shinnickneth
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@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Oct 17, 2019 13:57:26 GMT
Hey, It's Not How You Start.....It's How You Finish. I would say both are important. Whenever I've watched the OT, I enjoy the journey from 4 to 6. Every part along the way helped the narrative and brought about a satisfying conclusion. Meanwhile, 8 ruined the momentum 7 set up. There's no stakes anymore. The OT characters were laughingly handled, and the new characters were made unlikable/uninteresting. I don't see anything coming to a satisfying conclusion there. They're sluggishly moving to the finish line.
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Post by anthonyrocks on Oct 17, 2019 14:17:01 GMT
Hey, It's Not How You Start.....It's How You Finish. I would say both are important. Whenever I've watched the OT, I enjoy the journey from 4 to 6. Every part along the way helped the narrative and brought about a satisfying conclusion. Meanwhile, 8 ruined the momentum 7 set up. There's no stakes anymore. The OT characters were laughingly handled, and the new characters were made unlikable/uninteresting. I don't see anything coming to a satisfying conclusion there. They're sluggishly moving to the finish line. Well let me just say that when it comes to the Hate and Criticism towards "THE LAST JEDI".....I Absolutely Hate with a Passion how a lot of it was directed towards JJ Abrams and His Crew when they had absolutely nothing to do with the 8th Movie. I also Hate with a Passion the Cruelty and Disrespect that has been shown to the Cast of "THE FORCE AWAKENS" and "THE LAST JEDI" when they had absolutely zero say when it came to everything that happened in the scripts.
Personally, I think that anybody who did not like "THE LAST JEDI" should just direct their anger at only 1 person and that is Rian Johnson who wrote and directed the Movie.
To also go after anybody else for it is just ridiculous.
JJ Abrams and His Crew don't deserve the Insults, Hate, and Disrespect.
The Cast does not deserve the Insults, Hate, and Disrespect.
That is just how I myself feel about it though.
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,514
Likes: 1,782
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Post by shinnickneth on Oct 17, 2019 15:44:10 GMT
Well let me just say that when it comes to the Hate and Criticism towards "THE LAST JEDI".....I Absolutely Hate with a Passion how a lot of it was directed towards JJ Abrams and His Crew when they had absolutely nothing to do with the 8th Movie. I also Hate with a Passion the Cruelty and Disrespect that has been shown to the Cast of "THE FORCE AWAKENS" and "THE LAST JEDI" when they had absolutely zero say when it came to everything that happened in the scripts.
Personally, I think that anybody who did not like "THE LAST JEDI" should just direct their anger at only 1 person and that is Rian Johnson who wrote and directed the Movie.
To also go after anybody else for it is just ridiculous.
JJ Abrams and His Crew don't deserve the Insults, Hate, and Disrespect.
The Cast does not deserve the Insults, Hate, and Disrespect.
That is just how I myself feel about it though.
I agree. I would add that Kathleen Kennedy also deserves half the blame for vetoing Colin Trevorrow, not letting Mark Hamill/George Lucas be a part of the process from the start, and alienating the Star Wars fan base. I actually liked Episode 7. The movie was a lot of fun. Unfortunately, everything that was set-up got gutted afterwards and now I can't enjoy that movie either. It's definitely Johnson and Kennedy's fault. My comment about the trilogy slugging along to the finish line isn't Abrams' fault. He unfortunately has little to work with. Damn shame.
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Post by anthonyrocks on Oct 17, 2019 20:56:58 GMT
Well let me just say that when it comes to the Hate and Criticism towards "THE LAST JEDI".....I Absolutely Hate with a Passion how a lot of it was directed towards JJ Abrams and His Crew when they had absolutely nothing to do with the 8th Movie. I also Hate with a Passion the Cruelty and Disrespect that has been shown to the Cast of "THE FORCE AWAKENS" and "THE LAST JEDI" when they had absolutely zero say when it came to everything that happened in the scripts.
Personally, I think that anybody who did not like "THE LAST JEDI" should just direct their anger at only 1 person and that is Rian Johnson who wrote and directed the Movie.
To also go after anybody else for it is just ridiculous.
JJ Abrams and His Crew don't deserve the Insults, Hate, and Disrespect.
The Cast does not deserve the Insults, Hate, and Disrespect.
That is just how I myself feel about it though.
I agree. I would add that Kathleen Kennedy also deserves half the blame for vetoing Colin Trevorrow, not letting Mark Hamill/George Lucas be a part of the process from the start, and alienating the Star Wars fan base. I actually liked Episode 7. The movie was a lot of fun. Unfortunately, everything that was set-up got gutted afterwards and now I can't enjoy that movie either. It's definitely Johnson and Kennedy's fault. My comment about the trilogy slugging along to the finish line isn't Abrams' fault. He unfortunately has little to work with. Damn shame. I loved "THE FORCE AWAKENS" and I actually still love it.
That being said....JJ Abrams is a very smart filmmaker (He convinced me of that with his 2009 "STAR TREK" Movie) and I think that he, Chris Terrio, and George Lucas will make things right again with "THE RISE OF SKYWALKER".
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Post by Prime etc. on Oct 17, 2019 21:14:04 GMT
His son could be named Zoidberg and studying to be a doctor.
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shinnickneth
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@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Oct 18, 2019 16:32:40 GMT
I loved "THE FORCE AWAKENS" and I actually still love it.
That being said....JJ Abrams is a very smart filmmaker (He convinced me of that with his 2009 "STAR TREK" Movie) and I think that he, Chris Terrio, and George Lucas will make things right again with "THE RISE OF SKYWALKER". He is. Abrams also wrote my favorite Harrison Ford movie, Regarding Henry. I have no doubt the guy is talented. The sequel trilogy is just unsalvageable at this point, in my opinion. There's nothing left story wise that is compelling or I'm excited about.
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Post by anthonyrocks on Oct 18, 2019 17:37:29 GMT
I loved "THE FORCE AWAKENS" and I actually still love it.
That being said....JJ Abrams is a very smart filmmaker (He convinced me of that with his 2009 "STAR TREK" Movie) and I think that he, Chris Terrio, and George Lucas will make things right again with "THE RISE OF SKYWALKER". He is. Abrams also wrote my favorite Harrison Ford movie, Regarding Henry. I have no doubt the guy is talented. The sequel trilogy is just unsalvageable at this point, in my opinion. There's nothing left story wise that is compelling or I'm excited about. "There's nothing left story wise that is compelling or I'm excited about." -------------------------------------
If you don't mind me asking, Was there anything that was left story wise that was compelling after "RETURN OF THE JEDI" and before you saw "THE FORCE AWAKENS" for the first time ?
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shinnickneth
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@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,514
Likes: 1,782
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Post by shinnickneth on Oct 18, 2019 21:41:45 GMT
If you don't mind me asking, Was there anything that was left story wise that was compelling after "RETURN OF THE JEDI" and before you saw "THE FORCE AWAKENS" for the first time ?
Hmmm an unfair comparison as Episode 6 was the end of the OT, so Lucas was able to wrap-up storylines. A much better comparison is Episode 8 to Episode 5, as both episodes are the middle installments of a trilogy. Plus that's the position Abrams currently finds himself in now taking over from the mess Johnson made with 8. So let's compare the difference between their (Lucas/Johnson's) handling of the story: George Lucas was smart with Episode 5 and didn't gut his trilogy before its swan song. He didn't kill off all his heroes, make the remaining ones left alive as unlikable/uninteresting, or kill off his "big bad" before the last movie. Imagine how unfortunate it would be if we didn't have The Emperor/Vader/Luke throne room scenes due to Palpatine being knocked off carelessly in 5...we wouldn't know about the scenes in that alternate reality of course, but I'm glad it didn't happen. Lucas didn't write in superfluous scenes instead of sticking to the heart of the characters/story (how Johnson could have a loooooong sequence focused on stupid CGI animals on a race track over showing Luke's reaction to Han's death was just awful). Lucas left off the script for Episode 5 with Han in carbonite (alive though as Lando confirms), the Rebellion still in tact, Luke/Leia/Droids/Lando/Chewbacca united in hope towards a goal (to beat the Empire & rescue their friend), Vader ready to finish off his prey (we also found out a lot more information about him in 5 like his breathing chamber, his way of controlling his underlings, his connection to Luke, etc.), the Empire having a "win" (bringing a strong adversary into the conclusion of Episode 6), and the Emperor teased for the remaining movie. That's a lot to build off. Johnson didn't give that to Abrams with the ending to 8. He cashed his check and hopped out of there like he was fleeing from a bank heist. To answer your question in your post anyway : Oh yes! It was certainly compelling thinking about all the different possibilities - everything was open ended in terms of what the characters will do (even down to a lot of Stormtroopers and upper level Imperial officers getting away) after 6. It's the reason why when the Thrawn trilogy came out, it was a huge hit making the New York Times list. People wanted more. That's a compelling story. Episode 6 added to the galaxy instead of taking away like 8 did. The same goes for Episode 5 leading into 6.
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