 22:37:38 GMT
I don't believe that evil is "subjective", but I also don't believe it is a "spiritual force" anymore than happiness, boredom, sexual attraction, or curiosity are "spiritual forces". Evil is merely an expression of immoral thoughts and/or actions driven by emotion. There are no spiritual forces necessary for that. Do you believe that Christ is the Savior? What does that have to do with "evil"?
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Post by clusium on Apr 17, 2017 22:40:25 GMT
Enjoy. I am intrigued by this book, along with the Book of Jasher (which I understand is accepted as canonical by Ethiopian Christians) and the Book of Jubilees. I suppose TPTB in the Third Century considered it too hot to handle, though, and so it was left out. And I wonder how many on this board besides myself regard evil as a spiritual force (like the Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars), or is evil merely subjective? Never heard of the Book of Jasher, but, from what I understand, Enoch is accepted by Coptic & Ethiopian Orthodox.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 18, 2017 6:58:06 GMT
Do you believe that Christ is the Savior? What does that have to do with "evil"? Well, it's kind of like this. The word Savior implies that someone needs to be saved from something, yes? If not evil.....then what does humanity need salvation from?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 18, 2017 7:02:19 GMT
Enjoy. I am intrigued by this book, along with the Book of Jasher (which I understand is accepted as canonical by Ethiopian Christians) and the Book of Jubilees. I suppose TPTB in the Third Century considered it too hot to handle, though, and so it was left out. And I wonder how many on this board besides myself regard evil as a spiritual force (like the Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars), or is evil merely subjective? Never heard of the Book of Jasher, but, from what I understand, Enoch is accepted by Coptic & Ethiopian Orthodox. Yes, I believe you're right about that. The Council of Nicaea didn't accept it though. It was considered unnecessary and supposedly filled with contradictions to the Book of Genesis, if I recall correctly.
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 18, 2017 22:21:07 GMT
What does that have to do with "evil"? Well, it's kind of like this. The word Savior implies that someone needs to be saved from something, yes? If not evil.....then what does humanity need salvation from? According to the bible, humanity needs salvation from sin and death, not evil. You really should read the bible more ErJen. Romans 5:12, 17 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 19, 2017 6:54:48 GMT
Well, it's kind of like this. The word Savior implies that someone needs to be saved from something, yes? If not evil.....then what does humanity need salvation from? According to the bible, humanity needs salvation from sin and death, not evil. You really should read the bible more ErJen. Romans 5:12, 17 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ. So you believe that sin exists, but not that evil exists?
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 19, 2017 11:30:26 GMT
The question isn't a matter of whether or not evil "exists". If you go back to the beginning of the discussion, you'll see that I obviously acknowledge the existence of evil. The question is, what is "evil". Is it some supernatural, and conveniently unseen, demonic force, or is it simply the manifestation of immoral thoughts and actions by natural born people. My position is that it is the latter. And in my opinion, suggesting that it is some supernatural force is removing responsibility for ones actions and trying to shift blame to something that we cannot hold accountable. It's that same old "the devil made me do it" argument. The devil didn't make you (hypothetically speaking) do something evil! You did it because you wanted to -- because YOU are evil.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 19, 2017 16:54:39 GMT
The problem I see with that is as follows. If evil is regarded as you say, merely an expression of immoral thoughts and/or actions driven by emotion, anything can be regarded as evil (or not evil) on any given day.
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 19, 2017 17:03:11 GMT
The problem I see with that is as follows. If evil is regarded as you say, merely an expression of immoral thoughts and/or actions driven by emotion, anything can be regarded as evil (or not evil) on any given day. How do -- please elaborate? What is something that may be regarded as evil on Monday, but NOT evil on Tuesday?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 19, 2017 17:31:50 GMT
The problem I see with that is as follows. If evil is regarded as you say, merely an expression of immoral thoughts and/or actions driven by emotion, anything can be regarded as evil (or not evil) on any given day. How do -- please elaborate? What is something that may be regarded as evil on Monday, but NOT evil on Tuesday? Sorry, I don't have one at the moment, but I just looked up Roe versus Wade, and the decision was reached on a Monday. If it had been a Tuesday then that would have been the example you requested. Hopefully the point is made, though.
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Post by gadreel on Apr 19, 2017 18:56:35 GMT
How do -- please elaborate? What is something that may be regarded as evil on Monday, but NOT evil on Tuesday? Sorry, I don't have one at the moment, but I just looked up Roe versus Wade, and the decision was reached on a Monday. If it had been a Tuesday then that would have been the example you requested. Hopefully the point is made, though. Do you hold that morality is objective?
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 19, 2017 20:34:29 GMT
Sorry, I don't have one at the moment, but I just looked up Roe versus Wade, and the decision was reached on a Monday. If it had been a Tuesday then that would have been the example you requested. Hopefully the point is made, though. I don't believe you have. At least not clearly. I'm trying to decipher your assertion that "anything can be regarded as evil (or not evil) on any given day". How exactly does the Roe verses Wade decision address that?
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Post by clusium on Apr 19, 2017 23:49:38 GMT
Never heard of the Book of Jasher, but, from what I understand, Enoch is accepted by Coptic & Ethiopian Orthodox. Yes, I believe you're right about that. The Council of Nicaea didn't accept it though. It was considered unnecessary and supposedly filled with contradictions to the Book of Genesis, if I recall correctly. Yes, & then at the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther edited the Old Testament even further (he was also going to edit the New Testament of a couple of Books, but, in the end, they stayed in).
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dawglf
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Post by dawglf on Apr 20, 2017 0:11:08 GMT
Enjoy. I am intrigued by this book, along with the Book of Jasher (which I understand is accepted as canonical by Ethiopian Christians) and the Book of Jubilees. I suppose TPTB in the Third Century considered it too hot to handle, though, and so it was left out. And I wonder how many on this board besides myself regard evil as a spiritual force (like the Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars), or is evil merely subjective? As sinful, fleshly people, we are by our nature evil. However, the Bible says to resist the devil and to flee from temptation. So while saying the devil made me do it isn't correct because it double can't make us do anything, Satan and his demons do have influence over our lives.
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 20, 2017 1:02:17 GMT
Okay, that's an interesting interpretation. I for the record do not think people are evil by nature. I think some become evil because that's what they learn and eventually come to enjoy. And I also think that anthropomorphizing a concept like evil was done to ease the conscience of those who are truly evil on their own and place blame of invisible forces rather than the guilty party. But you didn't explain your Roe verses Wade comment concerning how something goes from evil one minute to not evil the next.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 20, 2017 6:51:23 GMT
Sorry, I don't have one at the moment, but I just looked up Roe versus Wade, and the decision was reached on a Monday. If it had been a Tuesday then that would have been the example you requested. Hopefully the point is made, though. I don't believe you have. At least not clearly. I'm trying to decipher your assertion that "anything can be regarded as evil (or not evil) on any given day". How exactly does the Roe verses Wade decision address that? It's self-explanatory.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 20, 2017 6:57:17 GMT
Sorry, I don't have one at the moment, but I just looked up Roe versus Wade, and the decision was reached on a Monday. If it had been a Tuesday then that would have been the example you requested. Hopefully the point is made, though. Do you hold that morality is objective? Last I checked, yes.
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