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Post by Nora on Feb 20, 2020 4:46:43 GMT
Bully him, he'll leave on his own. A) i am not and will not intentionally be a bully to anyone B) we are talking about a successful, rich, educated well respected and strong personality having guy in his 50ties, in a leadership position. So... not a victim type person. I don’t doubt he would retaliate heavily and perhaps also successfully, if he felt “bullied”.
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Harmless elf
Junior Member
I'm a slick shyster the pest Meister
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Post by Harmless elf on Feb 20, 2020 4:51:55 GMT
Bully him, he'll leave on his own. A) i am not and will not intentionally be a bully to anyone B) we are talking about a successful, rich, educated well respected and strong personality having guy in his 50ties, in a leadership position. So... not a victim type person. I don’t doubt he would retaliate heavily and perhaps also successfully, if he felt “bullied”. Come on this is business, you have to step on a few tails to get ahead.
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Post by Nora on Feb 20, 2020 13:48:54 GMT
A) i am not and will not intentionally be a bully to anyone B) we are talking about a successful, rich, educated well respected and strong personality having guy in his 50ties, in a leadership position. So... not a victim type person. I don’t doubt he would retaliate heavily and perhaps also successfully, if he felt “bullied”. Come on this is business, you have to step on a few tails to get ahead. not in my experience. I made it to C-Suite without being a bully or stepping on anyone...
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Post by Nora on Feb 20, 2020 13:51:17 GMT
Bully him, he'll leave on his own. Bully him! You big ol' bully you. But that's not very professional. Just tell your superior he makes your job difficult. my superior is a weak yesman who is fairly new to the company too and afraid to make waves. so that went nowhere, I told him several times.
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Harmless elf
Junior Member
I'm a slick shyster the pest Meister
@amiable
Posts: 2,924
Likes: 1,170
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Post by Harmless elf on Feb 20, 2020 14:00:51 GMT
Come on this is business, you have to step on a few tails to get ahead. not in my experience. I made it to C-Suite without being a bully or stepping on anyone... yeah but how many YouTube subscribers do you have? that's what really matters in today's world.
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Post by sadsaak on Feb 20, 2020 14:06:22 GMT
imagine you get hired to do something you are highly skilled at and its a rare and somewhat hard to understand skill so to those that observe it its fairly difficult to tell if you are good at it on level 1 or level 10. so you are on like 8-9 and you come to this company and see that someone who is the most senior in rank in a team of people who are supposed to be the EXPERTS in this is himself a 2 or 3 max. its not your boss or your report its your peer in a differnt team but you do need to cooperate to get things done. now the catch - he is a smart person who also is a fairly good guy (has a cat and brings her on calls and you like that a lot). I am not saying he should be fired but he should not lead that team or represent the company on this expertize until he catches up - which may be years. or at least months and giving if he is even willing to work hard at it. but his lack of expertise makes your job incredible difficult and exposes the company to a risk as a result too. whats next? his boss (who himself is 0-1) , which is ok i guess for someone this senior) thinks this guy is good at what he was hired to do, and the company is pretty conservative about observing ranks and so on. whats the best solution to this unfortunate situation? I would leave and set up on my own
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Post by Nora on Feb 20, 2020 14:40:34 GMT
imagine you get hired to do something you are highly skilled at and its a rare and somewhat hard to understand skill so to those that observe it its fairly difficult to tell if you are good at it on level 1 or level 10. so you are on like 8-9 and you come to this company and see that someone who is the most senior in rank in a team of people who are supposed to be the EXPERTS in this is himself a 2 or 3 max. its not your boss or your report its your peer in a differnt team but you do need to cooperate to get things done. now the catch - he is a smart person who also is a fairly good guy (has a cat and brings her on calls and you like that a lot). I am not saying he should be fired but he should not lead that team or represent the company on this expertize until he catches up - which may be years. or at least months and giving if he is even willing to work hard at it. but his lack of expertise makes your job incredible difficult and exposes the company to a risk as a result too. whats next? his boss (who himself is 0-1) , which is ok i guess for someone this senior) thinks this guy is good at what he was hired to do, and the company is pretty conservative about observing ranks and so on. whats the best solution to this unfortunate situation? I would leave and set up on my own yeah that is my current plan...
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 20, 2020 18:40:26 GMT
imagine you get hired to do something you are highly skilled at and its a rare and somewhat hard to understand skill so to those that observe it its fairly difficult to tell if you are good at it on level 1 or level 10. so you are on like 8-9 and you come to this company and see that someone who is the most senior in rank in a team of people who are supposed to be the EXPERTS in this is himself a 2 or 3 max. its not your boss or your report its your peer in a differnt team but you do need to cooperate to get things done. now the catch - he is a smart person who also is a fairly good guy (has a cat and brings her on calls and you like that a lot). I am not saying he should be fired but he should not lead that team or represent the company on this expertize until he catches up - which may be years. or at least months and giving if he is even willing to work hard at it. but his lack of expertise makes your job incredible difficult and exposes the company to a risk as a result too. whats next? his boss (who himself is 0-1) , which is ok i guess for someone this senior) thinks this guy is good at what he was hired to do, and the company is pretty conservative about observing ranks and so on. whats the best solution to this unfortunate situation? DO YOUR JOB. That's all. All the rest is not your concern. His job makes your job harder? Then just do the best that you can. Here are some other options...
A) Start looking for another job where you can be surrounded by other 8-9's.
B) Re-assess whether or not you're really an 8-9, and everyone else is so much lower.
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Post by Nora on Feb 20, 2020 18:46:13 GMT
imagine you get hired to do something you are highly skilled at and its a rare and somewhat hard to understand skill so to those that observe it its fairly difficult to tell if you are good at it on level 1 or level 10. so you are on like 8-9 and you come to this company and see that someone who is the most senior in rank in a team of people who are supposed to be the EXPERTS in this is himself a 2 or 3 max. its not your boss or your report its your peer in a differnt team but you do need to cooperate to get things done. now the catch - he is a smart person who also is a fairly good guy (has a cat and brings her on calls and you like that a lot). I am not saying he should be fired but he should not lead that team or represent the company on this expertize until he catches up - which may be years. or at least months and giving if he is even willing to work hard at it. but his lack of expertise makes your job incredible difficult and exposes the company to a risk as a result too. whats next? his boss (who himself is 0-1) , which is ok i guess for someone this senior) thinks this guy is good at what he was hired to do, and the company is pretty conservative about observing ranks and so on. whats the best solution to this unfortunate situation? DO YOUR JOB. That's all. All the rest is not your concern. His job makes your job harder? Then just do the best that you can. Here are some other options...
A) Start looking for another job where you can be surrounded by other 8-9's.
B) Re-assess whether or not you're really an 8-9, and everyone else is so much lower.
A) My job ties directly to his job so it does have a big impact on me and the team I lead. So I need to do “something” (before I leave), at least to set up my team for the best results they can achieve. B) hehe, I am more of a 9-10 in this particular area of expertise, I was lowballing with 8-9 however it’s not that Everyone else is much lower it’s just this guy and coincidently his boss but to be fair to them it’s not a requirement for them to be experts in this (it would be a nice to have but it’s not a hard wired requirement). I think HR failed them when recruiting. They probably didn’t have an expert interview this guy so they couldn’t have evaluate his skills in this area...
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Post by mecano04 on Feb 21, 2020 17:26:04 GMT
So you've been hired by a circus because you can lick your elbow but you do it so much better than the others that you feel it could create some tension within the team?
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Post by mecano04 on Feb 21, 2020 18:10:41 GMT
Jokes aside, I see two questions that still need to be answered.
1. What's your relation with your less proficient team and the head of that team?
Assuming that you may have suggested a few things in the past, how did it go? Was the response friendly or were you told to stay in your corner? If the response was positive maybe you could try "mentoring" others by suggesting things here and there, not completely change everything at once because then you could be perceived has a "know it all" or a "threat" to your less skilled coworkers. If the response is still positive, then over time it could increase your "value", which leads to the second question.
If the guy doesn't technically fall under the same administration as you, maybe you could talk to your boss, suggesting things that would make it easier for everyone and have your boss talk to the other guy's boss and have the info pass down that way.
2. Are you willing/able to play the long game?
It's self-explanatory but if you'd like to stay there for a while and the atmosphere is positive then you could try to go for the long term gain. Otherwise, finding another job might be among your top priorities.
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Post by MooseNugget on Feb 22, 2020 3:23:46 GMT
If he really is making your job that much harder you need to talk to him and tell him he needs to step up his game. It's not your job to carry the slack.
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Post by Nora on Feb 22, 2020 4:09:57 GMT
Jokes aside, I see two questions that still need to be answered. 1. What's your relation with your less proficient team and the head of that team? Assuming that you may have suggested a few things in the past, how did it go? Was the response friendly or were you told to stay in your corner? If the response was positive maybe you could try "mentoring" others by suggesting things here and there, not completely change everything at once because then you could be perceived has a "know it all" or a "threat" to your less skilled coworkers. If the response is still positive, then over time it could increase your "value", which leads to the second question. If the guy doesn't technically fall under the same administration as you, maybe you could talk to your boss, suggesting things that would make it easier for everyone and have your boss talk to the other guy's boss and have the info pass down that way. 2. Are you willing/able to play the long game? It's self-explanatory but if you'd like to stay there for a while and the atmosphere is positive then you could try to go for the long term gain. Otherwise, finding another job might be among your top priorities. 1. his team needs to sign off on my teams work. Imagine that, where the team lead by the non expert has to sign off on the work of your expert team. I did already talk to my boss but he is a coward and suggested I talk to this guys boss about it. He is not gonna do shit himself. 2. able yes, probably, wiling no. I made my decision already (to leave, quitting in 2 weeks) just wondering how to improve it for the person after me. I talked to the guy who I will suggest that takes over after me (also an expert) and told him he will have a unique chance to "ask for things" and make sure that one of the things he asks for is that his team is no longer dependent on this guys leadership/decision. I will also share this with HR before I leave.
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Post by Nora on Feb 22, 2020 4:13:41 GMT
If he really is making your job that much harder you need to talk to him and tell him he needs to step up his game. It's not your job to carry the slack. I am not really carrying his slack, he is just preventing me and my team from delivering the best results we can. And while I know what you mean by needing to talk to him, its easier said than done, when the person is older than you, higher up in current rank than you, for sure paid more than you, in the company longer than you, and appreciated by their boss, and has probably not heard anyone critique his work for some time. I mean we have been in conflict of opinions before, he already knows I dont agree with him or value his contributions too much, but his response was indicative of him not realize how much further on the scale he is than he should be (to be in this position). Coincidently enough yesterday I found out one of the people reporting up to him also sees this and wants to take him down, and we have a meeting next week so Ill see what happens there...
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Post by Nora on Feb 22, 2020 4:44:20 GMT
If it is seriously impacting your own creative input and detrimental to the overall quality of outcome, he needs to be confronted. If your weak boss isn’t willing to address it, then you can mention your concerns face to face. If he has an issue with you, then let him go to his own boss and see if they have the guts to confront you. If you have thought about resigning yourself due to this issue, what have you got to lose Nora? oh it’s not just because of this issue there is several issues but this one is a big component of it yes. I guess I am not a fan of what I presume would be a very unpleasant conversation and probably not worth the stress on my side this would bring. But I’ll still consider talking to him about it before I leave. Maybe he will pleasantly surprise me. but I am leaving either way - I have other projects lined up and want to go chill out in Thailand for a few months before that
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Post by mecano04 on Feb 22, 2020 12:54:31 GMT
Jokes aside, I see two questions that still need to be answered. 1. What's your relation with your less proficient team and the head of that team? Assuming that you may have suggested a few things in the past, how did it go? Was the response friendly or were you told to stay in your corner? If the response was positive maybe you could try "mentoring" others by suggesting things here and there, not completely change everything at once because then you could be perceived has a "know it all" or a "threat" to your less skilled coworkers. If the response is still positive, then over time it could increase your "value", which leads to the second question. If the guy doesn't technically fall under the same administration as you, maybe you could talk to your boss, suggesting things that would make it easier for everyone and have your boss talk to the other guy's boss and have the info pass down that way. 2. Are you willing/able to play the long game? It's self-explanatory but if you'd like to stay there for a while and the atmosphere is positive then you could try to go for the long term gain. Otherwise, finding another job might be among your top priorities. 1. his team needs to sign off on my teams work. Imagine that, where the team lead by the non expert has to sign off on the work of your expert team. I did already talk to my boss but he is a coward and suggested I talk to this guys boss about it. He is not gonna do shit himself. 2. able yes, probably, wiling no. I made my decision already (to leave, quitting in 2 weeks) just wondering how to improve it for the person after me. I talked to the guy who I will suggest that takes over after me (also an expert) and told him he will have a unique chance to "ask for things" and make sure that one of the things he asks for is that his team is no longer dependent on this guys leadership/decision. I will also share this with HR before I leave. Well, it wasn't as much that they didn't appreciate your potential as much as the fact that the extent of their knowledge and skills only allowed them to "see" half (or less) of what you actually brought.
It sucks that you weren't appreciated or rewarded for what you brought (and that you have to find a new job) but ultimately it's their loss.
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Post by Nora on Feb 22, 2020 16:34:23 GMT
1. his team needs to sign off on my teams work. Imagine that, where the team lead by the non expert has to sign off on the work of your expert team. I did already talk to my boss but he is a coward and suggested I talk to this guys boss about it. He is not gonna do shit himself. 2. able yes, probably, wiling no. I made my decision already (to leave, quitting in 2 weeks) just wondering how to improve it for the person after me. I talked to the guy who I will suggest that takes over after me (also an expert) and told him he will have a unique chance to "ask for things" and make sure that one of the things he asks for is that his team is no longer dependent on this guys leadership/decision. I will also share this with HR before I leave. Well, it wasn't as much that they didn't appreciate your potential as much as the fact that the extent of their knowledge and skills only allowed them to "see" half (or less) of what you actually brought.
It sucks that you weren't appreciated or rewarded for what you brought (and that you have to find a new job) but ultimately it's their loss. yeah. i should have known when the very expert person who hired me left the company shortly after
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Post by Nora on Mar 11, 2020 20:59:57 GMT
so I gave my notice today and shared my reasons for leaving without naming anyone.... hoping my juju will stay intact off to another adventure now and back to being the master of my time. yay!
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