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Post by Rodney Farber on Dec 18, 2020 11:10:12 GMT
This thread could have been part of the If God can do anything can he make a mistake? thread. Alternately, it could have been part of the Who has banned Christmas in America thread.
Why don't Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate Christmas? They did until 1926. This is a photo of Joseph Rutherford at a JW Christmas celebration.
Why don't JW's celebrate birthdays? (Happy Birthday CoolJGS)
Their reason (read: excuse) is that those are pagan celebrations. SO WHAT. Do JW's have their own rituals said at certain times of the year? So what's the big deal with really old celebrations.
After all, JW's wear wedding rings and eat cake at weddings. How old are those pre-Christian traditions?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 18, 2020 12:35:53 GMT
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 18, 2020 12:57:45 GMT
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 18, 2020 13:01:42 GMT
I couldn't find anything on rituals that JW's perform.
Perhaps OP is discussing the Memorial that Jesus told his followers to keep doing?
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Post by Isapop on Dec 18, 2020 14:46:26 GMT
And yet the Watchtower does not use that very same reasoning when it comes to prohibiting birthday parties: Why Don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses Celebrate Birthdays? Birthday celebrations have pagan roots. According to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend, these celebrations originated from the belief that on a person’s birthday, “evil spirits and influences have the opportunity to attack the celebrants” and that “the presence of friends and the expression of good wishes help to protect the celebrant.” The book The Lore of Birthdays says that in ancient times, birthday records were “essential for the casting of a horoscope” based on “the mystic science of astrology.” This book adds that “birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes.” The Bible, however, condemns the use of magic, divination, spiritism, or “anything like this.” www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/birthdays/
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 18, 2020 15:09:50 GMT
And yet the Watchtower does not use that very same reasoning when it comes to prohibiting birthday parties: Why Don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses Celebrate Birthdays? Birthday celebrations have pagan roots. According to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend, these celebrations originated from the belief that on a person’s birthday, “evil spirits and influences have the opportunity to attack the celebrants” and that “the presence of friends and the expression of good wishes help to protect the celebrant.” The book The Lore of Birthdays says that in ancient times, birthday records were “essential for the casting of a horoscope” based on “the mystic science of astrology.” This book adds that “birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes.” The Bible, however, condemns the use of magic, divination, spiritism, or “anything like this.” www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/birthdays/ Well that would be if that was the only thing they said about it. The main line I get from them is there was never a good person shown in the Bible celebrating a birthday in addition to the pagan roots as opposed to wedding rings being used primarily to show someone is married. In other words the original purpose may have overtaken by current purpose. Now I happened to agree that the birthday thing is silly based on the Bible example since it is exactly the same thing as anniversaries which they can have since there are no Biblical examples. Of good people can have anniversaries, it would seem they can handle birthdays too.
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 15:15:58 GMT
This thread could have been part of the If God can do anything can he make a mistake? thread. Alternately, it could have been part of the Who has banned Christmas in America thread.
Why don't Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate Christmas? They did until 1926. This is a photo of Joseph Rutherford at a JW Christmas celebration.
Why don't JW's celebrate birthdays? (Happy Birthday CoolJGS)
Their reason (read: excuse) is that those are pagan celebrations. SO WHAT. Do JW's have their own rituals said at certain times of the year? So what's the big deal with really old celebrations.
After all, JW's wear wedding rings and eat cake at weddings. How old are those pre-Christian traditions?
Interestingly, the Jackson 5 recorded a Christmas album, even though they were JW.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 18, 2020 15:20:05 GMT
This thread could have been part of the If God can do anything can he make a mistake? thread. Alternately, it could have been part of the Who has banned Christmas in America thread.
Why don't Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate Christmas? They did until 1926. This is a photo of Joseph Rutherford at a JW Christmas celebration.
Why don't JW's celebrate birthdays? (Happy Birthday CoolJGS)
Their reason (read: excuse) is that those are pagan celebrations. SO WHAT. Do JW's have their own rituals said at certain times of the year? So what's the big deal with really old celebrations.
After all, JW's wear wedding rings and eat cake at weddings. How old are those pre-Christian traditions?
Interestingly, the Jackson 5 recorded a Christmas album, even though they were JW. They may not have been baptized so as long as the mom wasn;t singing with them,it wouldn't matter.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 18, 2020 15:38:38 GMT
And yet the Watchtower does not use that very same reasoning when it comes to prohibiting birthday parties: Why Don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses Celebrate Birthdays? Birthday celebrations have pagan roots. According to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend, these celebrations originated from the belief that on a person’s birthday, “evil spirits and influences have the opportunity to attack the celebrants” and that “the presence of friends and the expression of good wishes help to protect the celebrant.” The book The Lore of Birthdays says that in ancient times, birthday records were “essential for the casting of a horoscope” based on “the mystic science of astrology.” This book adds that “birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes.” The Bible, however, condemns the use of magic, divination, spiritism, or “anything like this.” www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/birthdays/Well that would be if that was the only thing they said about it. Now I happened to agree that the birthday thing is silly based on the Bible example since it is exactly the same thing as anniversaries which they can have since there are no Biblical examples. Of good people can have anniversaries, it would seem they can handle birthdays too. That's why I didn't bother quoting the whole article. The "pagan root" reason is the center of it. The rest is trimming and doesn't deserve to even be addressed. And exactly the same thing can said for birthday parties. So, yes the prohibition is, as you say, silly. What's not silly are the sanctions in store for a JW who would speak out in their congregation about the prohibition being silly.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 18, 2020 16:33:55 GMT
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 18, 2020 16:38:28 GMT
Well that would be if that was the only thing they said about it. Now I happened to agree that the birthday thing is silly based on the Bible example since it is exactly the same thing as anniversaries which they can have since there are no Biblical examples. Of good people can have anniversaries, it would seem they can handle birthdays too. That's why I didn't bother quoting the whole article. The "pagan root" reason is the center of it. The rest is trimming and doesn't deserve to even be addressed. And exactly the same thing can said for birthday parties. So, yes the prohibition is, as you say, silly. What's not silly are the sanctions in store for a JW who would speak out in their congregation about the prohibition being silly. I was in the middle of my post for a long time as work is busy, but it shows the pagan origins is NOT the center of it, but rather its depiction in Scripture. In short, it's depiction is Scripture is entirely the reason birthdays are different. After all, they did have other parties in the Bible. And let's not turn this into something sillier the their view of birthday parties. JW's can speak about whatever they wish. Changes routinely come from speaking up and researching things. However, they shouldn't assume things will change just because they want them too since that would be...Well...silly.
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Post by permutojoe on Dec 18, 2020 16:53:36 GMT
Do JW's use their own names for days and months too?
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Post by Isapop on Dec 18, 2020 17:09:25 GMT
That's why I didn't bother quoting the whole article. The "pagan root" reason is the center of it. The rest is trimming and doesn't deserve to even be addressed. And exactly the same thing can said for birthday parties. So, yes the prohibition is, as you say, silly. What's not silly are the sanctions in store for a JW who would speak out in their congregation about the prohibition being silly.I was in the middle of my post for a long time as work is busy, but it shows the pagan origins is NOT the center of it, but rather its depiction in Scripture. In short, it's depiction is Scripture is entirely the reason birthdays are different. After all, they did have other parties in the Bible. Since we both agree the prohibition is silly, there is no further need to go over the Watchtower's reasoning behind it.I said nothing about anyone assuming things will change just because they want them to. (Yes, that would be silly.) But for you to suggest that a JW could, without risk of official action, spread around their congregation the idea that the Watchtower is wrong in prohibiting birthday parties completely ignores the instructions given to their elders on what should happen to those who "spread false teachings" (as they would put it).
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 18, 2020 19:56:30 GMT
I was in the middle of my post for a long time as work is busy, but it shows the pagan origins is NOT the center of it, but rather its depiction in Scripture. In short, it's depiction is Scripture is entirely the reason birthdays are different. After all, they did have other parties in the Bible. Since we both agree the prohibition is silly, there is no further need to go over the Watchtower's reasoning behind it.I said nothing about anyone assuming things will change just because they want them to. (Yes, that would be silly.) But for you to suggest that a JW could, without risk of official action, spread around their congregation the idea that the Watchtower is wrong in prohibiting birthday parties completely ignores the instructions given to their elders on what should happen to those who "spread false teachings" (as they would put it). Well, it's always good to review since even if we both find it silly, the reasons for it are what they are and not just what we think. You seem to think that what JW's want to do is go around and think birthday parties are ok but are scared to say it which is indeed silly. There is no reason for them to not agree to it just like any of their other teachings. But they can certainly ask why. That's why it's still a topic for discussion with them. Witnesses DO NOT get disfellowshipped on the basis of disagreement but on actions that are contrary to their standards which is entirely different. You can want to have sex, but you better not do it unless you're married. It's perfectly fine to want to have a party and gifts which is why they have tons of them indiscriminately throughout the year including anniversaries. Honestly they're kinda party animals if you remove the alcohol.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 18, 2020 21:21:39 GMT
Since we both agree the prohibition is silly, there is no further need to go over the Watchtower's reasoning behind it.I said nothing about anyone assuming things will change just because they want them to. (Yes, that would be silly.) But for you to suggest that a JW could, without risk of official action, spread around their congregation the idea that the Watchtower is wrong in prohibiting birthday parties completely ignores the instructions given to their elders on what should happen to those who "spread false teachings" (as they would put it). You seem to think that what JW's want to do is go around and think birthday parties are ok but are scared to say it which is indeed silly. No, that's not what I think. Do you find it easier to imagine what I think and deal with that instead of dealing with what I say?I didn't say a JW risks getting disfellowshipped (along with the shunning that follows) for disagreeing. They run that risk for an action, the action of promoting in their congregation the idea that the Watchtower is wrong in prohibiting birthday parties. They risk being found to be spreading false teaching. And a JW can be disfellowshipped for that action.And, given that risk of shunning, that's the part that's not silly. (Just as an example for comparison, a Catholic can promote within their congregation the idea that the Vatican's prohibition on birth control is wrong without fear of excommunication.)
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 21:38:54 GMT
Interestingly, the Jackson 5 recorded a Christmas album, even though they were JW. They may not have been baptized so as long as the mom wasn;t singing with them, it wouldn't matter. Interesting. Thanks for explaining that to me.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 18, 2020 22:36:49 GMT
I grew up in Jehovah`s Witnesses until 1994 when i was 11, and as far as i remember they don`t celebrate it because they view it as a holiday with a pagan origin.
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Post by novastar6 on Dec 19, 2020 1:14:28 GMT
This thread could have been part of the If God can do anything can he make a mistake? thread. Alternately, it could have been part of the Who has banned Christmas in America thread.
Why don't Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate Christmas? They did until 1926. This is a photo of Joseph Rutherford at a JW Christmas celebration.
Why don't JW's celebrate birthdays? (Happy Birthday CoolJGS)
Their reason (read: excuse) is that those are pagan celebrations. SO WHAT. Do JW's have their own rituals said at certain times of the year? So what's the big deal with really old celebrations.
After all, JW's wear wedding rings and eat cake at weddings. How old are those pre-Christian traditions?
Interestingly, the Jackson 5 recorded a Christmas album, even though they were JW.
I always feel conflicted listening to those. Music's great, but you know it's all a lie, they had nothing, no Christmas, that's just SAD.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 19, 2020 1:24:02 GMT
I grew up in Jehovah`s Witnesses until 1994 when i was 11, and as far as i remember they don`t celebrate it because they view it as a holiday with a pagan origin. You’re a former Jehovah’s Witness? Or you parents were? My parents were, but i was dragged along with my siblings to every meeting they went to before they left. So even if i don`t think i technically was a member i did grow up in Jehovah`s Witnesses for the first 11 years of my life.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 19, 2020 1:36:20 GMT
My parents were, but i was dragged along with my siblings to every meeting they went to before they left. So even if i don`t think i technically was a member i did grow up in Jehovah`s Witnesses for the first 11 years of my life. Since JW is a product of the antebellum Second Great Awakening, you got a peek into the American fundamentalist religious zeitgeist. No i did not, as i am Norwegian and grew up in Norway.
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