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Post by Feologild Oakes on Nov 28, 2019 19:16:39 GMT
I was only 12 when the movie came out and i did not know that M was originally a man. But i wonder did people complain that they made M a woman in GoldenEye?
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Post by amyghost on Nov 28, 2019 19:21:13 GMT
Die-hard chauvinism. Imagine Bond being subservient to a female superior! But I liked Judy Dench; she was one of the few things that made the Brosnan Bonds even slightly tolerable, and she was a grace note in the Craig ones as well--I thought killing her off in Skyfall was a huge mistake.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Nov 28, 2019 19:31:32 GMT
There must have been people complaining in bulletin boards, but unlike today, at the time opinions on social media did not get any mainstream exposure.
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Post by kolchak92 on Nov 28, 2019 19:38:23 GMT
Well I think the intent was different, as it was not done to appease the SJWs, merely because they wanted Judi Dench in the role.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 28, 2019 19:44:19 GMT
I think that was kind of the point, Bond was pretty much always presented as a chauvinistic womanizer, often seen by many as a dinosaur of the past (M even points this out in one of the films). Now he's having to take orders from a woman, what he can possibly do? It was essentially a deconstruction of Bond, a product of the early 1960s trying to acclimate himself to the more progressive 90s (this idea is also explored in the James Bond parody Austin Powers). They even take this a step further in Skyfall when the villain makes a gay pass at him to make him uncomfortable.
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Post by johnspartan on Nov 28, 2019 20:38:04 GMT
There still hasn't been sufficient outrage over THIS atrocity against Bond...
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Post by Ass_E9 on Nov 28, 2019 20:59:53 GMT
November 17, 1995 at 12:01amPosted by VDZukovskyI hear the new M is a lady! November 17, 1995 at 12:03amPosted by BONDageFan007:  November 17, 1995 at 12:04amPosted by MyNameIsElbaIdrisElba: Finally!  It's about time for a black Bond, too. 
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Post by Prime etc. on Nov 28, 2019 21:01:17 GMT
James Bond was heading SJW right from the start.
By THUNDERBALL they were already beginning to deconstruct him (the woman assassin who isn't won over by him) and the Bond girl saving his life at the end.
Minor stuff but it showed they were thinking about it.
OHMSS ends on a total negative.
Then in the Moore era they made him more comical and the use of a male chorus in one of the scores has been suggested as a gay subtext.
After Moore, Bond was getting shorter and less macho. Dalton certainly wasn't and LICENSE TO KILL has a few bits where he is put in a subservient position like in the bar scene where it is suggested he was inadequately equipped for the violence.
The Onatop assassin could not have worked in the Connery era. Only a more effeminate Bond could be physically threatened by a model.
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Post by mslo79 on Nov 29, 2019 12:13:15 GMT
amyghostYou are aware she had vision issues etc in real life, correct? so basically she had to end the whole Bond stuff and I think she went out on a high note as Skyfall (2012) is my #1 Bond movie and within my Top 16 movies straight up.
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Post by louise on Nov 29, 2019 14:07:53 GMT
I didn’t like it, because M is a man in the books and I didn’t think they should have made him a woman in the films. I am not really very keen on characters being given sex changes.
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Post by louise on Nov 29, 2019 14:16:50 GMT
James Bond was heading SJW right from the start. By THUNDERBALL they were already beginning to deconstruct him (the woman assassin who isn't won over by him) and the Bond girl saving his life at the end. Minor stuff but it showed they were thinking about it. OHMSS ends on a total negative. Then in the Moore era they made him more comical and the use of a male chorus in one of the scores has been suggested as a gay subtext. After Moore, Bond was getting shorter and less macho. Dalton certainly wasn't and LICENSE TO KILL has a few bits where he is put in a subservient position like in the bar scene where it is suggested he was inadequately equipped for the violence. The Onatop assassin could not have worked in the Connery era. Only a more effeminate Bond could be physically threatened by a model. the Bond books quite often end in misfortune. In some of them, Moonraker for example, he doesn’t get the girl at the end. In From Russia With Love he is poisoned and nearly dies. He isn’t nearly such a superman as he is in the films. I have always wondered though why they kept the downbeat ending from Her Majesty’s Secret Service, because it doesn’t make much sense unless you have the looking for revenge story of You Only Live Twice which follows it. Seems very unlikely that Bond would just let it go.
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Post by Prime etc. on Nov 29, 2019 15:11:57 GMT
the Bond books quite often end in misfortune. In some of them, Moonraker for example, he doesn’t get the girl at the end. In From Russia With Love he is poisoned and nearly dies. He isn’t nearly such a superman as he is in the films. I have always wondered though why they kept the downbeat ending from Her Majesty’s Secret Service, because it doesn’t make much sense unless you have the looking for revenge story of You Only Live Twice which follows it. Seems very unlikely that Bond would just let it go. I heard that Ian Fleming said Bond wasn't a hero-he was a killing machine working for secret government agencies. I think while this may have been the intention, the basic image of a knight errant on adventures is timeless and the movies could not avoid presenting that idea even if not intended. It was trendy for late 60s movies to end on a downer. In the case of OYMSS I think the ending was appropriate given that it was a new Bond. ironically, by it being Lazenby's only film, it makes the ending more effective. Kind of Orpheus in the Underworld.
I suspect it would have come off badly if it was Connery or if Lazenby had returned for more.
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Caesium137
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Post by Caesium137 on Nov 29, 2019 15:24:27 GMT
The change was fine. I always saw her as a literal version of the Queen, whom Bond has sworn to protect at all cost. So if Bond himself is willing to take order from the Queen then he can take orders from a female M.
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biker1
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Post by biker1 on Nov 29, 2019 17:11:15 GMT
Woman isn't a problem..just Judi Dench's po-faced role playing. Yeah Yeah, whatever, Boss. Dismal.
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Post by vegalyra on Nov 29, 2019 18:15:58 GMT
It didn't really bother me, the lackluster plots outside of Goldeneye for the Brosnan series of Bond films is what turned me off.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Nov 29, 2019 18:40:28 GMT
She was one of the best aspects of the Brosnan's Bonds and Craigs, because it's Dame Judi Motherfuckin' Dench!
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Post by teleadm on Nov 29, 2019 19:24:06 GMT
 Bernard Lee 1908 - 1981
For Your Eyes Only was M-less, until...  Robert Brown 1921 - 2003
I didn't mind the switch to Judi Dench.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 22:19:18 GMT
Die-hard chauvinism. Imagine Bond being subservient to a female superior! But I liked Judy Dench; she was one of the few things that made the Brosnan Bonds even slightly tolerable, and she was a grace note in the Craig ones as well--I thought killing her off in Skyfall was a huge mistake.
Is EVERY case of a man in a role male chauvinism?
That can only be rectified by replacing him with a woman?
How narrow-minded of you.
I liked her in the role. I didn't love her. But I didn't love any of the previous M's. They were such small roles.
Brosnan as Bond and the smoking hot babes were the best parts of Goldeneye.
And the guy who played Q was hilarious. Sorry, I guess that be more of that male chauvinism. We need to have only females play all Bond parts.
No one was paying money to see M. Or Judi Dench.
Bond is the reason. If he becomes a she, you will finally like Bond.
But I would never watch it. I know. More male chauvinism.
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Post by Vits on Nov 29, 2019 23:32:07 GMT
From Wikipedia: "Judi Dench, an English actress, was cast as M replacing Robert Brown, making this the first film of the series featuring a female M. The decision is widely believed to have been inspired by Stella Rimington having become head of MI5 in 1992." I didn’t like it, because M is a man in the books and I didn’t think they should have made him a woman in the films. M isn't really a person; it's anyone who works as the Head of MI6. |
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Post by amyghost on Nov 30, 2019 13:57:42 GMT
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