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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 20, 2020 4:12:49 GMT
When it comes to directors who are known for making unnecessarily drab, dark and depressing movies, Zack Snyder has been the obvious example that people always cite and make jokes about, which is certainly not without merit. Still, another director who people rarely seem to bring up when it comes to making those kinds of films is J.J. Abrams.
Think about it, the Abrams Star Trek films and the Abrams Star Wars films are violent, full of constant tension and drama and can even come across as being downright cynical at times. This is something that didn’t really occur to me until The Rise of Skywalker, which, if you ask me, is probably the most depressing and unpleasant film in the franchise, apart maybe from Revenge of the Sith, and that film at least has the excuse of being a prequel. For a movie that was supposed to serve as the grand conclusion of the Skywalker Saga, TRoS is pretty bleak and surprisingly mean spirited. Even the ending doesn’t feel nearly as triumphant as the one in Return of the Jedi.
That’s just something that’s crossed my mind lately. I suppose it’s less obvious with his film than it is with Zack Snyder films, since his films do still try to have comedy in them, but that doesn’t change much of anything in the long run. Would anyone else agree?
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 20, 2020 4:21:58 GMT
No.
I get why someone might find some of his movies dark and depressing, but I don't. He isn't talented enough to pull off something that is actually dark and depressing. I would say that Rise of Skywalker is depressing in that it is a crap movie, but that isn't the same thing as what you are talking about.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 20, 2020 4:36:53 GMT
No. I get why someone might find them dark and depressing, but I don't. He isn't talented enough to pull off something that is actually dark and depressing. I would say that Rise of Skywalker is depressing in that it is a crap movie, but that isn't the same thing as what you are talking about. Oh, I’m not saying that his films genuinely make me sad. I’m saying that considering that Star Trek is supposed to depict an optimistic vision of a utopian future, while Star Wars is supposed to be fun adventure escapism, his movies are pretty bleak and cynical. |
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 20, 2020 4:54:41 GMT
No. I get why someone might find them dark and depressing, but I don't. He isn't talented enough to pull off something that is actually dark and depressing. I would say that Rise of Skywalker is depressing in that it is a crap movie, but that isn't the same thing as what you are talking about. Oh, I’m not saying that his films genuinely make me sad. I’m saying that considering that Star Trek is supposed to depict an optimistic vision of a utopian future, while Star Wars is supposed to be fun adventure escapism, his movies are pretty bleak and cynical. I don't find them particularly bleak or cynical. There are certainly aspects of them that are, but overall I don't see it. Rogue One is certainly bleak and I think that movie is very entertaining escapism. I am aware that he doesn't direct that movie, I am just using it as an example. |
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Post by politicidal on Jul 20, 2020 13:40:36 GMT
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Post by mslo79 on Jul 20, 2020 14:29:54 GMT
Nope. they are just forgettable with Mission Impossible III (2006) being the only exception as that's a quality movie unlike the rest of his movies.
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Post by Archelaus on Jul 20, 2020 15:13:29 GMT
Mission: Impossible III was kind of dark, but J. J. Abrams's movies tend to be fall into the category of escapist entertainment. They have dark moments, but his overall films are not at all depressing or cynical.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 20, 2020 15:47:56 GMT
Mission: Impossible III was kind of dark, but J. J. Abrams's movies tend to be fall into the category of escapist entertainment. They have dark moments, but his overall films are not at all depressing or cynical. TRoS doesn’t strike me as fun escapist entertainment. It’s easily the most dour film in the sequel trilogy. |
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Post by Archelaus on Jul 20, 2020 16:10:31 GMT
Mission: Impossible III was kind of dark, but J. J. Abrams's movies tend to be fall into the category of escapist entertainment. They have dark moments, but his overall films are not at all depressing or cynical. TRoS doesn’t strike me as fun escapist entertainment. It’s easily the most dour film in the sequel trilogy.I think that title belongs to The Last Jedi. It is personified through Luke Skywalker, the once wide-eyed optimistic hero, being a desolate hermit. He sees the Jedi as a problem, and not the solution for peace in the galaxy even going so far to compare his hubris to that of the Jedi Order in the prequel trilogy. There's a slimmer of hope at the end, but the movie is about failure. The Rise of Skywalker is the continuation of "passing the torch to the new generation" theme and Kylo Ren finds redemption regardless of his past deeds. Rey finds out her true identity, but she repudiates it by destroying her lineage and doesn't let define her. The ending was the simple "good defeats evil" trope as you could get. If you could care to evaluate your thoughts a little more, I'll be more than happy to read them. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 20, 2020 16:33:25 GMT
TRoS doesn’t strike me as fun escapist entertainment. It’s easily the most dour film in the sequel trilogy.I think that title belongs to The Last Jedi. It is personified through Luke Skywalker, the once wide-eyed optimistic hero, being a desolate hermit. He sees the Jedi as a problem, and not the solution for peace in the galaxy even going so far to compare his hubris to that of the Jedi Order in the prequel trilogy. There's a slimmer of hope at the end, but the movie is about failure. The Rise of Skywalker is the continuation of "passing the torch to the new generation" theme and Kylo Ren finds redemption regardless of his past deeds. Rey finds out her true identity, but she repudiates it by destroying her lineage and doesn't let define her. The ending was the simple "good defeats evil" trope as you could get. If you could care to evaluate your thoughts a little more, I'll be more than happy to read them. TRoS completely undoes the character’s actions in the OT. TFA already set the precedent for downplaying the victory at the end of RotJ, but TRoS effectively makes that entire trilogy pointless by revealing that Palpatine is still a threat to the universe, even after seemingly getting killed by Anakin. The movie also deals with a lot of death and destruction, and gives Rey what is clearly intended to be seen as a twisted and unsettling backstory. In addition, the film uses a lot of dark imagery, particularly regarding Exegol, and frequently has the characters at each other’s throats. The film also kills off the Skywalker bloodline, with Leia’s death being treated as a dramatic low point in the film that the characters (Chewbacca especially) grieve over. Furthermore, while the film does end with the bad guys being defeated, its ending is nowhere near as happy and triumphant as the one in RotJ. Its ending feels rather somber and bittersweet, with Rey burying Anakin’s lightsaber on the planet he and Luke despised, while being all alone. If anything, I’d argue that TLJ actually has a more uplifting ending. Sure, the good guys technically lose at the end, but the film doesn’t really paint their loss as an especially damaging thing, and the last shot of the movie is a Force-sensitive kid looking to the stars in hope. The clear implication at the end of TLJ is that things will inevitably get better, and that in the end, good will triumph over evil. |
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Post by Archelaus on Jul 20, 2020 18:04:15 GMT
TRoS completely undoes the character’s actions in the OT. TFA already set the precedent for downplaying the victory at the end of RotJ, but TRoS effectively makes that entire trilogy pointless by revealing that Palpatine is still a threat to the universe, even after seemingly getting killed by Anakin. The movie also deals with a lot of death and destruction, and gives Rey what is clearly intended to be seen as a twisted and unsettling backstory. In addition, the film uses a lot of dark imagery, particularly regarding Exegol, and frequently has the characters at each other’s throats. The film also kills off the Skywalker bloodline, with Leia’s death being treated as a dramatic low point in the film that the characters (Chewbacca especially) grieve over. I don't generally perceive retconning as being dark and depressing, although I was angered at the return of Palpatine. It did nullify Anakin's sacrifice and the goal of the Rebel Alliance. Had Lucasfilm properly build up to Palpatine's return, I would have accepted it a little more, but it came out of nowhere and felt forced. Palpatine's return was treated as a surprise to the characters, but they don't act angst or feel depressed over it. Yes, the imagery of Exegol is dark, but it doesn't represent what the movie is about thematically. I don't see a problem with Leia's death. It was intended to be sad and it helped Kylo Ren come into the light. Furthermore, while the film does end with the bad guys being defeated, its ending is nowhere near as happy and triumphant as the one in RotJ. Its ending feels rather somber and bittersweet, with Rey burying Anakin’s lightsaber on the planet he and Luke despised, while being all alone. If anything, I’d argue that TLJ actually has a more uplifting ending. Sure, the good guys technically lose at the end, but the film doesn’t really paint their loss as an especially damaging thing, and the last shot of the movie is a Force-sensitive kid looking to the stars in hope. The clear implication at the end of TLJ is that things will inevitably get better, and that in the end, good will triumph over evil. Rey was burying Luke's lightsaber to poetically mark the ending of his legacy. She displays her own lightsaber to form her new identity as a Jedi. She now calls herself "Rey Skywalker" having received approval from Luke and Leia's Force ghosts. The whole trilogy, as flawed as it is, was about Rey finding her identity and it ends on an optimistic note that she will carry on where Luke and Leia left off. I also completely agree with you that The Last Jedi ends with hope, and you could say Rise of Skywalker builds on that when the cavalry from across the galaxy arrives to fight in the final battle. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 20, 2020 18:23:08 GMT
They start out dark to the point of near despair but then hope and love prevail.
It's a Bad Robot blueprint.
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Post by hi224 on Jul 20, 2020 18:23:24 GMT
When it comes to directors who are known for making unnecessarily drab, dark and depressing movies, Zack Snyder has been the obvious example that people always cite and make jokes about, which is certainly not without merit. Still, another director who people rarely seem to bring up when it comes to making those kinds of films is J.J. Abrams. Think about it, the Abrams Star Trek films and the Abrams Star Wars films are violent, full of constant tension and drama and can even come across as being downright cynical at times. This is something that didn’t really occur to me until The Rise of Skywalker, which, if you ask me, is probably the most depressing and unpleasant film in the franchise, apart maybe from Revenge of the Sith, and that film at least has the excuse of being a prequel. For a movie that was supposed to serve as the grand conclusion of the Skywalker Saga, TRoS is pretty bleak and surprisingly mean spirited. Even the ending doesn’t feel nearly as triumphant as the one in Return of the Jedi.
That’s just something that’s crossed my mind lately. I suppose it’s less obvious with his film than it is with Zack Snyder films, since his films do still try to have comedy in them, but that doesn’t change much of anything in the long run. Would anyone else agree? nope escapist at the worst probably. |
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