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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 12, 2020 21:10:17 GMT
Meat and other animal products are responsible for more than half of food-related greenhouse gas emissions, despite providing only a fifth of the calories we eat and drink. Agriculture is responsible for an estimated 14 percent of the world's greenhouse gases. A significant portion of these emissions come from methane, which, in terms of its contribution to global warming, is 23 times more powerful than carbon dioxide. The U.S. Food and Agriculture Organization says that agricultural methane output could increase by 60 percent by 2030 [Source: Times Online]. The world's 1.5 billion cows and billions of other grazing animals emit dozens of polluting gases, including lots of methane. Two-thirds of all ammonia comes from cows. Cows emit a massive amount of methane through belching, with a lesser amount through flatulence. Statistics vary regarding how much methane the average dairy cow expels. Some experts say 100 liters to 200 liters a day (or about 26 gallons to about 53 gallons), while others say it's up to 500 liters (about 132 gallons) a day. In any case, that's a lot of methane, an amount comparable to the pollution produced by a car in a day. I hope that helps. In some cases there is apparently no limit to how low someone can go. Also Arlon cannot meaningfully define 'science' or thereby a 'scientist', he has previously told us - so then how is he able to judge someone is not one? There is no realistic means to measure the temperature of the entire atmosphere of the "planet" to within 1.5 oC. If you believe there is then thank you for announcing you are not a scientist. It saves us much trouble. Statistical methods can be highly accurate on playing card, dice, and other highly artificial and limited scenarios. The planet is simply too large to expect meaningful results of such precision. Should a larger and measurable change in climate become apparent later, then I'll pay attention. I hope that helps. Your reply is familiar but strictly irrelevant to my point as to the carbon footprint of the meat industry. Once again: if you cannot meaningfully define a scientist, as you insist, then it is hard to see how you are able to pass judgement on whether others are or not - let alone the abilities of science to accurately report on the rate and level of global warming. But thank you anyway. In the meantime others may contemplate (for instance) the record breaking conditions in Australia leading to the current natural catastrophe there as well as the continuing loss of ice sheets and glaciers. What happens to sea levels when vast amounts of newly-released water leaks into the oceans, Arlon? For anyone who is not a climate change denier, some more extended consideration can be found here. climate.nasa.gov/news/2876/new-studies-increase-confidence-in-nasas-measure-of-earths-temperature/ or here "Conclusions: The well-known and widely-cited reconstructions of global temperature, produced by NASA GISS, UEA CRU, and NOAA NCDC, are replicable. Independent studies using different software, different methods, and different data sets yield very similar results. The increase in temperatures since 1975 is a consistent feature of all reconstructions, and is also a feature found in reconstructions from natural temperature proxy measurements. This increase cannot be explained as an artifact of the adjustment process, the decrease in station numbers, or other non-climatological factors. " skepticalscience.com/surface-temperature-measurements-advanced.htm Arlon will not be providing any substantiation for his contrary opinions, as usual!
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Post by koskiewicz on Jan 12, 2020 21:17:27 GMT
So then, every time I mow my lawn, I am a mass murderer?
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Post by maya55555 on Jan 13, 2020 3:50:16 GMT
More like a mohel.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 13, 2020 10:14:24 GMT
FilmFlaneur said: [ full text here] [Filmflaneur actually didn't say much, but merely linked articles he considers scientific. Click "full text here' to find those links.] Perhaps you will agree with me, Filmy, that people who are not really scientific can make an awful nuisance of themselves. Can I get a "Whoop! Whoop!"? The question then is what can be done about such people? Have you any plans? I have some ideas that might surprise you, but you go first if you want.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 13, 2020 10:28:05 GMT
So then, every time I mow my lawn, I am a mass murderer? Only if it kills the lawn, but then there's stepping on bugs or fighting germs.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 13, 2020 10:34:49 GMT
"What then might be the reason for eating only plants?" Scarcity and cost of meat. Many people in third world nations eat almost nothing but rice and beans, meat is too expensive and takes much more land/resources to produce than plant based food. If the world population keeps increasing, that is most likely what is going to happen to meat in general (too many people demanding it, not enough land/resources to meet the demand, much cheaper to produce plant based food) I am not sure that is very scientific, but I am sure there is more than science to it. There is the rule in economics that it doesn't matter what you can produce if you can't sell it.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 13, 2020 10:49:24 GMT
Somewhat famous research of plant life was conducted with the crescograph invented by Jagadash Chandra Bose. The Wikipedia article doesn't have much detail. The crescograph was an array of strategies to measure microscopic movements, not all of which are discussed.
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senan90
Junior Member
@senan90
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 546
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Post by senan90 on Jan 13, 2020 15:32:34 GMT
It’s you who makes provocative statements, and gets irate when someone calls you out on it. People have no problem eating meat and dairy products et el. Why? Because it’s healthier than veganism. That’s a fact. People have lots of problems eating meat, dairy, and chickens' periods... Cancer, heart disease, cognitive dissonance, etc. Are you a baby cow? No... Then you clearly don't need their mothers' milk... You are a human, and you were weaned off your mother's breast milk because you didn't need it anymore. You have no need to steal the milk of another species babies... Except that you haven't overcome a bizarre maternal attachment. You are clearly a selfish individual, devoid of compassion. Which is your loss. Nonsense. Studies and scientific published research have found no link in harmful side effects eating dairy. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703621/"Dairy products do not increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, particularly if low fat. Intake of up to three servings of dairy products per day appears to be safe and may confer a favourable benefit with regard to bone health." www.health.harvard.edu/blog/dairy-health-food-or-health-risk-2019012515849"The American Heart Association still recommends adults stick to fat-free or low-fat dairy products. But new research suggests full-fat dairy might not be much of a threat to heart health. A report presented at the 2018 Congress of the European Society of Cardiology looked at 20 studies involving almost 25,000 people, and found no association between the consumption of most dairy products and cardiovascular disease." It's also pathetic and cowardly Jack/Sean/Ned that you attack me for being selfish and immoral when you're the guy who goads other posters about the atrocities perpetuated by terror organisations you support.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 13, 2020 20:15:47 GMT
So then, every time I mow my lawn, I am a mass murderer? That lovely smell of a fresh cut lawn is the grass' warning system to other plants that it is getting attacked. Enjoy your garden NOW you monster.
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Post by goz on Jan 13, 2020 20:24:20 GMT
Back up a step. How is anybody manufacturing meat products keeping humans alive? They are making a profit, and wasting the nutritional value of crops. Not all people have the same dietary needs. Simply because you can survive without meat (?) does not mean all other people can maintain good health without meat (See OP). There are many people placed on diets that include meat by medical professionals. Maybe they do not need to include meat, but I would not interfere. You would? THIS is rich, coming from you! YOU are the one who dismissed medical science on a regular basis except when it suits your particular screwball argument! I seem to remember that you don't believe doctors have performed transplant surgery, a leery of hospitals and doctors in general and now you want them to prescribe meat because you think meat is a good thing and 'plants have feeling'? PLEASE!
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 13, 2020 20:33:06 GMT
Perhaps you will agree with me, Filmy, that people who are not really scientific can make an awful nuisance of themselves. Can I get a "Whoop! Whoop!"? It is more that those who insisted that they cannot meaningfully define science make logical fools of themselves when they then go on and talk dismissively of those they identify, in true Scotsman-style as 'not really scientists'. Nothing surprises me with you Arlon. As predicted last time Arlon has not be provided any substantiation for his contrary opinions. QED.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 13, 2020 20:36:00 GMT
So then, every time I mow my lawn, I am a mass murderer? That lovely smell of a fresh cut lawn is the grass' warning system to other plants that it is getting attacked. Enjoy your garden NOW you monster. I seem to remember how Caligula was given orgasms by the smell of just-cut grass...
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Post by gadreel on Jan 13, 2020 20:41:31 GMT
That lovely smell of a fresh cut lawn is the grass' warning system to other plants that it is getting attacked. Enjoy your garden NOW you monster. I seem to remember how Caligula was given orgasms by the smell of just-cut grass... When you say remember, can I assume that you are over 5000 years old?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 13, 2020 20:43:42 GMT
I seem to remember how Caligula was given orgasms by the smell of just-cut grass... When you say remember, can I assume that you are over 5000 years old? It is a but a blink of an eye for us, mortal.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 13, 2020 20:44:29 GMT
When you say remember, can I assume that you are over 5000 years old? It is a but a blink of an eye for us, mortal. Tis but a scratch!
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 13, 2020 23:19:51 GMT
Not all people have the same dietary needs. Simply because you can survive without meat (?) does not mean all other people can maintain good health without meat (See OP). There are many people placed on diets that include meat by medical professionals. Maybe they do not need to include meat, but I would not interfere. You would? THIS is rich, coming from you! YOU are the one who dismissed medical science on a regular basis except when it suits your particular screwball argument! I seem to remember that you don't believe doctors have performed transplant surgery, a leery of hospitals and doctors in general and now you want them to prescribe meat because you think meat is a good thing and 'plants have feeling'? PLEASE! I do not recall saying or even implying that medical professionals know absolutely nothing. I'm certain they do know some things like how many weeks are in a year. I suppose they can tie their shoes, ice skate, make a Spanish Omelette, and all sorts of things. They might know more about diet than lumberjacks, although that one might be questionable. Not all of them can do heart transplants. The doctor in my family works at a hospital that does not do heart transplants. I can see now why you depend on others for your opinions. You're lousy at developing your own.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 14, 2020 0:20:18 GMT
Perhaps you will agree with me, Filmy, that people who are not really scientific can make an awful nuisance of themselves. Can I get a "Whoop! Whoop!"? It is more that those who insisted that they cannot meaningfully define science make logical fools of themselves when they then go on and talk dismissively of those they identify, in true Scotsman-style as 'not really scientists'. Nothing surprises me with you Arlon. As predicted last time Arlon has not be provided any substantiation for his contrary opinions. QED. I remember saying something about how statistical analysis cannot obtain the required precision with such a vast data set as the entire atmosphere of the planet. Did you intend to address that claim? This year?
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Post by goz on Jan 14, 2020 4:02:47 GMT
THIS is rich, coming from you! YOU are the one who dismissed medical science on a regular basis except when it suits your particular screwball argument! I seem to remember that you don't believe doctors have performed transplant surgery, a leery of hospitals and doctors in general and now you want them to prescribe meat because you think meat is a good thing and 'plants have feeling'? PLEASE! I do not recall saying or even implying that medical professionals know absolutely nothing. I'm certain they do know some things like how many weeks are in a year. I suppose they can tie their shoes, ice skate, make a Spanish Omelette, and all sorts of things. They might know more about diet than lumberjacks, although that one might be questionable. Not all of them can do heart transplants. The doctor in my family works at a hospital that does not do heart transplants. I can see now why you depend on others for your opinions. You're lousy at developing your own. They know about medical science and some of them are trained to do heart transplants. Could you be any more stupid? You know zip on those subjects. I know a little more, however they are the experts, perform them and save hundreds of thousands of lives around the world with heart surgery and transplantations of all kinds.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 14, 2020 10:36:05 GMT
I do not recall saying or even implying that medical professionals know absolutely nothing. I'm certain they do know some things like how many weeks are in a year. I suppose they can tie their shoes, ice skate, make a Spanish Omelette, and all sorts of things. They might know more about diet than lumberjacks, although that one might be questionable. Not all of them can do heart transplants. The doctor in my family works at a hospital that does not do heart transplants. I can see now why you depend on others for your opinions. You're lousy at developing your own. They know about medical science and some of them are trained to do heart transplants. Could you be any more stupid? You know zip on those subjects. I know a little more, however they are the experts, perform them and save hundreds of thousands of lives around the world with heart surgery and transplantations of all kinds. I'm more skeptical than you are. That's all. As skeptical as you are of people of religion I am as skeptical of everyone including people of religion. I'm not crazy. I'm not stupid. I am now and always have been exceptionally more intelligent than average as measured everywhere except the internet. The problem with trusting the internet is that it is a democracy, science is not. To explain to yourself why you are not getting the same answers I get, you assume that you must understand the science better than I do. In fact you have more faith in science than I do. I am readily persuaded by logical analysis of sufficient data. I know what "proof" is. I do not fault you for your faith. I understand what an efficient thing faith can be. I understand that some proofs have a rather large cost. I understand that some proofs are beyond the reach of current measurement techniques. I have not seen proof of a heart transplant. That does not mean, and I never claimed it means, there are no heart transplants. It does not mean I faith lost all faith in the medical profession. Yes, even I have some faith in the medical profession as skeptical as I am. As I said, faith can be efficient. The recent tragedy is that people of faith, and that very much includes you although your faith is in science, have followed the wrong leaders. I'm certain you are clever enough to see that one day. Meanwhile, you and many others with far too much faith in science are driving the internet into a disrepute that could take a long time to repair even after the problem is recognized by your amateur scientists.
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Post by general313 on Jan 14, 2020 16:05:30 GMT
They know about medical science and some of them are trained to do heart transplants. Could you be any more stupid? You know zip on those subjects. I know a little more, however they are the experts, perform them and save hundreds of thousands of lives around the world with heart surgery and transplantations of all kinds. I am now and always have been exceptionally more intelligent than average as measured everywhere except the internet. Damn you, now I have to wash my coffee-stained shirt.
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