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Post by ck100 on Dec 16, 2020 1:30:58 GMT
George Lucas: Critics of ‘Star Wars’ Prequel Dialogue ‘Don’t Understand’ the Franchise www.yahoo.com/entertainment/george-lucas-critics-star-wars-225033086.htmlGeorge Lucas does not agree with the critics who have bashed his “Star Wars” prequels over the years due to what they claim is “pretty corny dialogue.” The script for “Star Wars: Attack of the Clones” is often singled out for ridicule due to the cringeworthy romance scenes between Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen) and Padmé Amidala (Natalie Portman). Such Lucas-written lines as “I am haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me” have been widely mocked, but the writer-director says in the new book “The Star Wars Archives 1999-2005” (via NME) that such complaints miss the entire style of the space franchise. “It is presented very honestly, it isn’t tongue-in-cheek at all, and it’s played to the hilt,” Lucas said of the “Attack of the Clones” dialogue. “But it is consistent, not only with the rest of the movie, but with the overall ‘Star Wars’ style. Most people don’t understand the style of ‘Star Wars.’ They don’t get that there’s an underlying motif that is very much like a 1930s Western or Saturday matinee serial.” “It’s in the more romantic period of making movies and adventure films. And this film is even more of a melodrama than the others,” Lucas continued. “There’s a bit more soap opera in this one than there has been in the past, so setting the scenes up and staging them was more complex than it usually is.” To more convincingly pull off the more soap opera dialogue in “Attack of the Clones,” Lucas and his crew would rehearse for individual weeks of filming at a time as opposed to one big rehearsal period ahead of the production (which was the norm on previous “Star Wars” films). “On the previous Saturday, I would spend all day rehearsing with the actors and the cameraman, and we would stage the scene and rehearse it a couple times. So for the rest of the week, we would have a very clear vision of what we were doing, and didn’t have to spend time on the set trying to figure things out.” Hayden Christensen received significant critical scorn for “Attack of the Clones,” but many critics agree the actor did not have the best dialogue to work with at the time. Fortunately, Christensen is getting another shot at the “Star Wars” franchise as he is set to reprise Anakin/Darth Vader in the Disney+ Obi-Wan Kenobi series." ck100: I don't buy Lucas saying that the dialogue and acting in his films that he wrote/directed are intentionally the way they are. I think some of it is due to a lack of skills that Lucas has a writer and director. Actors like Harrison Ford and Terrence Stamp have attested to this. Lucas has always been more of an ideas man than a skilled writer/director.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Dec 16, 2020 1:39:05 GMT
He has a point - Star Wars is a pulpy adventure series that plays with silly ideas all while keeping a straight face. It’s supposed to be brazenly over-the-top and corny.
I think a decent amount of people miss that about them (especially in the two most recent trilogies).
But it’s stupid to say people don’t understand it. Usually they just don’t like that style of dialogue/storytelling.
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Dec 16, 2020 5:14:56 GMT
It's been years since I watched the prequels. I do remember some of the dialogue being pretty bad (midichlorians, anyone?) but its the fact that they looked like turn-of-the-millennium computer games that really turned me off them from the outset. But as you said, OP, Lucas has always been more of an idea man than a great writer/director.
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Post by moviemouth on Dec 16, 2020 9:02:26 GMT
He has a point - Star Wars is a pulpy adventure series that plays with silly ideas all while keeping a straight face. It’s supposed to be brazenly over-the-top and corny. I think a decent amount of people miss that about them (especially in the two most recent trilogies). But it’s stupid to say people don’t understand it. Usually they just don’t like that style of dialogue/storytelling. So why does the OT get a pass? That is what I find confusing about his POV and your opinion about his POV. The people who criticize the prequels the most tend to be big fans of the OT.
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Post by Winter_King on Dec 16, 2020 9:26:10 GMT
The dialogue is bad, particularly in the prequels. George Lucas didn't write Empire which is usually considered the best Star Wars film and apparently had help from Carrie Fisher across the OT so it doesn't look that bad.
I prefer the prequel trilogy but I'll admit that the dialogue in the sequel trilogy is much better.
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Post by johnspartan on Dec 16, 2020 14:00:05 GMT
Those scenes were badly written, badly directed, and badly acted. I respect what Lucas was trying to do, it's a shame he wasn't able to pull off those scenes correctly. He should have imitated the romance from "Romeo and Juliet"(1968) but what we got was clunky and forced like a CW teen show.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 16, 2020 14:13:12 GMT
He has a point - Star Wars is a pulpy adventure series that plays with silly ideas all while keeping a straight face. It’s supposed to be brazenly over-the-top and corny. I think a decent amount of people miss that about them (especially in the two most recent trilogies). But it’s stupid to say people don’t understand it. Usually they just don’t like that style of dialogue/storytelling. Which we understand perfectly which only displays further how bad the dialogue was in the prequels.
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Post by vegalyra on Dec 16, 2020 14:15:40 GMT
The ‘30s serials had better dialogue than the prequels. Well not all of them. I see where Lucas is coming from and the dialogue in the original series wasn’t fantastic outside of maybe Empire. I remember in IV the awkward silence when R2 connects with the Death Stars computer and 3po narrates. Then the characters just look at each other.
What killed the prequels was the horrible over reliance on CGI instead of practical effects. That’s what did those films in for me.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 16, 2020 16:21:10 GMT
You can have old fashioned dialogue delivered with sincerity that doesn’t suck. I don’t even hate the prequel trilogy but those scenes between Annakin and Padme in AOTC were simply not well written well for the most part. The one exception perhaps being the scene they share by the fire. There’s an element of danger suggested by their conversation, and it does actually add some tension. This is carried over to the scene in ROTS when she tells him she’s pregnant. That’s actually not badly written.
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Post by Spike Del Rey on Dec 16, 2020 17:16:32 GMT
I agree with what most have said, the dialogue in the prequels was pretty atrocious. Sure, it was stilted in ANH, but that movie still had a warmth to it that's lacking from the PT...and I'm one that likes those movies for the most part. Not sure what happened to Lucas as a director in the twenty years after he directed ANH, but he showed in that as well as American Graffiti before that he can be effective and get good performances from his actors...and in the case of the PT movies, he probably had more talented ones across the board than he had on those previous movies. Lucas is a fantastic innovator in terms of the technical advances of cinema, but somewhere along the line he lost his talent at writing and directing.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Dec 16, 2020 18:45:28 GMT
He has a point - Star Wars is a pulpy adventure series that plays with silly ideas all while keeping a straight face. It’s supposed to be brazenly over-the-top and corny. I think a decent amount of people miss that about them (especially in the two most recent trilogies). But it’s stupid to say people don’t understand it. Usually they just don’t like that style of dialogue/storytelling. So why does the OT get a pass? That is what I find confusing about his POV and your opinion about his POV. The people who criticize the prequels the most tend to be big fans of the OT. Nostalgia. They released in the late 70s and early 80s, so there’s some expected corniness from the era in general. Also, most complaints from OT fans have little to do with the more cheesy sci-fi/fantasy lines - it’s the romance/teen angst stuff. There was very little of the grim teen angle (if any) in the OT and the Han/Leia romance was written much better than the Anakin/Padme one. Most of the criticism leveled on the Prequels has to do with the excessive use of CGI. I think most OT fans would keep the exact same script for each movie if it meant they could see more practical effects and real locations.
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Post by moviemouth on Dec 16, 2020 20:41:55 GMT
So why does the OT get a pass? That is what I find confusing about his POV and your opinion about his POV. The people who criticize the prequels the most tend to be big fans of the OT. Nostalgia. They released in the late 70s and early 80s, so there’s some expected corniness from the era in general. Also, most complaints from OT fans have little to do with the more cheesy sci-fi/fantasy lines - it’s the romance/teen angst stuff. There was very little of the grim teen angle (if any) in the OT and the Han/Leia romance was written much better than the Anakin/Padme one. Most of the criticism leveled on the Prequels has to do with the excessive use of CGI. I think most OT fans would keep the exact same script for each movie if it meant they could see more practical effects and real locations. But I think the prequels have worse dialogue than the OT and I like the prequels and am not a Star Wars OT fanboy. Some of the dialogue between Padme and Anakin is cringe-y and to say it is because it is fantasy is a cop-out imo.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Dec 16, 2020 20:48:43 GMT
There's a difference between "underlying motif" and throwing all of that stuff at the forefront. It also feels like the OT is an homage to things people actually like in old cinema - Han and Leia's romance is clearly modeled after Rhett and Scarlet, for example - while the PT is homaging things...not so well liked. "Soap opera", "melodrama", and "played to the hilt" aren't great ways to describe a romance anyone should care about. Then we have aliens modeled after Fu Manchu and minstrel shows. The question isn't "Are these things homages?", it's "Why would you homage these things and expect a modern audience to like them?"
And even if shitty dialogue and racist caricatures is always what SW was supposed to be, fortunately for us the OT was a far less unilateral endeavor. He had other writers, outside help, and actors willing to tell him fuck off if they couldn't make a line work.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 16, 2020 20:53:37 GMT
Dialogue was never a strong point for the franchise.
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Post by hi224 on Dec 16, 2020 20:54:23 GMT
George Lucas: Critics of ‘Star Wars’ Prequel Dialogue ‘Don’t Understand’ the Franchise www.yahoo.com/entertainment/george-lucas-critics-star-wars-225033086.htmlGeorge Lucas does not agree with the critics who have bashed his “Star Wars” prequels over the years due to what they claim is “pretty corny dialogue.” The script for “Star Wars: Attack of the Clones” is often singled out for ridicule due to the cringeworthy romance scenes between Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen) and Padmé Amidala (Natalie Portman). Such Lucas-written lines as “I am haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me” have been widely mocked, but the writer-director says in the new book “The Star Wars Archives 1999-2005” (via NME) that such complaints miss the entire style of the space franchise. “It is presented very honestly, it isn’t tongue-in-cheek at all, and it’s played to the hilt,” Lucas said of the “Attack of the Clones” dialogue. “But it is consistent, not only with the rest of the movie, but with the overall ‘Star Wars’ style. Most people don’t understand the style of ‘Star Wars.’ They don’t get that there’s an underlying motif that is very much like a 1930s Western or Saturday matinee serial.” “It’s in the more romantic period of making movies and adventure films. And this film is even more of a melodrama than the others,” Lucas continued. “There’s a bit more soap opera in this one than there has been in the past, so setting the scenes up and staging them was more complex than it usually is.” To more convincingly pull off the more soap opera dialogue in “Attack of the Clones,” Lucas and his crew would rehearse for individual weeks of filming at a time as opposed to one big rehearsal period ahead of the production (which was the norm on previous “Star Wars” films). “On the previous Saturday, I would spend all day rehearsing with the actors and the cameraman, and we would stage the scene and rehearse it a couple times. So for the rest of the week, we would have a very clear vision of what we were doing, and didn’t have to spend time on the set trying to figure things out.” Hayden Christensen received significant critical scorn for “Attack of the Clones,” but many critics agree the actor did not have the best dialogue to work with at the time. Fortunately, Christensen is getting another shot at the “Star Wars” franchise as he is set to reprise Anakin/Darth Vader in the Disney+ Obi-Wan Kenobi series." ck100: I don't buy Lucas saying that the dialogue and acting in his films that he wrote/directed are intentionally the way they are. I think some of it is due to a lack of skills that Lucas has a writer and director. Actors like Harrison Ford and Terrence Stamp have attested to this. Lucas has always been more of an ideas man than a skilled writer/director. eh.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Dec 16, 2020 21:11:46 GMT
I don't hate the prequels. But the whole "you don't like it because you don't get it" schtick is just embarrassing.
People "get it" and still think it sucks. Get over yourself.
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Dec 16, 2020 21:22:21 GMT
George’s dialogue isn’t necessarily inherently bad, but he really needs some pushback to make it work in execution. It’s not a coincidence most of the best Star Wars films/shows involve him as a writer while also having others available to keep him in check.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Dec 16, 2020 21:25:00 GMT
Nostalgia. They released in the late 70s and early 80s, so there’s some expected corniness from the era in general. Also, most complaints from OT fans have little to do with the more cheesy sci-fi/fantasy lines - it’s the romance/teen angst stuff. There was very little of the grim teen angle (if any) in the OT and the Han/Leia romance was written much better than the Anakin/Padme one. Most of the criticism leveled on the Prequels has to do with the excessive use of CGI. I think most OT fans would keep the exact same script for each movie if it meant they could see more practical effects and real locations. But I think the prequels have worse dialogue than the OT and I like the prequels and am not a Star Wars OT fanboy. Some of the dialogue between Padme and Anakin is cringe-y and to say it is because it is fantasy is a cop-out imo. No, I agree. I was saying people have more issues with the Prequels because the romance/teen/child dialogue is bad as opposed to actually disliking the pulpy plot stuff.
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Post by moviemouth on Dec 16, 2020 21:37:51 GMT
But I think the prequels have worse dialogue than the OT and I like the prequels and am not a Star Wars OT fanboy. Some of the dialogue between Padme and Anakin is cringe-y and to say it is because it is fantasy is a cop-out imo. No, I agree. I was saying people have more issues with the Prequels because the romance/teen/child dialogue is bad as opposed to actually disliking the pulpy plot stuff. I agree. Obviously there are many more things people dislike about the prequels than just the dialogue. Which is why I find his defense of the dialogue even sillier. It is as if he thinks that is the main reason people dislike the prequels.
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Post by mstreepsucks on Dec 16, 2020 21:58:21 GMT
George Lucas: Critics of ‘Star Wars’ Prequel Dialogue ‘Don’t Understand’ the Franchise www.yahoo.com/entertainment/george-lucas-critics-star-wars-225033086.htmlGeorge Lucas does not agree with the critics who have bashed his “Star Wars” prequels over the years due to what they claim is “pretty corny dialogue.” The script for “Star Wars: Attack of the Clones” is often singled out for ridicule due to the cringeworthy romance scenes between Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen) and Padmé Amidala (Natalie Portman). Such Lucas-written lines as “I am haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me” have been widely mocked, but the writer-director says in the new book “The Star Wars Archives 1999-2005” (via NME) that such complaints miss the entire style of the space franchise. “It is presented very honestly, it isn’t tongue-in-cheek at all, and it’s played to the hilt,” Lucas said of the “Attack of the Clones” dialogue. “But it is consistent, not only with the rest of the movie, but with the overall ‘Star Wars’ style. Most people don’t understand the style of ‘Star Wars.’ They don’t get that there’s an underlying motif that is very much like a 1930s Western or Saturday matinee serial.” “It’s in the more romantic period of making movies and adventure films. And this film is even more of a melodrama than the others,” Lucas continued. “There’s a bit more soap opera in this one than there has been in the past, so setting the scenes up and staging them was more complex than it usually is.” To more convincingly pull off the more soap opera dialogue in “Attack of the Clones,” Lucas and his crew would rehearse for individual weeks of filming at a time as opposed to one big rehearsal period ahead of the production (which was the norm on previous “Star Wars” films). “On the previous Saturday, I would spend all day rehearsing with the actors and the cameraman, and we would stage the scene and rehearse it a couple times. So for the rest of the week, we would have a very clear vision of what we were doing, and didn’t have to spend time on the set trying to figure things out.” Hayden Christensen received significant critical scorn for “Attack of the Clones,” but many critics agree the actor did not have the best dialogue to work with at the time. Fortunately, Christensen is getting another shot at the “Star Wars” franchise as he is set to reprise Anakin/Darth Vader in the Disney+ Obi-Wan Kenobi series." ck100: I don't buy Lucas saying that the dialogue and acting in his films that he wrote/directed are intentionally the way they are. I think some of it is due to a lack of skills that Lucas has a writer and director. Actors like Harrison Ford and Terrence Stamp have attested to this. Lucas has always been more of an ideas man than a skilled writer/director. I frankly do buy lucas saying that. Because during filming the films, an actor would say a line, then ask if lucas wanted to do another take, and lucas was like nah. And also some parts when the person that played anakin: He would do a take where he actually sounded menecing and intimidating, and a take where he sounded like a whiny bitch. Lucas went with the second one.
Or the first take, depending on what order they were in. But he just went with the take where he sounded like a whiny bitch , other than the other take on it.
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