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Post by sadsaak on Jul 23, 2020 21:15:40 GMT
Died on 23 July 1885.
I did not realise how young he was. He was only 43 at the end of the Civil War. And from all the fuss about the scandals during his presidency he actually served two terms.
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Post by hi224 on Jul 23, 2020 21:33:39 GMT
Died on 23 July 1885.
I did not realise how young he was. He was only 43 at the end of the Civil War. And from all the fuss about the scandals during his presidency he actually served two terms.
yep.
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Post by politicidal on Jul 23, 2020 23:29:38 GMT
Plus he vigorously prosecuted the first incarnation of the KKK while appointing African-Americans and Jewish-Americans to public offices. The Klan...bounced back after a bit. Indian policy, also a mixed bag.
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Post by sadsaak on Jul 24, 2020 10:25:02 GMT
Don't know how true this is but Selby Foote said so which at least makes it interesting, is that much of Grant's drinking was because he missed his wife. When she turned was around he immediately sobered up.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 24, 2020 11:07:20 GMT
Died on 23 July 1885.
I did not realise how young he was. He was only 43 at the end of the Civil War. And from all the fuss about the scandals during his presidency he actually served two terms.
And he died damn near broke. Fortunately, we don't let that happen to ex-presidents anymore. It is mostly accepted that Grant was a very effective general and a very ineffective president. It is also mostly accepted that the South had the better generals and the North held the advantages in every other area of warfare. Grant was one of a few exceptions to the rule. He proved time and time again that he could take land from the enemy and keep it. Of course, I won't be surprised if TheGoodMan19 comes along to tell me that I'm totally wrong, and that George Meade was a much more effective general than Ulysses S. Grant ever dreamed of being.
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Post by sadsaak on Jul 24, 2020 11:17:37 GMT
Don't know how true this is but Selby Foote said so which at least makes it interesting, is that much of Grant's drinking was because he missed his wife. When she turned was around he immediately sobered up.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jul 24, 2020 15:36:24 GMT
Died on 23 July 1885.
I did not realise how young he was. He was only 43 at the end of the Civil War. And from all the fuss about the scandals during his presidency he actually served two terms.
And he died damn near broke. Fortunately, we don't let that happen to ex-presidents anymore. It is mostly accepted that Grant was a very effective general and a very ineffective president. It is also mostly accepted that the South had the better generals and the North held the advantages in every other area of warfare. Grant was one of a few exceptions to the rule. He proved time and time again that he could take land from the enemy and keep it. Of course, I won't be surprised if TheGoodMan19 comes along to tell me that I'm totally wrong, and that George Meade was a much more effective general than Ulysses S. Grant ever dreamed of being. Grant was the original "big picture" guy. He was a great strategist. but a poor battlefield general. The Vicksburg Campaign was brilliant (the 'seven failures" before he crossed the River was just busy work). He was beaten at the Wilderness worse than Joe Hooker (Grant had both flanks shattered, Hooker had only one). The difference, Hooker stuck his tail between his legs are slunk back across the river, Grant moved south and tore into the Rebels again. And again. And again. Robert E. Lee was the opposite of Grant. Brilliant battlefield general with no conception of strategy. He continuously reacted to Federal moves. Moves made, up until July of 1863, by generals who had no business commanding a platoon. In the final comparison between Grant and Lee comes the bottom line, who won?
As far as Meade, he had three good days. And his subordinates had three good days. A lot of the Army of the Potomac's woes came not just from the commanders but the corps and division commanders. Otis Howard's dangling flank at Chancellorsville, Burnside's bridge fixation at Antietam. The corps commanders, Hancock, Slocum, et al, had good days at Gettysburg. Had Meade been kept in independent command, he would have slunk back acroess the river after the Wilderness. And we would have talked about the CW in 1866, 1867
don't put words in my mouth again, btw
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 24, 2020 17:16:02 GMT
And he died damn near broke. Fortunately, we don't let that happen to ex-presidents anymore. It is mostly accepted that Grant was a very effective general and a very ineffective president. It is also mostly accepted that the South had the better generals and the North held the advantages in every other area of warfare. Grant was one of a few exceptions to the rule. He proved time and time again that he could take land from the enemy and keep it. Of course, I won't be surprised if TheGoodMan19 comes along to tell me that I'm totally wrong, and that George Meade was a much more effective general than Ulysses S. Grant ever dreamed of being. Grant was the original "big picture" guy. He was a great strategist. but a poor battlefield general. The Vicksburg Campaign was brilliant (the 'seven failures" before he crossed the River was just busy work). He was beaten at the Wilderness worse than Joe Hooker (Grant had both flanks shattered, Hooker had only one). The difference, Hooker stuck his tail between his legs are slunk back across the river, Grant moved south and tore into the Rebels again. And again. And again. Robert E. Lee was the opposite of Grant. Brilliant battlefield general with no conception of strategy. He continuously reacted to Federal moves. Moves made, up until July of 1863, by generals who had no business commanding a platoon. In the final comparison between Grant and Lee comes the bottom line, who won?
As far as Meade, he had three good days. And his subordinates had three good days. A lot of the Army of the Potomac's woes came not just from the commanders but the corps and division commanders. Otis Howard's dangling flank at Chancellorsville, Burnside's bridge fixation at Antietam. The corps commanders, Hancock, Slocum, et al, had good days at Gettysburg. Had Meade been kept in independent command, he would have slunk back acroess the river after the Wilderness. And we would have talked about the CW in 1866, 1867
don't put words in my mouth again, btw
Where's your sense of humor, old man?
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Post by bravomailer on Jul 24, 2020 17:21:11 GMT
Civil War historian James M McPherson claims there is no evidence Grant drank heavily during the war. It was newspaper gossip.
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Post by maya55555 on Aug 30, 2020 5:44:49 GMT
Plus he vigorously prosecuted the first incarnation of the KKK while appointing African-Americans and Jewish-Americans to public offices. The Klan...bounced back after a bit. Indian policy, also a mixed bag. However, he hated Roman Catholics with a vengeance.
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Post by politicidal on Aug 30, 2020 12:57:15 GMT
Plus he vigorously prosecuted the first incarnation of the KKK while appointing African-Americans and Jewish-Americans to public offices. The Klan...bounced back after a bit. Indian policy, also a mixed bag. However, he hated Roman Catholics with a vengeance.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 30, 2020 17:15:13 GMT
There's the standard story about Grant having a "breakdown" after The Battle of the Wilderness. Shelby Foote tells the tale in Ken Burns documentary. Grant had been beaten as bad as Hooker. When the battle was over, nearly every account says Grant wnet into his tent and had a nervous breakdown, I assume he blubbered like a little baby. All accounts except Bruce Catton's Grant Takes Command. In a footnote, Catton says that the story only exists in James Wilson's memoirs. Wilson, a former Grant aide, was leading a cavalry division and was nowhere near HQ. The men who were at HQ, Horace Porter, Cyrus Comstock and Theodore Lyman, never mentioned it. And Lyman would have, he was Meade's aide and had no love for Grant. Wilson was probably just relating a rumor. Grant wasn't the type to have a breakdown anyway. The man who, after day one of Shiloh, when he nearly lost his army, merely said "Whup them tomorrow"
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Post by nutsberryfarm π on Aug 31, 2020 21:17:36 GMT
a pyromaniac.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 31, 2020 21:26:40 GMT
Huh? Only thing Grant lit was his cigars
You thinking of Sherman, my friend?
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Post by nutsberryfarm π on Aug 31, 2020 21:27:46 GMT
Huh? Only thing Grant lit was his cigars
You thinking of Sherman, my friend?
oh..right. oops.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 31, 2020 22:01:20 GMT
Huh? Only thing Grant lit was his cigars
You thinking of Sherman, my friend?
oh..right. oops. Sherman was a good man with a quote
"If forced to choose between the penitentiary and the White House for four years, I would say the penitentiary, thank you." "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast." "Fear is the beginning of wisdom" War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over"
"There's many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory but it is all hell." (he never said "War is hell")
Someone said that Sherman, who could never sit or stand still for a second, was "like a little engine with all the screws loose". First man to have a screw loose. At the battle of Atlanta, Sherman's HQ came under fire briefly and he and his escorts had to hide behind trees. A young soldier was whimpering every time a bullet hit his tree, So Sherman started throwing pebbles at the tree to mess with the kid more.
He was 100% right on the cruelty of war. The south fought on and on until the North took the gloves off. What was more cruel, the Georgia and South Carolina marches or two more years of Gettysburg's and Chickamauga's?
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Post by nutsberryfarm π on Aug 31, 2020 22:56:32 GMT
oh..right. oops. Sherman was a good man with a quote
"If forced to choose between the penitentiary and the White House for four years, I would say the penitentiary, thank you." "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast." "Fear is the beginning of wisdom" War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over"
"There's many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory but it is all hell." (he never said "War is hell")
Someone said that Sherman, who could never sit or stand still for a second, was "like a little engine with all the screws loose". First man to have a screw loose. At the battle of Atlanta, Sherman's HQ came under fire briefly and he and his escorts had to hide behind trees. A young soldier was whimpering every time a bullet hit his tree, So Sherman started throwing pebbles at the tree to mess with the kid more.
He was 100% right on the cruelty of war. The south fought on and on until the North took the gloves off. What was more cruel, the Georgia and South Carolina marches or two more years of Gettysburg's and Chickamauga's?
i don't disagree with you. the real cruelty the north did on the south was after the war.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Aug 31, 2020 23:07:32 GMT
Sherman was a good man with a quote
"If forced to choose between the penitentiary and the White House for four years, I would say the penitentiary, thank you." "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast." "Fear is the beginning of wisdom" War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over"
"There's many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory but it is all hell." (he never said "War is hell")
Someone said that Sherman, who could never sit or stand still for a second, was "like a little engine with all the screws loose". First man to have a screw loose. At the battle of Atlanta, Sherman's HQ came under fire briefly and he and his escorts had to hide behind trees. A young soldier was whimpering every time a bullet hit his tree, So Sherman started throwing pebbles at the tree to mess with the kid more.
He was 100% right on the cruelty of war. The south fought on and on until the North took the gloves off. What was more cruel, the Georgia and South Carolina marches or two more years of Gettysburg's and Chickamauga's?
i don't disagree with you. the real cruelty the north did on the south was after the war. Could have been a lot worse. Only handful of executions, Henry Wirz, commandant of Andersonville, three guerrillas, and three Confederate soldiers convicted of spying (you could include the four Lincoln assassins). Many wanted Davis, Lee et al to be executed. They could be considered traitors in the strictest sense. Reconstruction was a colossal failure. Things in the South weren't much different in 1876 than in 1860.
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