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Post by Rodney Farber on Dec 20, 2020 14:56:48 GMT
You are effectively segregating yourselves from society. You don't socialize with wordly people and consider yourself superior. As you treat us worldly people as inferior, you can't have any complaints when we do the same. Perhaps you should consider starting your own colony on North Sentinal Island.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Dec 20, 2020 15:13:02 GMT
I couldn't find anything on rituals that JW's perform. Perhaps OP is discussing the Memorial that Jesus told his followers to keep doing? Anything done on a predictable basis is a ritual. My morning cup of coffee is a ritual. Do you say prayers before going to sleep? That’s a ritual. How about your thrice-weekly meetings? They are rituals. How about “Always Rejoice”. According to online articles, JWs celebrate the last supper. Personally, I think it’s more appropriate to celebrate someone’s birth rather than their death. If you’re going to celebrate someone’s death, why not celebrate the death of someone evil like Saddam Hussein or Charles Manson? It’s one thing for an organization to encourage certain celebrations. To forbid the celebration of non-derogatory events, such as birthdays, is nothing more than mind control. You’re too indoctrinated to see that. So what if it has pagan roots. Has any pagan ever insulted a Jehovah Witness? If JWs left us alone, I wouldn’t be so negative on this forum. But you don’t. You stand in my subway and preach with your in-your-face washboards of half-truths. Which raises the question: If JW is the best thing since sliced bread, why is it necessary for you to preach? Why don’t all worldly people flock to Kingdom Halls without your prodding? Doesn’t it strike you as odd that nothing was written about Jesus until 30+ years after his death. In 30 years, a lot of puffery to the Jesus legend could surface.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 20, 2020 15:27:40 GMT
I couldn't find anything on rituals that JW's perform. Perhaps OP is discussing the Memorial that Jesus told his followers to keep doing? Anything done on a predictable basis is a ritual. My morning cup of coffee is a ritual. Do you say prayers before going to sleep? That’s a ritual. How about your thrice-weekly meetings? They are rituals. How about “Always Rejoice”. According to online articles, JWs celebrate the last supper. Personally, I think it’s more appropriate to celebrate someone’s birth rather than their death. If you’re going to celebrate someone’s death, why not celebrate the death of someone evil like Saddam Hussein or Charles Manson? It’s one thing for an organization to encourage certain celebrations. To forbid the celebration of non-derogatory events, such as birthdays, is nothing more than mind control. You’re too indoctrinated to see that. So what if it has pagan roots. Has any pagan ever insulted a Jehovah Witness? If JWs left us alone, I wouldn’t be so negative on this forum. But you don’t. You stand in my subway and preach with your in-your-face washboards of half-truths. Which raises the question: If JW is the best thing since sliced bread, why is it necessary for you to preach? Why don’t all worldly people flock to Kingdom Halls without your prodding? Doesn’t it strike you as odd that nothing was written about Jesus until 30+ years after his death. In 30 years, a lot of puffery to the Jesus legend could surface. "You stand in my subway"In what way is it your subway and not theirs? A phrase like the one you used is a tell tale sign that your criticisms are poorly thought out.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Dec 24, 2020 20:42:35 GMT
Anything done on a predictable basis is a ritual. My morning cup of coffee is a ritual. Do you say prayers before going to sleep? That’s a ritual. How about your thrice-weekly meetings? They are rituals. How about “Always Rejoice”. According to online articles, JWs celebrate the last supper. Personally, I think it’s more appropriate to celebrate someone’s birth rather than their death. If you’re going to celebrate someone’s death, why not celebrate the death of someone evil like Saddam Hussein or Charles Manson? It’s one thing for an organization to encourage certain celebrations. To forbid the celebration of non-derogatory events, such as birthdays, is nothing more than mind control. You’re too indoctrinated to see that. So what if it has pagan roots. Has any pagan ever insulted a Jehovah Witness? If JWs left us alone, I wouldn’t be so negative on this forum. But you don’t. You stand in my subway and preach with your in-your-face washboards of half-truths. Which raises the question: If JW is the best thing since sliced bread, why is it necessary for you to preach? Why don’t all worldly people flock to Kingdom Halls without your prodding? Doesn’t it strike you as odd that nothing was written about Jesus until 30+ years after his death. In 30 years, a lot of puffery to the Jesus legend could surface. "You stand in my subway"In what way is it your subway and not theirs? A phrase like the one you used is a tell tale sign that your criticisms are poorly thought out. Subways are public areas, funded by the public and used by people of any religion or no religion. If you, a JW, can preach in the subway, so too can a Roman Catholic, a Muslim, a Jew or a Hindu. Maybe you JWs need a little competition, a little push-back. Of course, it would get pretty crowded down there and people couldn't get to work on time. What if an Atheist started to knock on your door regularly, trying to give you literature to influence you to change your belief system? Any pairs of Mormon boys show up with their door-to-door literature and talk to you about converting to Mormonism? Religions are protected as private organizations; maybe you should consider not using public places to spread your personal, private beliefs.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Dec 24, 2020 22:09:11 GMT
"You stand in my subway"In what way is it your subway and not theirs?A phrase like the one you used is a tell tale sign that your criticisms are poorly thought out. Perhaps I should have said, “my local subway stop”, or “my city’s subway”. One thing’s for sure: it is NOT their subway. I’ve never seen a JW pay a subway fare or get on a train. On multiple occasions, I have seen JWs get picked up by a van at the end of their obligatory shift. To me, they are loitering in the climate-controlled area outside the turnstiles. Would a homeless person be allowed to loiter in the warmth of the subway? Granted, the subway is a public place. However, like city hall or the public library, the subway is a venue with specific purpose. Are JWs allowed to preach on the steps of city hall or inside the library? They should preach on sidewalks like other bible-beaters? (I do see JWs on sidewalks as well. That is not the topic of this post). For an organization that is openly contemptuous of government, they have no problem using the government when it suits them.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 24, 2020 23:35:09 GMT
"You stand in my subway"In what way is it your subway and not theirs?A phrase like the one you used is a tell tale sign that your criticisms are poorly thought out. Perhaps I should have said, “my local subway stop”, or “my city’s subway”. One thing’s for sure: it is NOT their subway. I’ve never seen a JW pay a subway fare or get on a train. On multiple occasions, I have seen JWs get picked up by a van at the end of their obligatory shift. To me, they are loitering in the climate-controlled area outside the turnstiles. Would a homeless person be allowed to loiter in the warmth of the subway? Granted, the subway is a public place. However, like city hall or the public library, the subway is a venue with specific purpose. Are JWs allowed to preach on the steps of city hall or inside the library? They should preach on sidewalks like other bible-beaters? (I do see JWs on sidewalks as well. That is not the topic of this post). For an organization that is openly contemptuous of government, they have no problem using the government when it suits them. Now it's "my city's subway"? You think maybe it could be their city's subway too? Your claim on the subway is no greater than theirs. From now on, I suggest you just say "THE subway". It sounds less ridiculous.So now you can tell the religion of individuals riding the subway? Amazing. Look up "loitering". They're not loitering. And whether it's in a subway station or on a sidewalk, if they're not impeding pedestrians they're a bother to no one but apparently you.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 24, 2020 23:45:43 GMT
"You stand in my subway"In what way is it your subway and not theirs? A phrase like the one you used is a tell tale sign that your criticisms are poorly thought out. Subways are public areas, funded by the public and used by people of any religion or no religion. If you, a JW, can preach in the subway, so too can a Roman Catholic, a Muslim, a Jew or a Hindu. Maybe you JWs need a little competition, a little push-back. Of course, it would get pretty crowded down there and people couldn't get to work on time. What if an Atheist started to knock on your door regularly, trying to give you literature to influence you to change your belief system? Any pairs of Mormon boys show up with their door-to-door literature and talk to you about converting to Mormonism? Religions are protected as private organizations; maybe you should consider not using public places to spread your personal, private beliefs. If people handing out leaflets became an obstruction to pedestrians, the city would of course have to do something about it. Are you under the misimpression I'm a JW?
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Dec 25, 2020 15:33:01 GMT
Subways are public areas, funded by the public and used by people of any religion or no religion. If you, a JW, can preach in the subway, so too can a Roman Catholic, a Muslim, a Jew or a Hindu. Maybe you JWs need a little competition, a little push-back. Of course, it would get pretty crowded down there and people couldn't get to work on time. What if an Atheist started to knock on your door regularly, trying to give you literature to influence you to change your belief system? Any pairs of Mormon boys show up with their door-to-door literature and talk to you about converting to Mormonism? Religions are protected as private organizations; maybe you should consider not using public places to spread your personal, private beliefs. If people handing out leaflets became an obstruction to pedestrians, the city would of course have to do something about it. Are you under the misimpression I'm a JW?
No, not at all, my JW points were aimed at CoolJGS; somehow I got muddled with who I was responding to... with all the restated quotes, then responses, it's hard to keep track of who said what to whom and when!
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Post by Isapop on Dec 25, 2020 17:10:18 GMT
somehow I got muddled with who I was responding to...it's hard to keep track of who said what to whom and when! Ah. Sounds less like Christmas and more like New Year's Eve.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Jan 5, 2021 10:30:32 GMT
Perhaps I should have said, “my local subway stop”, or “my city’s subway”. One thing’s for sure: it is NOT their subway. I’ve never seen a JW pay a subway fare or get on a train. On multiple occasions, I have seen JWs get picked up by a van at the end of their obligatory shift. To me, they are loitering in the climate-controlled area outside the turnstiles. Would a homeless person be allowed to loiter in the warmth of the subway? Granted, the subway is a public place. However, like city hall or the public library, the subway is a venue with specific purpose. Are JWs allowed to preach on the steps of city hall or inside the library? They should preach on sidewalks like other bible-beaters? (I do see JWs on sidewalks as well. That is not the topic of this post). For an organization that is openly contemptuous of government, they have no problem using the government when it suits them. Now it's "my city's subway"? You think maybe it could be their city's subway too? Your claim on the subway is no greater than theirs. From now on, I suggest you just say "THE subway". It sounds less ridiculous.So now you can tell the religion of individuals riding the subway? Amazing. Look up "loitering". They're not loitering. And whether it's in a subway station or on a sidewalk, if they're not impeding pedestrians they're a bother to no one but apparently you. It is “my city’s subway” as in “the subway of the city in which I live”. The use of the possessive “city” negates your word twisting. Using the subway to get to work on Tuesday does not give one an unfettered right to use it for other purposes on Saturday. The usual rack of JW bible pamphlets is unmistakable if seen on a train, even if covered. When I have observed JWs arriving or leaving for their obligatory shift of proselytizing, it is never via the subway. Some JWs may use the subway to commute to their proselytizing, but I have never observed same. Please address my entire rebuttal, not just one sentence. Have you ever seen a JW preach on the steps of city hall, a public library, or a public school? If they are not allowed to proselytize at a public school, why should they be allowed to proselytize in the public subway? Where do you draw the line for a public building? I contend that everyone, including us worldly folk, should utilize a public building only for the purposes for which it was constructed. Going back to the original post in this thread: I’m still waiting for a JW to tell me the need to cajole worldly people. If Jehovah is the one true God, everyone would already know it. If Jehovah has all these rules that He wants me to obey, why doesn’t He tell me personally? How many of you Jehovah’ Witnesses have been told directly by Jehovah not to celebrate birthdays? I’m quite capable interpreting the Bible. Why do you allow eight men in Warwick, New York, to do it for you? According to November’s Watchtower, there have been over 5000 JW deaths due to Covid. That’s about 600 per million. That's the same death rate (as of October) for us worldly folk. I wonder why Jehovah does not withhold Covid from witnesses.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 5, 2021 15:42:05 GMT
Now it's "my city's subway"? You think maybe it could be their city's subway too? Your claim on the subway is no greater than theirs. From now on, I suggest you just say "THE subway". It sounds less ridiculous.So now you can tell the religion of individuals riding the subway? Amazing. Look up "loitering". They're not loitering. And whether it's in a subway station or on a sidewalk, if they're not impeding pedestrians they're a bother to no one but apparently you. It is “my city’s subway” as in “the subway of the city in which I live”. The use of the possessive “city” negates your word twisting. Using the subway to get to work on Tuesday does not give one an unfettered right to use it for other purposes on Saturday. The usual rack of JW bible pamphlets is unmistakable if seen on a train, even if covered. When I have observed JWs arriving or leaving for their obligatory shift of proselytizing, it is never via the subway. Some JWs may use the subway to commute to their proselytizing, but I have never observed same. Please address my entire rebuttal, not just one sentence. Have you ever seen a JW preach on the steps of city hall, a public library, or a public school? If they are not allowed to proselytize at a public school, why should they be allowed to proselytize in the public subway? Where do you draw the line for a public building? I contend that everyone, including us worldly folk, should utilize a public building only for the purposes for which it was constructed. Going back to the original post in this thread: I’m still waiting for a JW to tell me the need to cajole worldly people. If Jehovah is the one true God, everyone would already know it. If Jehovah has all these rules that He wants me to obey, why doesn’t He tell me personally? How many of you Jehovah’ Witnesses have been told directly by Jehovah not to celebrate birthdays? I’m quite capable interpreting the Bible. Why do you allow eight men in Warwick, New York, to do it for you? According to November’s Watchtower, there have been over 5000 JW deaths due to Covid. That’s about 600 per million. That's the same death rate (as of October) for us worldly folk. I wonder why Jehovah does not withhold Covid from witnesses. "Using the subway to get to work on Tuesday does not give one an unfettered right to use it for other purposes on Saturday."
I'm curious as to what makes you think so? People with just a mild acquaintance with the 1st Amendment would quickly see that anyone who wants to stand in a subway station offering a message to anyone who's interested has the legal right to do so.
"If they are not allowed to proselytize at a public school, why should they be allowed to proselytize in the public subway?"
The word "public" means different things whether you are talking about a public school, public subway, public thoroughfare, public library, public company, public washroom, etc. The law recognizes that. Common sense tells us that. And states and cities can and do make laws with those differences in mind. So yes, the law stops someone from doing in a public school what it permits in a subway station. (And I can't help but believe that if it were someone in the subway with a non-religious message you wouldn't be griping about it.)
"Going back to the original post in this thread: I’m still waiting for a JW to tell me..."
As for the rest, if you were really interested in those answers you wouldn't plead for some JW to join your thread. You would just use the internet to research the answers. Or better yet, since you're always seeing them on the subway, give yourself an extra ten minutes for once and ask them your questions directly. It beats just whining about it on a message board.
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Post by looking4klingons on Jan 10, 2021 6:05:28 GMT
You seem to think that what JW's want to do is go around and think birthday parties are ok but are scared to say it which is indeed silly. No, that's not what I think. Do you find it easier to imagine what I think and deal with that instead of dealing with what I say?I didn't say a JW risks getting disfellowshipped (along with the shunning that follows) for disagreeing. They run that risk for an action, the action of promoting in their congregation the idea that the Watchtower is wrong in prohibiting birthday parties. They risk being found to be spreading false teaching. And a JW can be disfellowshipped for that action.And, given that risk of shunning, that's the part that's not silly. (Just as an example for comparison, a Catholic can promote within their congregation the idea that the Vatican's prohibition on birth control is wrong without fear of excommunication.) Yes, we try to follow Jehovah's Word. Part of that, is Hebrews 13:17 "Be obedient to (who?) those who are TAKING THE LEAD AMONG YOU, and BE SUBMISSIVE....." Such an attitude is not popular in this current System. It's quite obvious.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 10, 2021 14:26:25 GMT
Yes, we try to follow Jehovah's Word. The Watchtower tries to "follow Jehovah's Word" except when Jehovah's Word doesn't suit them. As I pointed out in the past to you (and you left unaddressed) both Exodus 20:11 and 31:17 explicitly say the earth was created within the six creative days of Genesis. But, contrary to that, the WT asserts that the earth was in existence for an indefinite time before the creative days began. And they make that assertion with no Bible citation. No article (apparently) at JW.org attempts to reconcile the conflict between those verses and the WT teaching. Maybe they're hoping none of you would notice.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Jan 27, 2021 22:52:58 GMT
No, that's not what I think. Do you find it easier to imagine what I think and deal with that instead of dealing with what I say?I didn't say a JW risks getting disfellowshipped (along with the shunning that follows) for disagreeing. They run that risk for an action, the action of promoting in their congregation the idea that the Watchtower is wrong in prohibiting birthday parties. They risk being found to be spreading false teaching. And a JW can be disfellowshipped for that action.And, given that risk of shunning, that's the part that's not silly. (Just as an example for comparison, a Catholic can promote within their congregation the idea that the Vatican's prohibition on birth control is wrong without fear of excommunication.) Yes, we try to follow Jehovah's Word. Part of that, is Hebrews 13:17 "Be obedient to (who?) those who are TAKING THE LEAD AMONG YOU, and BE SUBMISSIVE....." Such an attitude is not popular in this current System. It's quite obvious. It is laudable of you to “try to follow Jehovah’s Word”. Your implication is that you follow the New World Translation literally and we should also. Do you follow Jehovah’s Word in Exodus 31:15 “… Anyone doing work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.” No? Why not? How do you choose which “Words” to follow and which to ignore, or do you let eight men in Warwick, New York, choose for you?
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on Jan 29, 2021 21:20:42 GMT
What are Jehovas a witness too? Jehova
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Post by looking4klingons on Oct 6, 2023 5:53:15 GMT
Yes, we try to follow Jehovah's Word. Part of that, is Hebrews 13:17 "Be obedient to (who?) those who are TAKING THE LEAD AMONG YOU, and BE SUBMISSIVE....." Such an attitude is not popular in this current System. It's quite obvious. It is laudable of you to “try to follow Jehovah’s Word”. Your implication is that you follow the New World Translation literally and we should also. Do you follow Jehovah’s Word in Exodus 31:15 “… Anyone doing work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.” No? Why not? How do you choose which “Words” to follow and which to ignore, or do you let eight men in Warwick, New York, choose for you? Sorry, I’ve been gone a long time! Why should Christians follow the Mosaic Law (which was for Israelites)? You should be informed that Acts 15 gave the answer to that, if whether Christians should adhere to the Mosaic Law or not. I’ll overlook your snide comment. But If you can’t be civil, without dripping disdain, then please don’t reply. I hope you gained some knowledge from my reply.
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Post by looking4klingons on Oct 6, 2023 5:53:48 GMT
Yes, we try to follow Jehovah's Word. Part of that, is Hebrews 13:17 "Be obedient to (who?) those who are TAKING THE LEAD AMONG YOU, and BE SUBMISSIVE....." Such an attitude is not popular in this current System. It's quite obvious. It is laudable of you to “try to follow Jehovah’s Word”. Your implication is that you follow the New World Translation literally and we should also. Do you follow Jehovah’s Word in Exodus 31:15 “… Anyone doing work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.” No? Why not? How do you choose which “Words” to follow and which to ignore, or do you let eight men in Warwick, New York, choose for you? Sorry, I’ve been gone a long time! Why should Christians follow the Mosaic Law (which was for Israelites)? You should be informed that Acts 15 gave the answer to that, if whether Christians should adhere to the Mosaic Law or not. I’ll overlook your snide comment. But If you can’t be civil, without dripping disdain, then please don’t reply. I hope you gained some knowledge from my response.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Oct 7, 2023 18:55:49 GMT
Sorry, I’ve been gone a long time! Why should Christians follow the Mosaic Law (which was for Israelites)? You should be informed that Acts 15 gave the answer to that, if whether Christians should adhere to the Mosaic Law or not. I’ll overlook your snide comment. But If you can’t be civil, without dripping disdain, then please don’t reply. I hope you gained some knowledge from my response. Christians should follow the Mosaic Law because it's part of the Bible that is in your church. Genesis is part of Mosaic Law. The Ten Commandments are part of the Mosaic Law. The great flood is part of Mosaic Law. By ignoring parts of the Mosaic Law, you are admitting that you cherry-pick what you want out of the Bible. You can't have it both ways; either adhere to the Old Testament in its entirety or remove it completely from your Holy Book. If you remove the Old Testament, please tell me what comes after, "In the beginning ...." If the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament, what makes you so sure that Jehovah will not change his mind again with the "Newer and Improved Testament" before you die. And what if the first sentence is, "Thou shall ignore all previous testaments"? Back when I went to church, I was taught that God is all-knowing, never-changing (Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8, & others), benevolent, and keeps a close eye on things. And that is what I believed until I stumbled upon the Atheist Experience ten years ago. That’s when I started to take a closer look at the Good Book. My pastor never mentioned that Yahweh endorsed slavery or that I should be put to death if I work on the Sabbath. I had just about the same experience as Randolph Churchill as told by amyghost a few days ago There's a funny story about the time the novelist Evelyn Waugh was bunking with Winston Churchill's son, Randolph, during their WWII service: Randolph, who'd never been introduced to religion at all during his childhood, and had never even picked up a bible, was regarded by Waugh (a staunch Catholic convert) as ripe for religious instruction. Waugh came to regret it; after pressing the Good Book on Churchill, he had to endure days of Churchill's laughing aloud at what he was reading, accompanied by frequent exclamations of "What a shit God is!" Religion isn't about belief. It's about power and the use of fear to impose one's will on others.
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Hnefahogg
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Post by Hnefahogg on Oct 8, 2023 9:08:56 GMT
Sorry, I’ve been gone a long time! Why should Christians follow the Mosaic Law (which was for Israelites)? You should be informed that Acts 15 gave the answer to that, if whether Christians should adhere to the Mosaic Law or not. I’ll overlook your snide comment. But If you can’t be civil, without dripping disdain, then please don’t reply. I hope you gained some knowledge from my response. Christians should follow the Mosaic Law because it's part of the Bible that is in your church. Genesis is part of Mosaic Law. The Ten Commandments are part of the Mosaic Law. The great flood is part of Mosaic Law. By ignoring parts of the Mosaic Law, you are admitting that you cherry-pick what you want out of the Bible. You can't have it both ways; either adhere to the Old Testament in its entirety or remove it completely from your Holy Book. If you remove the Old Testament, please tell me what comes after, "In the beginning ...." If the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament, what makes you so sure that Jehovah will not change his mind again with the "Newer and Improved Testament" before you die. And what if the first sentence is, "Thou shall ignore all previous testaments"? Back when I went to church, I was taught that God is all-knowing, never-changing (Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8, & others), benevolent, and keeps a close eye on things. And that is what I believed until I stumbled upon the Atheist Experience ten years ago. That’s when I started to take a closer look at the Good Book. My pastor never mentioned that Yahweh endorsed slavery or that I should be put to death if I work on the Sabbath. I had just about the same experience as Randolph Churchill as told by amyghost a few days ago There's a funny story about the time the novelist Evelyn Waugh was bunking with Winston Churchill's son, Randolph, during their WWII service: Randolph, who'd never been introduced to religion at all during his childhood, and had never even picked up a bible, was regarded by Waugh (a staunch Catholic convert) as ripe for religious instruction. Waugh came to regret it; after pressing the Good Book on Churchill, he had to endure days of Churchill's laughing aloud at what he was reading, accompanied by frequent exclamations of "What a shit God is!" Religion isn't about belief. It's about power and the use of fear to impose one's will on others. US evangelicals do tend to say that Christians have to be circumcised. Christians in general don't believe that it's a requirement anymore since baptism, and Wretched's hero Martin Luther was not. I think US evangelicals do eat pork and don't keep kosher, though, so I guess that means they cherry-pick too and exclude things from the Mosaic Law. From my experience, it's more Catholics who might say the New Testament has superseded the Old Testament. While a Protestant is more likely to say that it is still in place but only applies to Israelites i.e. ethnic Jews, and that gentile Christians are not ethnically Jewish and thereby not bound to them.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Oct 10, 2023 22:24:51 GMT
Interestingly, the Jackson 5 recorded a Christmas album, even though they were JW. They may not have been baptized so as long as the mom wasn;t singing with them,it wouldn't matter. Does that mean that an unbaptized child will be allowed to stay in my daughter's class when a classmate brings a birthday cake to school? Of course not. You're just making an after-the-fact excuse for the Jackson five. Religion isn't about belief. It's about power. In this case, nine men (women aren't allowed) in Warwick control your life. To paraphrase James Randi, "They are the sheep who beg to be fleeced and butchered, and who will battle fiercely to preserve their right to be victimized.”
And I wonder what Anthony Morris is doing now and why he is no longer in Warwick.
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