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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 8, 2020 1:20:57 GMT
Zos - all countries produce goods that create pollution. In a geology class I took from the U of West Virginia, the professor made this comment: "Every person on the planet (some 7.2 billion) create 3 to 5 pounds of trash on a daily basis." And this includes small children. Humans are causing this dilemma. Of course they do, but if a particular country is responsible for a quarter of the worlds pollution then refuse to sign up to protocols to address the problem they need to be bought to book for it. Unfortunately our current administration in the U.S. is shite. That's why we have to vote him out in November and right the ship.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 8, 2020 1:37:49 GMT
We have had bad fires before. Global warming has nothing to do with this fire. That being said I would do anything I could to help over there. At least we agree on something.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 17:16:24 GMT
I had no idea "being open minded" means trudging through a wall of text and clicking on links I dont wanna click on. That's like saying, c'mon be happy while I hurl insults at you.
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Post by Sandman on Jan 8, 2020 17:24:21 GMT
Let me ask you a question: What good comes out of coal?
Cheapest source of energy. Stable source of energy. Coal provides many jobs. Coal is American made. We do not have to import this product into this country. The availability of coal makes it very affordable.
Now to address your other question:
Why cant those same workers just learn the new technology and switch over to the new jobs? That's what I don't get? Just switch over! Learn a new skill and do the other thing.
Just because those same workers learn a new technology does not mean they will get a job. Younger more qualified people will be after those same jobs. If someone who runs a company that they hope will be around for many decades who do you think they will hire? A 55 years old who has been mining coal all there lives or a much younger healthier person? The answer is easy.
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Post by faustus5 on Jan 8, 2020 19:58:15 GMT
Stable source of energy. Coal is American made. We do not have to import this product into this country. The same can be said for wind and solar, which don't pollute, ruin the lives of workers, or contribute to greenhouse gas emissions. Getting rid of the coal industry is a win-win proposition in just about every way, and it is the direction we are going no matter how many faux tears you cry as you pretend you actually give a shit about blue collar workers.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 8, 2020 20:23:36 GMT
I had no idea "being open minded" means trudging through a wall of text and clicking on links I dont wanna click on. That's like saying, c'mon be happy while I hurl insults at you. You're right. You have no idea. Because "c'mon be happy while I hurl insults at you" wasn't what I said at all. What I DID say was: "Here's some stuff for you to consider. And I hope you also do your own research, and not just from sources that already support your own opinion. I'm not forcing you to accept my opinion. I'm just putting the info out there and letting you decide." So I don't know how you got the other thing.
Clicking through those links might have taught you something you desperately need to know. But instead you...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 21:35:14 GMT
I had no idea "being open minded" means trudging through a wall of text and clicking on links I dont wanna click on. That's like saying, c'mon be happy while I hurl insults at you. You're right. You have no idea. Because "c'mon be happy while I hurl insults at you" wasn't what I said at all. What I DID say was: "Here's some stuff for you to consider. And I hope you also do your own research, and not just from sources that already support your own opinion. I'm not forcing you to accept my opinion. I'm just putting the info out there and letting you decide." So I don't know how you got the other thing.
Clicking through those links might have taught you something you desperately need to know. But instead you...
if someone told you the world was flat and proceeded to give you a long essay to read about it topped off with a nice suggestion at the end to feel free to research more about it, would you call that being open minded or idiotic?
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Post by faustus5 on Jan 8, 2020 22:27:46 GMT
if someone told you the world was flat and proceeded to give you a long essay to read about it topped off with a nice suggestion at the end to feel free to research more about it, would you call that being open minded or idiotic? If someone gives you information about something that the scientific community overwhelmingly finds to be true and you just refuse to believe it or give the information a chance, you are being both close minded and utterly idiotic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 22:42:06 GMT
if someone told you the world was flat and proceeded to give you a long essay to read about it topped off with a nice suggestion at the end to feel free to research more about it, would you call that being open minded or idiotic? If someone gives you information about something that the scientific community overwhelmingly finds to be true and you just refuse to believe it or give the information a chance, you are being both close minded and utterly idiotic. if someone were to tell you that a while ago, it was in fact widelynacceptwd that the world was flat, a theory that was well supported by lots of scientific facts at the time, would you believe that it call me an idiot?
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Post by kevin on Jan 8, 2020 22:46:38 GMT
if someone told you the world was flat and proceeded to give you a long essay to read about it topped off with a nice suggestion at the end to feel free to research more about it, would you call that being open minded or idiotic? It might be nicely written, but unless it has some incredible solid new proof that the main scientific community agrees with it's idiotic, definitely idiotic. People have known the world was round since the time of the Ancient Greeks and somehow some people currently think that it was only discovered a few hundred years ago. Science is all about discussion and not ignorantly sticking to the established theories when new discoveries are made, but the earth being round is one of the most universally accepted and consistently proven concepts in all of science. All theories that try to talk about the earth being flat are ridiculously overcomplex and take incredible liberties in basically changing all of science in weird ways just to make their flat earth idea possible. Like come on, ever heard of Occam's razor. Not believing climate change is one thing. I mean I think it's weird considering the overwhelming proof, but maybe people are just in the denial stage. But thinking the earth is flat is a whole other level. That's just plain stupid. I don't think I've ever met a single person who actually believes the earth is flat (so not counting people who are just saying it because it's a meme).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 22:52:19 GMT
if someone told you the world was flat and proceeded to give you a long essay to read about it topped off with a nice suggestion at the end to feel free to research more about it, would you call that being open minded or idiotic? It might be nicely written, but unless it has some incredible solid new proof that the main scientific community agrees with it's idiotic, definitely idiotic. People have known the world was round since the time of the Ancient Greeks and somehow some people currently think that it was only discovered a few hundred years ago. Science is all about discussion, but the earth being round is one of the most universally accepted and consistently proven concepts in all of science. All theories that try to talk about the earth being flat are ridiculously overcomplex and take incredible liberties in basically changing all of science in weird ways just to make their flat earth idea possible. Not believing climate change is one thing. I mean I think it's weird, but maybe people are just in the denial stage. But thinking the earth is flat is a whole other level. That's just plain stupid. I don't think I've ever met a single person who actually believes the earth is flat (so not counting people who are just saying it because it's a meme). bro I'm talk9ng about before it was discovered round. Back then any established scientist would have Confirmed that the world was flat which was simply the case. It's enough to caat doubt on the accuracy of today's global warming alarmists, which are Or even publicly disputed by other scientists so there's even more doubt in this case
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Post by kevin on Jan 8, 2020 23:01:30 GMT
It might be nicely written, but unless it has some incredible solid new proof that the main scientific community agrees with it's idiotic, definitely idiotic. People have known the world was round since the time of the Ancient Greeks and somehow some people currently think that it was only discovered a few hundred years ago. Science is all about discussion, but the earth being round is one of the most universally accepted and consistently proven concepts in all of science. All theories that try to talk about the earth being flat are ridiculously overcomplex and take incredible liberties in basically changing all of science in weird ways just to make their flat earth idea possible. Not believing climate change is one thing. I mean I think it's weird, but maybe people are just in the denial stage. But thinking the earth is flat is a whole other level. That's just plain stupid. I don't think I've ever met a single person who actually believes the earth is flat (so not counting people who are just saying it because it's a meme). bro I'm talk9ng about before it was discovered round. Back then any established scientist would have Confirmed that the world was flat which was simply the case. It's enough to caat doubt on the accuracy of today's global warming alarmists, which are Or even publicly disputed by other scientists so there's even more doubt in this case But those two things are so different from each other. More than 3000 years ago there was no global scientific community and almost no good scientific tools to indeed show that the earth was round. So of course a lot people would've thought the earth was flat, that's what you see when you look around. But ever since there were even remotely okay tools, methods and logic concepts (f.e. ships disappearing behind the horizon), everyone jumped on the 'the earth is round' ship quite quickly. The current situation is dramatically different. There is a global scientific communities doing thousands on independent researches that are being fact checked by everyone else with incredible tools and high level climate theory. Of course there are still many uncertainties. How much will the earth really warm up? Is the process unstoppable after a while or is it still reversable even if we would still wait a while? How much will the sea levels actually go up? The feedback mechanisms of the earth are still too complex to model to that level of accuracy. But even when there are no definitive answers to those questions, measurements show an unprecedented increase in global temperature (especially in terms of the time span over which it occurs) directly linked to the human caused increase of CO2, NOx, Methane and other greenhouse gasses, whose properties of capturing heat are already proven and explained in molecular theory for many years on a small scale level, disrupting the delicate climate balance on earth.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 23:37:35 GMT
bro I'm talk9ng about before it was discovered round. Back then any established scientist would have Confirmed that the world was flat which was simply the case. It's enough to caat doubt on the accuracy of today's global warming alarmists, which are Or even publicly disputed by other scientists so there's even more doubt in this case But those two things are so different from each other. More than 3000 years ago there was no global scientific community and almost no good scientific tools to indeed show that the earth was round. So of course a lot people would've thought the earth was flat, that's what you see when you look around. But ever since there were even remotely okay tools, methods and logic concepts (f.e. ships disappearing behind the horizon), everyone jumped on the 'the earth is round' ship quite quickly. The current situation is dramatically different. There is a global scientific communities doing thousands on independent researches that are being fact checked by everyone else with incredible tools and high level climate theory. Of course there are still many uncertainties. How much will the earth really warm up? Is the process unstoppable after a while or is it still reversable even if we would still wait a while? How much will the sea levels actually go up? The feedback mechanisms of the earth are still too complex to model to that level of accuracy. But even when there are no definitive answers to those questions, measurements show an unprecedented increase in global temperature (especially in terms of the time span over which it occurs) directly linked to the human caused increase of CO2, NOx, Methane and other greenhouse gasses, whose properties of capturing heat are already proven and explained in molecular theory for many years on a small scale level, disrupting the delicate climate balance on earth. they had all sorts of tools for the time including sundials, protractor, methods of measurement, geometrical observation. They're obviously wrong now but back then, that was their science and that was the consensus. And the fact that certain predictions were made, none of which were true like New York being underwater by now, I'm sorry to say, but just lends less credence to what they say now.
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Post by faustus5 on Jan 9, 2020 10:57:45 GMT
if someone were to tell you that a while ago, it was in fact widelynacceptwd that the world was flat, a theory that was well supported by lots of scientific facts at the time, would you believe that it call me an idiot? A. There was never a time when it was "widely accepted" that the world was flat. This is a myth believed only by people who are profoundly ignorant of intellectual history.
B. When some portions of the world believed the world was flat, there was nothing that even came close to resembling modern science. The very concept of science as practiced today literally didn't exist until the early 19th century. Only in modern times do we have the systems of checks and balances that ensure our models are highly likely to be accurate.
C. So for you to dismiss the findings of modern science without giving informed scientific reasons to do so, indicates both profound fucking ignorance and an utterly closed mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 12:19:06 GMT
if someone were to tell you that a while ago, it was in fact widelynacceptwd that the world was flat, a theory that was well supported by lots of scientific facts at the time, would you believe that it call me an idiot? A. There was never a time when it was "widely accepted" that the world was flat. This is a myth believed only by people who are profoundly ignorant of intellectual history.
B. When some portions of the world believed the world was flat, there was nothing that even came close to resembling modern science. The very concept of science as practiced today literally didn't exist until the early 19th century. Only in modern times do we have the systems of checks and balances that ensure our models are highly likely to be accurate.
C. So for you to dismiss the findings of modern science without giving informed scientific reasons to do so, indicates both profound fucking ignorance and an utterly closed mind. and who's to say that scientists won't be wrong again today. perhaps thousands of years from now, they'll be looking back and laughing at how absurd we were about global warming.
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Post by faustus5 on Jan 9, 2020 12:26:22 GMT
and who's to say that scientists won't be wrong again today. perhaps thousands of years from now, they'll be looking back and laughing at how absurd we were about global warming. It is extraordinarily unlikely that they will be wrong about climate change and its consequence. Their predictions are already coming true. In modern times, when there is such widespread agreement over the evidence, the scientific community doesn't turn around and change its mind. That just doesn't happen. You know who we will be laughing at in just a few decade? Complete ignoramuses like you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 13:53:35 GMT
and who's to say that scientists won't be wrong again today. perhaps thousands of years from now, they'll be looking back and laughing at how absurd we were about global warming. It is extraordinarily unlikely that they will be wrong about climate change and its consequence. Their predictions are already coming true. In modern times, when there is such widespread agreement over the evidence, the scientific community doesn't turn around and change its mind. That just doesn't happen. You know who we will be laughing at in just a few decade? Complete ignoramuses like you. so you'll still remember me in a few decades?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 9, 2020 15:49:09 GMT
You're right. You have no idea. Because "c'mon be happy while I hurl insults at you" wasn't what I said at all. What I DID say was: "Here's some stuff for you to consider. And I hope you also do your own research, and not just from sources that already support your own opinion. I'm not forcing you to accept my opinion. I'm just putting the info out there and letting you decide." So I don't know how you got the other thing.
Clicking through those links might have taught you something you desperately need to know. But instead you...
if someone told you the world was flat and proceeded to give you a long essay to read about it topped off with a nice suggestion at the end to feel free to research more about it, would you call that being open minded or idiotic? A) If MOST of the world and practically EVERY scientific mind of the age told me the world was flat I would at least look at their scientific conclusions. It would at least give me a smidgen of doubt. That's what open minded means. That you at least consider the other side. Idiotic is when you are certain you are right but you wont look at any facts to back it up OR discount it (i.e. what you're doing).
B) That's an awful analogy since we already KNOW the world is not flat (you do know that, right?). With climate change we're still trying to convince those who have politics on the brain instead of factual information (i.e. what you're doing).
Continue enjoying the sand... (i.e. what you're doing).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 15:53:44 GMT
if someone told you the world was flat and proceeded to give you a long essay to read about it topped off with a nice suggestion at the end to feel free to research more about it, would you call that being open minded or idiotic? A) If MOST of the world and practically EVERY scientific mind of the age told me the world was flat I would at least look at their scientific conclusions. It would at least give me a smidgen of doubt. That's what open minded means. That you at least consider the other side. Idiotic is when you are certain you are right but you wont look at any facts to back it up OR discount it (i.e. what you're doing).
B) That's an awful analogy since we already KNOW the world is not flat (you do know that, right?). With climate change we're still trying to convince those who have politics on the brain instead of factual information (i.e. what you're doing).
Continue enjoying the sand... (i.e. what you're doing).
new York is not underwater. Hows that for a fact?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 9, 2020 16:28:34 GMT
A) If MOST of the world and practically EVERY scientific mind of the age told me the world was flat I would at least look at their scientific conclusions. It would at least give me a smidgen of doubt. That's what open minded means. That you at least consider the other side. Idiotic is when you are certain you are right but you wont look at any facts to back it up OR discount it (i.e. what you're doing).
B) That's an awful analogy since we already KNOW the world is not flat (you do know that, right?). With climate change we're still trying to convince those who have politics on the brain instead of factual information (i.e. what you're doing).
Continue enjoying the sand... (i.e. what you're doing).
new York is not underwater. Hows that for a fact? Much of Miami IS. How's that for a fact?
And how about all of these? Re-quote from my own first post which you ignored: "...All the pollution in just your town alone- car exhaust, smoke stacks, chemical dumping on land and in water, factories, cigarette butts, plastics, land fills. Then multiply that by how much more of it there is all around the world. Then remember, that stuff doesn't just dissipate, it doesn't just "go away". It contaminates. It sticks around in one form or another. Don't think its not there just because you don't see it. It's still there."
You don't even need anyone elses opinion to see those. You can just go out and see those for yourself. Unless, what do you do? Just ignore those in your life? Out of sight, out of mind?
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