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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 22, 2022 17:16:57 GMT
I haven't seen the movie in a while, but apparently they were the "bad guys" because they were hungry and would kill animals for food? Well so do the lions, so I don't see how they're the morally superior ones. You could even make an argument from a utilitarian standpoint that the hyenas are less terrible in that regard (at least they're willing to eat animals that are already dead, lions only eat living game). Which is why I guess Simba becomes an insectovore, that's the only way he could be seen as sympathetic (hard to root for someone that's mauling a boar and lemur to death).
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Post by kolchak92 on Jun 22, 2022 19:31:08 GMT
They seemed too stupid to me to be necessarily "bad".
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 22, 2022 19:50:39 GMT
Well, the hyenas do seem to enjoy taunting their prey, and they have no qualms about conspiring with Scar to murder Mufasa and Simba.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 22, 2022 19:52:08 GMT
Well, the hyenas do seem to enjoy taunting their prey, and they have no qualms about conspiring with Scar to murder Mufasa and Simba. Yeah but the lions have no qualms about murdering (and then eating) other animals as well. So how are they the morally superior ones?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 22, 2022 19:53:59 GMT
Well, the hyenas do seem to enjoy taunting their prey, and they have no qualms about conspiring with Scar to murder Mufasa and Simba. Yeah but the lions have no qualms about murdering (and then eating) other animals as well. So how are they the morally superior ones? I guess because the hyenas are bigger dicks about it, and were willing to take part in a coup.
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Post by moviemouth on Jun 22, 2022 21:06:41 GMT
Well, the hyenas do seem to enjoy taunting their prey, and they have no qualms about conspiring with Scar to murder Mufasa and Simba. Yeah but the lions have no qualms about murdering (and then eating) other animals as well. So how are they the morally superior ones? The hyenas and scar don't just kill to eat. That is the difference. Are you a vegan? The most unrealistic aspect of The Lion King is that Simba is able to survive by eating just insects and fruit. Lions didn't evolve to be able to survive without eating meat.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 22, 2022 22:37:37 GMT
Yeah but the lions have no qualms about murdering (and then eating) other animals as well. So how are they the morally superior ones? The hyenas and scar don't just kill to eat. That is the difference. Are you a vegan? The most unrealistic aspect of The Lion King is that Simba is able to survive by eating just insects and fruit. Lions didn't evolve to be able to survive without eating meat. Honestly, if Simba was able to survive on an insect based diet, and as far as we can tell, insects in the Lion King universe seem to be non-sentient, that kind of begs the question of why the lions need to eat zebras and antelopes. Why commit murder if there’s a clear alternative? |
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Post by moviemouth on Jun 22, 2022 22:39:29 GMT
The hyenas and scar don't just kill to eat. That is the difference. Are you a vegan? The most unrealistic aspect of The Lion King is that Simba is able to survive by eating just insects and fruit. Lions didn't evolve to be able to survive without eating meat. Honestly, if Simba was able to survive on an insect based diet, and as far as we can tell, insects in the Lion King universe seem to be non-sentient, that kind of begs the question of why the lions need to eat zebras and antelopes. Why commit murder if there’s a clear alternative? It can be argued that the lions don't know they can survive on insects. Simba only knows that because of Timone and Pumba. It would have never occurred to Simba to eat insects otherwise. You are misusing the term murder btw. That is a legal term that only applies to humans unlawfully killing other humans. It doesn't apply to humans killing other species of animals.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 22, 2022 22:45:15 GMT
The lions shit out the animals they eat, it becomes grass and other animals eat it. I guess hyenas don't shit.
Also, the lions are blonde and the hyenas are mixed ethnic minorities from the ghetto side.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 22, 2022 22:46:31 GMT
Honestly, if Simba was able to survive on an insect based diet, and as far as we can tell, insects in the Lion King universe seem to be non-sentient, that kind of begs the question of why the lions need to eat zebras and antelopes. Why commit murder if there’s a clear alternative? It can be argued that the lions don't know they can survive on insects. Simba only knows that because of Timone and Pumba. It would have never occurred to Simba to eat insects otherwise. You are misusing the term murder btw. That is a legal term that only applies to humans unlawfully killing other humans. It doesn't apply to humans killing other species of animals. If you kill another clearly sentient creature, I’d consider that murder. The reason humans killing other humans is seen as worse than killing animals is because humans possess a level of sapience that other species don’t have. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 22, 2022 22:50:24 GMT
Yeah but the lions have no qualms about murdering (and then eating) other animals as well. So how are they the morally superior ones? The hyenas and scar don't just kill to eat. That is the difference. Are you a vegan? The most unrealistic aspect of The Lion King is that Simba is able to survive by eating just insects and fruit. Lions didn't evolve to be able to survive without eating meat. "Are you a vegan?" No, but since the animals in the Lion King universe seem to have the same intelligence as humans, then this would go beyond the morality of veganism. Were now talking about actual fully sentient intelligent beings that can communicate like humans. If in this universe animals are the same intelligence as humans, than you can't really justify animals eating one another could you? Otherwise you would have to be ok with humans killing and eating one another (what would be the actual difference the two in these scenarios?)
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 22, 2022 22:52:09 GMT
Honestly, if Simba was able to survive on an insect based diet, and as far as we can tell, insects in the Lion King universe seem to be non-sentient, that kind of begs the question of why the lions need to eat zebras and antelopes. Why commit murder if there’s a clear alternative? It can be argued that the lions don't know they can survive on insects. Simba only knows that because of Timone and Pumba. It would have never occurred to Simba to eat insects otherwise. You are misusing the term murder btw. That is a legal term that only applies to humans unlawfully killing other humans. It doesn't apply to humans killing other species of animals. What if it was an animal with the intelligence of a human being? (as the animals in Lion King clearly are).
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Post by moviemouth on Jun 22, 2022 23:00:11 GMT
It can be argued that the lions don't know they can survive on insects. Simba only knows that because of Timone and Pumba. It would have never occurred to Simba to eat insects otherwise. You are misusing the term murder btw. That is a legal term that only applies to humans unlawfully killing other humans. It doesn't apply to humans killing other species of animals. What if it was an animal with the intelligence of a human being? (as the animals in Lion King clearly are). That would be up to the law. I find it likely that if we discovered animals were as self-aware and as intelligent as humans it would be illegal to kill them for no reason though. It would depend on the species. There are reasons why we only eat certain species of animals and that is in how we perceive their level of sentience. This is why almost nobody has a problem with killing insects, even though they are technically sentient. Most humans have a moral issue with killing and eating apes for food. Medical advances require experimenting on other species to make certain scientific breakthroughs, so there would still be animals we used for this purpose regardless if they were as intelligent as humans. It is just the realityof the situation. We as humans are much more invested in human well-being than the well-being of other species.
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Post by moviemouth on Jun 22, 2022 23:05:45 GMT
The hyenas and scar don't just kill to eat. That is the difference. Are you a vegan? The most unrealistic aspect of The Lion King is that Simba is able to survive by eating just insects and fruit. Lions didn't evolve to be able to survive without eating meat. "Are you a vegan?" No, but since the animals in the Lion King universe seem to have the same intelligence as humans, then this would go beyond the morality of veganism. Were now talking about actual fully sentient intelligent beings that can communicate like humans. If in this universe animals are the same intelligence as humans, than you can't really justify animals eating one another could you? Otherwise you would have to be ok with humans killing and eating one another (what would be the actual difference the two in these scenarios?) The Lion King breaks it's own rules when it comes to Timone and Pumba, so that makes it very difficult to discuss the matter when it comes to the movie. Mufasa's whole spiel is about the Circle of Life. Now the argument would be that he wasn't aware that they could survive by not hunting and killing other animals. That is part of the argument I am making in defense of the morality of the movie.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 22, 2022 23:08:51 GMT
Yeah but the lions have no qualms about murdering (and then eating) other animals as well. So how are they the morally superior ones? The hyenas and scar don't just kill to eat. That is the difference. Are you a vegan? The most unrealistic aspect of The Lion King is that Simba is able to survive by eating just insects and fruit. Lions didn't evolve to be able to survive without eating meat. I always thought the most unrealistic aspect were the talking animals.
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Post by moviemouth on Jun 22, 2022 23:08:56 GMT
It can be argued that the lions don't know they can survive on insects. Simba only knows that because of Timone and Pumba. It would have never occurred to Simba to eat insects otherwise. You are misusing the term murder btw. That is a legal term that only applies to humans unlawfully killing other humans. It doesn't apply to humans killing other species of animals. If you kill another clearly sentient creature, I’d consider that murder. The reason humans killing other humans is seen as worse than killing animals is because humans possess a level of sapience that other species don’t have. Sure, but that isn't the case now and we don't know if it would be the case. It probably would though, but murder still only applies to humans. It gets weird when talking about fictional scenarios. It still wouldn't be considered murder by the lions until after Simba realizes that lions can survive and thrive on eating only insects.
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Post by moviemouth on Jun 22, 2022 23:10:45 GMT
The hyenas and scar don't just kill to eat. That is the difference. Are you a vegan? The most unrealistic aspect of The Lion King is that Simba is able to survive by eating just insects and fruit. Lions didn't evolve to be able to survive without eating meat. I always thought the most unrealistic aspect were the talking animals. I was using a bit of hyperbole to make a point, though I would say they are almost equally as unrealistic for similar reasons.
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Post by moviemouth on Jun 22, 2022 23:15:28 GMT
It can be argued that the lions don't know they can survive on insects. Simba only knows that because of Timone and Pumba. It would have never occurred to Simba to eat insects otherwise. You are misusing the term murder btw. That is a legal term that only applies to humans unlawfully killing other humans. It doesn't apply to humans killing other species of animals. What if it was an animal with the intelligence of a human being? (as the animals in Lion King clearly are). I love talking about morality btw. It is one of the most fascinating subjects.
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Post by Winter_King on Jun 23, 2022 13:37:30 GMT
I haven't seen the movie in a while, but apparently they were the "bad guys" because they were hungry and would kill animals for food? Well so do the lions, so I don't see how they're the morally superior ones. You could even make an argument from a utilitarian standpoint that the hyenas are less terrible in that regard (at least they're willing to eat animals that are already dead, lions only eat living game). Which is why I guess Simba becomes an insectovore, that's the only way he could be seen as sympathetic (hard to root for someone that's mauling a boar and lemur to death). In reality the spotted hyena hunt almost as much as lions. And lions eat dead animals all the time. One can make the case that lions steal more kills from hyenas than the other way around.
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Post by Archelaus on Jun 25, 2022 0:15:12 GMT
Lions and hyenas are natural enemies and the movie plays on that idea. Mufasa's ban on the hyenas is left unexplained, but it can be implied that the hyenas don't respect the Circle of Life (which is the same lesson Mufasa tries to pass onto Simba). The hyenas do simply want food and Scar uses their need to gain power for himself. With Scar allowing the hyenas to roam free during his reign, the kingdom collapses in part because of their actions.
Arguably, yes, the hyenas are bad. They knowingly tried to kill a king's son and assisted in Mufasa's regicide. I don't know why they couldn't find some other savanna grasslands to find food. It's not like all of Africa is contained in the Pride Lands.
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