thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Oct 22, 2019 14:43:01 GMT
I chose to start this thread on the film general board because I felt there will be a more fair and balanced response than if I posted this on a marvel or dc board.
So in the year 1997- Batman and Robin happened. We know the story and the death of the superhero genre.
In a deep thought to this massive superhero backlash 22 years later, we can say the genre is now in a place that is much much worse than batman and Robin. but there was a time when superhero movies got a lot of love with less hate. this came with Blade 98 but Blade was too linked with the vampire genre to get the attention. however that all changed with X-Men 2000 that brought a more realistic brasher gritter take on comic movies driven more by story and themes than massive cgi fest and theme park feels. A very unforgettable scene in the opening state of the movie that starts with Nazis camps that changed how we saw comic films forever and for the better.
When scorsese say, MCU movies were like theme parks. I think back to when Marvel movies looked more like this in year 2000, 2 years fresh off saving private Ryan.
Things got better with Spiderman 2002, although not as dark or as realistic driven as X-Men 1, it found a balance of colourful superhero High budget action packed film, fun, drama, some campiness and seriousness and well directed by the great Sam Raimi. both movies had sequels X2 and Spiderman 2 that outdid their originals. pushing the genre to new heights.
Then came Nolan in 2005 with batman begins, and TDK in 2008. But among these marvel and DC movies , we still had films like V for Vendetta, Sin City and Watchmen in the mix that gave the genre more flavour beyond well known marvel and DC heroes like batman, xmen and spiderman. 2008 was perhaps the last era for this and at this time, most directors never said anything about the genre, many praised it and were inspired by how some comic movies took itself so seriously and could tackle many serious subject matters like racism, crime, prejudice. this was also an era where superhero movies never had this massive CGI big battles. or the cgi battle was contained to give more focus to the characters.
Things changed with the birth of the MCU in 2008 and the genre got hammered. there were still some movies in 2009-2019 that reminded us of the 1998-2008 era such as Days of future past, the dark Knight rises, spiderverse and Logan but these movies were not enough to set the genre back on the right track, the access MCU biased media had already made up their minds that MCU is now the place to go. a lie they put in motion. for this, the genre is kind of artistically dead again like the year 1997. all what Scorsese and Copella are doing is making sure it now stays dead.
As a tribute to the 1998-2008 era of superhero movies.
X-Men 1 X-Men 2 Spiderman Spiderman 2 Batman Begins TDK Blade Blade 2 Unbreakable
V for Vendetta Sin City Watchmen
One great benefit was these movies were not part of a cinematic universe like MCU or DCU. So it helped the quality of their movies and gave their directors more freedom to do what they wanted meaning there was more artistic effort to them and their movies been all manufactured.
So shall we just celebrate the superhero movies of 1998-2008 as the best era of comic movies.
Please free FREE to post some of your highlights from the era of comic movies. I will be doing so.
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thenolan
Sophomore
@thenolan
Posts: 778
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Post by thenolan on Oct 22, 2019 14:48:09 GMT
Some of my highlights
This are not theme park comedy movies.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Oct 22, 2019 18:50:53 GMT
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Post by ck100 on Oct 22, 2019 19:04:13 GMT
Not a bad choice for an ideal time period.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 19:22:14 GMT
You missed X-Men 3, Spiderman 3, Blade 3, both Fantastic 4's. You missed Hulk, Daredevil, Elektra, Ghost Rider, The Punisher and Superman Returns. The 3rd installment of each franchise you missed especially stands out because if I didn't know better, I'd swear you left them out so they don't drag down the average.
Why else would such obvious entries be missing but V for Vendetta, Sin City and Watchmen are there? If those 3 are superhero movies it's news to me.
edited to add: I looked it up. Apparently Watchmen is a superhero movie. You learn something new every day, including the fact it's from 2009.
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thenolan
Sophomore
@thenolan
Posts: 778
Likes: 162
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Post by thenolan on Oct 22, 2019 19:44:32 GMT
Not a bad choice for an ideal time period. Quoted for facts.
It was an ideal time period. Obviously because there was no such thing as a cinematic universe of comic movies, Disney was not powerful and buying things. movies had more freedom. there also was the batman and Robin stigma that comic films had to run from, so the standard for comic films were higher then unlike now with the Disney manufactured movies.
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Post by politicidal on Oct 22, 2019 20:37:52 GMT
You missed X-Men 3, Spiderman 3, Blade 3, both Fantastic 4's. You missed Hulk, Daredevil, Elektra, Ghost Rider, The Punisher and Superman Returns. The 3rd installment of each franchise you missed especially stands out because if I didn't know better, I'd swear you left them out so they don't drag down the average.
Why else would such obvious entries be missing but V for Vendetta, Sin City and Watchmen are there? If those 3 are superhero movies it's news to me.
edited to add: I looked it up. Apparently Watchmen is a superhero movie. You learn something new every day, including the fact it's from 2009.
I made the same point last week but good ol’ Spock was lost in his clipping and pasting to notice. |
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Post by marth on Oct 22, 2019 23:08:33 GMT
It could be, my favorite superhero movies Batman Begins and The Dark Knight (along with Superman/Superman II) belong to this decade.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 23, 2019 0:02:14 GMT
I think it was at it's most creative during this time period, but that is in part because a lot of what came after is either MCU or just retreading the same stories that we JUST were given. Also there were more creative filmmakers directing them during that time period, like Ang Lee, Sam Raimi, Bryan Singer, Guillermo Del Toro and Christopher Nolan.
I mean this year we got a retelling of the Dark Phoenix saga that was worse than X-Men: The Last Stand.
We now have had 2 Spider-Man reboots since 2012.
We are now on our 6th version of Batman since 1989.
They are much more mass marketed now and feel more like product than art. There was a certain artistry and down to Earth quality to many of the comic book movies made in between 1998 and 2008 that is missing from many of the comic book movies that came after. The directing and writing styles were much more distinguishable from each other before the MCU and the DCEU.
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Post by James on Oct 23, 2019 0:37:43 GMT
I get it that they were a lot less formulaic with having their franchises just be that and not part of a cinematic universe, and not many reboots were being made, but the genre still needed a certain quality control. Now, I like movies like X3, SM3 and Blade: Trinity as guilty pleasures and they do hold special places in my heart, but I even admit that they are a bit sloppily done. At least the MCU movies for the most part have kept their consistency in quality, and at this point a lot of superhero movies are much more respected now than it has ever been because of the MCU.
Also, just keep in mind that if you’re gonna call MCU movies as kiddie, fine, but don’t have the audacity to make your grammar look kiddie itself while you’re at it. It’s very hypocritical.
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Post by politicidal on Oct 23, 2019 0:47:36 GMT
I get it that they were a lot less formulaic with having their franchises just be that and not part of a cinematic universe, and not many reboots were being made, but the genre still needed a certain quality control. Now, I like movies like X3, SM3 and Blade: Trinity as guilty pleasures and they do hold special places in my heart, but I even admit that they are a bit sloppily done. At least the MCU movies for the most part have kept their consistency in quality, and at this point a lot of superhero movies are much more respected now than it has ever been because of the MCU.Also, just keep in mind that if you’re gonna call MCU movies as kiddie, fine, but don’t have the audacity to make your grammar look kiddie itself while you’re at it. It’s very hypocritical. My thoughts exactly. Many of my favorite superhero films came from this era too. But as I said before, which the OP predictably ignored, the chance for mediocrity was far greater back then compared with today. And studios played it incredibly safe back then. Today, formerly obscure characters like Groot and Rocket Raccoon are now pop culture mainstays on par with Spider-Man and Captain America. That's wondrous progress.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 23, 2019 1:28:41 GMT
I get it that they were a lot less formulaic with having their franchises just be that and not part of a cinematic universe, and not many reboots were being made, but the genre still needed a certain quality control. Now, I like movies like X3, SM3 and Blade: Trinity as guilty pleasures and they do hold special places in my heart, but I even admit that they are a bit sloppily done. At least the MCU movies for the most part have kept their consistency in quality, and at this point a lot of superhero movies are much more respected now than it has ever been because of the MCU.Also, just keep in mind that if you’re gonna call MCU movies as kiddie, fine, but don’t have the audacity to make your grammar look kiddie itself while you’re at it. It’s very hypocritical. My thoughts exactly. Many of my favorite superhero films came from this era too. But as I said before, which the OP predictably ignored, the chance for mediocrity was far greater back then compared with today. And studios played it incredibly safe back then. Today, formerly obscure characters like Groot and Rocket Raccoon are now pop culture mainstays on par with Spider-Man and Captain America. That's wondrous progress. Oh, I agree that the chance for mediocrity was higher (though not by much imo) but 1998-2008 had much higher highs. Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2 etc. are like The Godfather/Citizen Kane of the genre. After 2008 we still had the DCEU debacle, Ghost Rider 2, Michael Bay's TMNT movies, the infamously bad Fantastic 4 and many more less than good comic book movies. Daredevil is more interesting as a failure than most MCU movies are as successes.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 23, 2019 1:43:20 GMT
I get it that they were a lot less formulaic with having their franchises just be that and not part of a cinematic universe, and not many reboots were being made, but the genre still needed a certain quality control. Now, I like movies like X3, SM3 and Blade: Trinity as guilty pleasures and they do hold special places in my heart, but I even admit that they are a bit sloppily done. At least the MCU movies for the most part have kept their consistency in quality, and at this point a lot of superhero movies are much more respected now than it has ever been because of the MCU. Also, just keep in mind that if you’re gonna call MCU movies as kiddie, fine, but don’t have the audacity to make your grammar look kiddie itself while you’re at it. It’s very hypocritical. Here is an interesting thought. People fight for what they like and want to see succeed and you would probably fight for the MCU whereas I would fight more for smaller more artistic movies.
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Post by Prime etc. on Oct 23, 2019 1:48:42 GMT
Superman the Movie was well-received. Although a little jokey I do not think anyone--including Scorsese or Coppola, would say the characterization lacks care or impact. I thought Wolverine 2013 was very well-directed. Good action scenes, decent character interactions--then again I don't think of it as a costumed superhero movie, more like a guy with a genetic mutation who has various adventures in Japan. A MCU movie is nothing like Superman 78. It just does not have the same gravitas in drama or suspense. And there are so many of them.  |
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Post by James on Oct 23, 2019 1:51:27 GMT
I get it that they were a lot less formulaic with having their franchises just be that and not part of a cinematic universe, and not many reboots were being made, but the genre still needed a certain quality control. Now, I like movies like X3, SM3 and Blade: Trinity as guilty pleasures and they do hold special places in my heart, but I even admit that they are a bit sloppily done. At least the MCU movies for the most part have kept their consistency in quality, and at this point a lot of superhero movies are much more respected now than it has ever been because of the MCU. Also, just keep in mind that if you’re gonna call MCU movies as kiddie, fine, but don’t have the audacity to make your grammar look kiddie itself while you’re at it. It’s very hypocritical. Here is an interesting thought. People fight for what they like and want to see succeed and you would probably fight for the MCU whereas I would fight more for smaller more artistic movies. That’s just another way of saying that there are different kinds of movies that people want to see more of as opposed to others. It’s just a way of arguing, but not to change the other’s mind. |
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 23, 2019 1:54:02 GMT
Here is an interesting thought. People fight for what they like and want to see succeed and you would probably fight for the MCU whereas I would fight more for smaller more artistic movies. That’s just another way of saying that there are different kinds of movies that people want to see more of as opposed to others. It’s just a way of arguing, but not to change the other’s mind. Is there any way I can change another person's mind in this case though? If there was I would do it. I would like a world of movies where everything gets equal attention, but Disney has made that impossible.
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Post by James on Oct 23, 2019 2:00:29 GMT
That’s just another way of saying that there are different kinds of movies that people want to see more of as opposed to others. It’s just a way of arguing, but not to change the other’s mind. Is there any way I can change another person's mind in this case though? If there was I would do it. I mean you can change one’s mind but it depends on how that person feels about their own thoughts. If that person can’t come to terms with your own opinion even after you tried to convince them cause of them strongly believing what they believe, then it’s only suitable to agree to disagree.I agree. It’s much more apparent that it’s very unlikely now, than it was back then. |
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Post by OldAussie on Oct 23, 2019 5:57:46 GMT
I'd go with 1978/1978
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Post by sostie on Oct 23, 2019 18:12:58 GMT
You missed X-Men 3, Spiderman 3, Blade 3, both Fantastic 4's. You missed Hulk, Daredevil, Elektra, Ghost Rider, The Punisher and Superman Returns. The 3rd installment of each franchise you missed especially stands out because if I didn't know better, I'd swear you left them out so they don't drag down the average.
That he included Iron Man amongst that shite, by excluding it from his list just exposes his know (on other boards) his anti MCU stance
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Oct 23, 2019 18:15:12 GMT
You missed X-Men 3, Spiderman 3, Blade 3, both Fantastic 4's. You missed Hulk, Daredevil, Elektra, Ghost Rider, The Punisher and Superman Returns. The 3rd installment of each franchise you missed especially stands out because if I didn't know better, I'd swear you left them out so they don't drag down the average.
Why else would such obvious entries be missing but V for Vendetta, Sin City and Watchmen are there? If those 3 are superhero movies it's news to me.
edited to add: I looked it up. Apparently Watchmen is a superhero movie. You learn something new every day, including the fact it's from 2009.
Still waiting for thenolan to reply to this.
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