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Post by snsurone on Nov 4, 2019 12:49:35 GMT
This is the made-for-TV movie that ended the series M*A*S*H. MeTV is airing it 11/11/19 (Veterans' Day).
It still holds the record as the most-watched episode in TV history.
I have mixed feelings about it. Yes, it was great to have filmed an episode that wrapped up a series that lasted longer than the Korean War did. But I confess that it was overlong (at least 30 minutes could have been cut), and I never could understand Hawkeye's breakdown which led him to sessions with Dr. Sydney Friedman, the psychiatrist. After all, it was the Korean woman who was forced to smother her baby to death; why was Hawkeye riddled with guilt? Because he believed the baby was a chicken??? Someone I used to work with told me that soldiers in Viet Nam would not hesitate to break babies' necks if they revealed the soldiers' hiding places. Could be the reason why Viet vets were labelled "baby killers" by those who couldn't grasp the horror these men went through. I was saddened that Charles gave up his love of music after the POW's he taught were all killed. Charles was one of my favorite characters on the show; he developed from a Boston snob to a true empathetic human being; something that never happened to Frank Burns.
Moreover, wouldn't they all have met in Seoul for de-briefing before shipping home? They could have exchanged addresses and phone numbers and kept in touch--for a time. Think of the MGM movie IT'S ALWAYS FAIR WEATHER, which touched on the theme of three WWII friends who promised to reconnect ten years later, only to find they had nothing in common any more. The same could have been said of the M*A*S*H crew.
Col. Potter, Corp. Klinger, and Fr. Mulcahey did reunite for AFTERM*A*S*H, while Pernell Roberts became Chief Surgeon in San Francisco on TRAPPER JOHN, M.D.
I'd appreciate your opinions about this movie.
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Post by marianne48 on Nov 4, 2019 14:12:37 GMT
The original plan was for the last episode to be shorter--90 minutes or so. Once CBS realized what a ratings-grabber it would be, the running time kept increasing until it ran, with commercial breaks, for 2 1/2 hours. That might explain its sometimes sluggish pace; they were reluctant to edit it more tightly. The Hawkeye story line was predictably tiresome; the other stories were okay, but the most effectively heartwrenching one for me was the one with Charles and the musicians.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Nov 4, 2019 16:44:09 GMT
Posting this in honor of our missing (and missed) nit-picker-in-chief Hobnob This was NOT a made for tv movie it was presented in sequence as Season 11 Episode 16 "Originally slated to be 90 minutes, then two hours, the finale incorporated an unexpected real fire at the Fox Ranch. Writers and producers incorporated scenes, expanding the original story line by another 30 minutes, for a 2.5-hour episode that ended the series." "With approximately 125 million viewers, this overtook Dallas: Who Done It? (1980) to become the most-watched television broadcast in American history--50.15 million households, or 60.2%, watched, giving it a Neilsen share of 77%."
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Post by louise on Nov 4, 2019 16:52:54 GMT
I didn't like it, much too sentimental and not enough humour. But M.A.S.H. was years past its best by then anyway. The last few seasons of most American sitcoms tend to be dire, they always go on much too long. And given that the Korean war lasted barely three years, the whole thing was getting more and more surreal as the actors were plainly years older by then.
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Post by WarrenPeace on Nov 4, 2019 17:20:20 GMT
I didn't like it, much too sentimental and not enough humour. But M.A.S.H. was years past its best by then anyway. The last few seasons of most American sitcoms tend to be dire, they always go on much too long. And given that the Korean war lasted barely three years, the whole thing was getting more and more surreal as the actors were plainly years older by then.Yeah, something that bothers me about the series is that they had more Christmas episodes than the real conflict. They should have had just two and done through the years instead of one right after the other. But TV being TV they follow in the TV tradition of having an annual Christmas themed show just like every other TV program.
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Post by msdemos on Nov 4, 2019 18:35:51 GMT
Found your thoughts interesting. This was a VERY memorable moment in tv history not only for me, but also a lot of people across the country. And, as 'uneven' as it was, I still found it somehow satisfying.....if for no other reason, thanks to that AMAZING sight of B.J's message to Hawkeye, which he saw from the air, as he departed his Korean "home" forever........nicely putting a 'button' on this show's VERY long journey: And I'll always remember the night this first aired ( February 28, 1983) because I spent (almost) ALL OF IT, as well as the early morning hours following it (I had A LOT of ground to make up!), studying INCREDIBLY hard for mid-terms on the campus of Marquette U., EXCEPT for the 2 hours I took to walk over to the Union to watch and enjoy this, and the MUCH needed godsend of a break it provided !! It still holds the record as the most-watched episode in TV history.
According to Wikipedia: In the United States, the episode drew 105.97 million total viewers and a total audience of 121.6 million (though, personally, I'm not really sure what, exactly, differentiates the amount of viewers a show "draws", versus it's "total audience", as indicated by the two very different figures here....). What's even more amazing about this record setting number, is the fact that given it's place in time, and the increasing fragmentation of broadcast TV audiences, due (mainly) to the internet and the acceleration of entertainment streaming/downloading, it's becoming increasingly likely that no scripted TV show will ever again come even CLOSE to numbers like these! Someone I used to work with told me that soldiers in Viet Nam would not hesitate to break babies' necks if they revealed the soldiers' hiding places.Just a quick question for anyone that might have an idea, but given this show's storyline including a mentally 'confused' Hawkeye mistaking a crying child for a squawking chicken, and the comment above, I have to wonder just how many crying babies there were in all these wars that seemed to be giving people's hiding places away to the enemy ??!??!?? I was saddened that Charles gave up his love of music after the POW's he taught were all killed.
I always admired how they used this particular part of the plot to underscore, one last time, the absolute random senselessness of war, and what a horrific affect it has had on countless lives, as so beautifully portrayed by the devastated spirit of David Ogden Stiers' character, and the profound impact it would forever have, on his "life" from that point on. Moreover, wouldn't they all have met in Seoul for de-briefing before shipped home?Obviously, as logical as something like this might seem, because it was not conducive to this particular storyline, out it went !! Capt. Potter, Corp. Klinger, and Ftr. Mulcahey did reunite for AFTERM*A*S*H, while Pernell Roberts became Chief Surgeon in San Francisco on TRAPPER JOHN, M.D.Given the CRAZY amount of reboots, returns, and rebirths of old TV shows these days, how COOL would it have been if this show's producers had had the foresight, and opportunity to come up with one final "visit" (via a VERY special made-for-tv movie) with all of the M*A*S*H characters, 10 years (or more) after the end of the war, just to let us know how, and where, all their lives ended up going......before too many of the actor/actresses died, which sadly has now come to pass, thus making this pretty much impossible.... SAVE FERRIS
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Post by MCDemuth on Nov 4, 2019 19:50:50 GMT
I never could understand Hawkeye's breakdown which led him to sessions with Dr. Sydney Friedman, the psychiatrist. After all, it was the Korean woman who was forced to smother her baby to death; why was Hawkeye riddled with guilt?Because he believed the baby was a chicken??? Someone I used to work with told me that soldiers in Viet Nam would not hesitate to break babies' necks if they revealed the soldiers' hiding places. Could be the reason why Viet vets were labelled "baby killers" by those who couldn't grasp the horror these men went through. Hawkeye told the mother to keep her baby "Quiet", and so, the mother killed her own baby... And so, Hawkeye believed it WAS his fault, that the baby was killed... Hawkeye was so traumatized by this act, that he blocked it out... As Sidney started to get Hawkeye to remember... He first remembered it as a being a Chicken which see killed, in order to still live with it... "Kill the chicken" (Not the baby)... and then as Sidney kept pushing him to remember more, He finally remembered the truth.
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 4, 2019 21:55:41 GMT
I didn't like it, much too sentimental and not enough humour. But M.A.S.H. was years past its best by then anyway. The last few seasons of most American sitcoms tend to be dire, they always go on much too long. And given that the Korean war lasted barely three years, the whole thing was getting more and more surreal as the actors were plainly years older by then. That's why "Maude" and "The Golden Girls" (I believe) lasted 6 and 7 seasons, respectively. Bea Arthur did not want to see these two great sitcoms get stale and tired. So, she quit and without her, TGG would not have been the same and "Maude" would have been pointless. But I don't like MASH, never did. At least not as a comedy. It always seemed more like drama with a few amusing observations here and there. Not a bad show, just not very entertaining.
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Post by dirtypillows on Nov 4, 2019 22:01:52 GMT
This is the made-for-TV movie that ended the series M*A*S*H. MeTV is airing it 11/11/19. It still holds the record as the most-watched episode in TV history. I have mixed feelings about it. Yes, it was great to have filmed an episode that wrapped up a series that lasted longer than the Korean War did. But I confess that it was overlong (at least 30 minutes could have been cut), and I never could understand Hawkeye's breakdown which led him to sessions with Dr. Sydney Friedman, the psychiatrist. After all, it was the Korean woman who was forced to smother her baby to death; why was Hawkeye riddled with guilt? Because he believed the baby was a chicken???Someone I used to work with told me that soldiers in Viet Nam would not hesitate to break babies' necks if they revealed the soldiers' hiding places. Could be the reason why Viet vets were labelled "baby killers" by those who couldn't grasp the horror these men went through. I was saddened that Charles gave up his love of music after the POW's he taught were all killed. Charles was one of my favorite characters on the show; he developed from a Boston snob to a true empathetic human being; something that never happened to Frank Burns. Moreover, wouldn't they all have met in Seoul for de-briefing before shipped home? They could have exchanged addresses and phone numbers and kept in touch--for a time. Think of the MGM movie IT'S ALWAYS FAIR WEATHER, which touched on the theme of three WWII friends who promised to reconnect ten years later, only to find they had nothing in common any more. The same could have been said of the M*A*S*H crew. Capt. Potter, Corp. Klinger, and Ftr. Mulcahey did reunite for AFTERM*A*S*H, while Pernell Roberts became Chief Surgeon in San Francisco on TRAPPER JOHN, M.D. I'd appreciate your opinions about this movie. Hawkeye thought the baby was a chicken? Huh? I thought he was a doctor. I don't get it. Though I never saw the episode. My biggest problem with MASH is it's super low on laughs and Alan Alda who certainly should feel guilty. Guilt suits him. (jk) Oh, I don't hate him because he is not a hateful person, but he is so sanctimonious and unfunny. He was my least favorite character in "The Four Seasons", a movie I otherwise liked a lot.
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Post by snsurone on Nov 4, 2019 22:23:42 GMT
I didn't like it, much too sentimental and not enough humour. But M.A.S.H. was years past its best by then anyway. The last few seasons of most American sitcoms tend to be dire, they always go on much too long. And given that the Korean war lasted barely three years, the whole thing was getting more and more surreal as the actors were plainly years older by then. That's true for drama programs too, louise. IMO, LAW & ORDER, SVU should have been cancelled when Chris Meloni left.
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Post by london777 on Nov 5, 2019 4:56:02 GMT
I have to wonder just how many crying babies there were in all these wars that seemed to be giving people's hiding places away to the enemy? SAVE FERRISThis painful topic crops up in Defiance (2008) dir: Edward Zwick, about WWII Belorussian resistance fighters hiding in the forests.
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on Nov 6, 2019 6:54:54 GMT
I haven't watched this in a long time, so my memory of it is a bit vague, but I do recall that the part with Charles and the musicians was the part that got to me the most, emotionally. I always remember his line, "He wasn't even a solider...he was a musician." (David Ogden Stiers brought so much to the role on Charles Emerson Winchester III).
It was ironic ( or was it?) that his mode of transportation out of there was a garbage truck.
I also thought B.J.'s almost losing it during his final exchange with Hawkeye was sadder than his 'GOODBYE' sign he left (though that was a nice moment as well, with making the audience think for a moment Hawkeye wouldn't see it. I'm sure if it was done today, they'd have him miss seeing it or leave it ambiguous as to whether he saw it or not).
I felt sorry for Father Mulcahy, that he lost his hearing.
The kiss between Hawkeye and Hot Lips was mainly amusing due to B.J.'s, Charles' and Potter's reactions.
The whole storyline with Hawkeye and the 'chicken' always annoyed me more than anything.
And that's^ about the majority of the stuff I remember from it. It may have been a 'long' series final, but so many series finals for shows don't seem to have enough time to wrap things up properly/often feel rushed, so I guess the show decided if it was going to be the last ever episode, might as well make the most of it.
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Post by snsurone on Nov 6, 2019 11:47:54 GMT
I didn't like it, much too sentimental and not enough humour. But M.A.S.H. was years past its best by then anyway. The last few seasons of most American sitcoms tend to be dire, they always go on much too long. And given that the Korean war lasted barely three years, the whole thing was getting more and more surreal as the actors were plainly years older by then. That's true for drama programs too, louise. IMO, LAW & ORDER, SVU should have been cancelled when Chris Meloni left. Um, I also corrected Potter's unmerited "demotion" on the OP.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Nov 7, 2019 14:12:13 GMT
I remember watching this, it was actually on my 13th birthday. Even as a kid I thought it strange that there was a laugh track for a show filmed on location.
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Post by pippinmaniac on Nov 8, 2019 3:32:15 GMT
I remember where I was when it aired. I was sitting on the staircase in my dormitory lobby because every seat was taken. Our lobby was full of students watching the final episode. It felt like the end of an era.
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