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Post by geode on May 13, 2017 11:41:34 GMT
The critics of both of them claim that neither is really true to being a Christian as claimed.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 12:24:54 GMT
How could you really know?
If I had to guess, I'd say Obama. He strikes me as a "normal" christian, i.e. the type who believes but doesn't feel the need to run around pounding his bible in public and bragging about how religious he is. He also doesn't seem to subscribe to the US christian version of religion which consists of hating gays/trans people/left wing people/anybody who isn't you.
Trump strikes me as somebody who never gave any thought to religion until it occurred to him that he could get votes by talking about it. I very much doubt he could really be religious, because it would mean believing in somebody who was better than he is.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 13, 2017 13:06:35 GMT
The critics of both of them claim that neither is really true to being a Christian as claimed. Their critics are not very religious either, however much they think they are. Washington D.C. is not the center of much except politics. There aren't many pilgrimages to Washington D.C. at all. Athletic teams based in Washington haven't been exceptional. The Washington Redskins haven't won a Superbowl in over twenty years. They are currently criticized for having a troublesome use of a name. Washington D. C. is not the center of the arts some other cities are. The Virginia Museum of Fine Arts has a better collection of art than the National Gallery. Washington D.C. is a center for politics, but many wish it were not even that. Many people prefer more local politics. The political focus of the city probably has an adverse effect on other interests there. Neither Trump nor Obama are theologians by any measure, nor do they reflect the ideals of "deeper" (to use your term) religion. What they do reflect is the population on the whole, which is not deeply religious either. Obama reflects the views of Christian atheism. Trump reflects the views of military atheism (if anything). The Republican Party has been struggling to develop a new identity. However the struggle is largely based on a very small number of them who have considerably more tradition, religious and political, and more education than readily found in the party on the whole. The struggle will have to continue. The uprising of that small number helped in some accidental way to give Trump the victory. He is not really the leader of it. He was a real estate mogul. Now he is a politician. He is not a leader of much else.
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Post by captainbryce on May 13, 2017 14:01:21 GMT
How could you really know? If I had to guess, I'd say Obama. He strikes me as a "normal" christian, i.e. the type who believes but doesn't feel the need to run around pounding his bible in public and bragging about how religious he is. He also doesn't seem to subscribe to the US christian version of religion which consists of hating gays/trans people/left wing people/anybody who isn't you. Trump strikes me as somebody who never gave any thought to religion until it occurred to him that he could get votes by talking about it. I very much doubt he could really be religious, because it would mean believing in somebody who was better than he is. This.
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Post by thefleetsin on May 13, 2017 14:16:30 GMT
who is more deluded into thinking that either one truly cares about faith in the first place? you or the american public?
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dawglf
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Post by dawglf on May 13, 2017 14:23:48 GMT
"US christian version of religion which consists of hating gays/trans people/left wing people/anybody who isn't you."
Wow, that's a broad generalization that's not even close to being true.
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Post by lowtacks86 on May 13, 2017 14:40:06 GMT
I'd say they're "casual Christians" at most (see Christianity more as a label than any deep seated spiritual beliefs). Obviously this is particularly useful when engaging in American politics, except for more liberal regions, it's very difficult for non-Christians/nondenominationalists/atheists/etc to get elected. Sanders came close, though he pretty much avoided labelling himself the "a word".
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Post by geode on May 13, 2017 15:31:13 GMT
I'd say they're "casual Christians" at most (see Christianity more as a label than any deep seated spiritual beliefs). Obviously this is particularly useful when engaging in American politics, except for more liberal regions, it's very difficult for non-Christians/nondenominationalists/atheists/etc to get elected. Sanders came close, though he pretty much avoided labelling himself the "a word". I have run into people that question whether either Trump or Obama are Christians. I would agree that both have wished to be seen as at least some sort of Christian for political purposes, but do either of them have faith in any of the usual aspects of what it usually means to be one? Yes, Bernie stayed as clear of being identified with religion as almost any presidential continent in memory. Personally I don't care if a political leader is part of a religion or not, whatever that religion might be.
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Post by Jillian on May 13, 2017 15:34:57 GMT
Obama, because he is wise and sensible. I don´t know about religious, that does not matter- but he has got and has shown faith in humanity, integrity and trying to do the right thing.
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Post by geode on May 13, 2017 15:44:48 GMT
Obama, because he is wise and sensible. I don´t know about religious, that does not matter- but he has got and has shown faith in humanity, integrity and trying to do the right thing. I think I would agree that Obama has better values as you have indicated. I think he is what I would call definitely more spiritual than Trump because of his beliefs in this regard.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 16:09:51 GMT
I doubt either of them are really religious in any way.
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Post by drystyx on May 13, 2017 16:39:08 GMT
From what we see, it certainly appears Obama has a deeper Christian faith, and applies true values and lessons from Jesus. Trump has totally gone against Jesus in everything he says. He claims that some people are demi gods, while Obama is the opposite. There's the key. There's no way Trump, nor any Republican leader I've ever heard of, is a Christian. You can't deny health care and life to those not in your clique and be Christian. It can't be done, by definition.
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 13, 2017 17:23:41 GMT
They're both too smart to be seriously religious.
They're religious just so far as they need to be to appeal to the real religious people.
Good thing for them real religious people are gullible as hell so they can never tell how not into religion they really are.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 13, 2017 17:46:56 GMT
They're both too smart to be seriously religious. They're religious just so far as they need to be to appeal to the real religious people. Good thing for them real religious people are gullible as hell so they can never tell how not into religion they really are. There is a big difference between being smart and what large numbers of people think is smart. It's a big mistake to think people who aren't religious are any less gullible thereby.
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Post by blade on May 13, 2017 17:49:44 GMT
"US christian version of religion which consists of hating gays/trans people/left wing people/anybody who isn't you." Wow, that's a broad generalization that's not even close to being true.Truth.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 20:03:51 GMT
"US christian version of religion which consists of hating gays/trans people/left wing people/anybody who isn't you." Wow, that's a broad generalization that's not even close to being true.Truth. You are evidence of the truth of the statement.
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blade
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Post by blade on May 13, 2017 20:06:23 GMT
You are evidence of the truth of the statement. I dont hate anyone let alone gay or trans people. Is that the best you can do is assign me a position I dont hold?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on May 13, 2017 20:15:50 GMT
Who, not which.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 20:17:54 GMT
You are evidence of the truth of the statement. I dont hate anyone let alone gay or trans people. Is that the best you can do is assign me a position I dont hold? Yes you do.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on May 13, 2017 20:19:58 GMT
I dont hate anyone let alone gay or trans people. Is that the best you can do is assign me a position I dont hold? Yes you do. No, he doesn't, you horse's ass.
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