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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 30, 2023 13:12:11 GMT
I mean, if the Hulk had been portrayed more as the Mr Fixit type Grey Hulk right from the start, then maybe there'd be more to work with. Or the EMH version where he was still a more intelligent being as Green Hulk.
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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on Jan 30, 2023 18:05:05 GMT
Now the Hulk is just Professor Jolly Green Giant. Thanks Ruffalo brothers!
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Post by Skaathar on Jan 30, 2023 18:29:40 GMT
I hope so. The Russos got a lot right, but they did Hulk and Thor dirty. To be fair, Thor as of Infinity War was my favorite version of Thor. How the Russo's managed such a great version of him in one film then turned him into utter sh*t the next film I'll never understand. Then again, Taika did a similar shift from Ragnarok Thor to L&T Thor.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 30, 2023 18:45:41 GMT
I hope so. The Russos got a lot right, but they did Hulk and Thor dirty. To be fair, Thor as of Infinity War was my favorite version of Thor. How the Russo's managed such a great version of him in one film then turned him into utter sh*t the next film I'll never understand. Then again, Taika did a similar shift from Ragnarok Thor to L&T Thor. Yeah Endgame is what I was referring to. IW Thor was peak Thor for sure. Ragnarok was also very good, and then immediately went to hell in L&T. Amazing how these guys can get it so right and then so completely wrong.
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Post by kuatorises on Jan 30, 2023 23:51:21 GMT
Ragnarok Hulk was the best balance, imo. He had matured enough as Hulk that he wasn't a mindless rage monster and he could carry simple conversations,but he wasn't completely neutered like he was as Professor Hulk. I was hoping to see more of that Hulk. I don't have a problem with Ragnorak Hulk (at all), but the "balance" wasn't necessary. There was nothing wrong with him in A1 & 2. But I was fine with that version. Professor Hulk should have gone away when Thanos showed up on Earth.
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Post by kuatorises on Jan 30, 2023 23:56:38 GMT
To be fair, Thor as of Infinity War was my favorite version of Thor. How the Russo's managed such a great version of him in one film then turned him into utter sh*t the next film I'll never understand. Then again, Taika did a similar shift from Ragnarok Thor to L&T Thor. Yeah Endgame is what I was referring to. IW Thor was peak Thor for sure. Ragnarok was also very good, and then immediately went to hell in L&T. Amazing how these guys can get it so right and then so completely wrong. Thor was fine in Endgame too. He was still a beast when he snapped out of his depression and it came time to fight. He was still the strongest Avenger. It's criminal Hulk wasn't right there with the main 3.
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Post by scabab on Jan 31, 2023 0:26:36 GMT
Hulk as a mindless Ragebeast has run his course, there's no real point to him anymore. Banner getting to where he is...it's called character development. Yeah but his character has become worse and far more unpopular because of it.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 31, 2023 13:29:38 GMT
Hulk as a mindless Ragebeast has run his course, there's no real point to him anymore. Banner getting to where he is...it's called character development. Yeah but his character has become worse and far more unpopular because of it. Because "fans" are allergic to character development.
Probably the same people who get made whenever Peter Parker is allowed to be more than a Photographer.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 31, 2023 13:39:49 GMT
Yeah Endgame is what I was referring to. IW Thor was peak Thor for sure. Ragnarok was also very good, and then immediately went to hell in L&T. Amazing how these guys can get it so right and then so completely wrong. Thor was fine in Endgame too. He was still a beast when he snapped out of his depression and it came time to fight. He was still the strongest Avenger. It's criminal Hulk wasn't right there with the main 3. Not really. He overpowered the gauntlet singlehandedly in IW, yet Thanos with only a couple of stones was throwing Thor around like a ragdoll in Endgame. He'd be dead if not for Cap. But mostly, I just hate that they turned him into a sniveling slob, yelling at kids playing video games online. I like the PTSD element to his story, but the comedy that came with it didn't really work for me. And Hulk absolutely needed a rematch with Thanos. The snap was important, it's not like he did nothing, but he deserved one more showdown with the big bad.
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Post by scabab on Jan 31, 2023 14:26:11 GMT
Yeah but his character has become worse and far more unpopular because of it. Because "fans" are allergic to character development.
Probably the same people who get made whenever Peter Parker is allowed to be more than a Photographer.
I don't think people mind characters developing they just don't like what was done with Hulk. I suppose the angry Hulk Smash routine gets old after awhile but Hulk was very popular initially. He was considered one of the highlights of the first Avengers movie. Fair enough they wanted to change the character into this Professor Hulk now and it is different but people aren't keen on it. He was meant to be the strongest there is, which he was at first but now there's loads stronger than him to the point he don't serve much purpose. They need to bring back the Hulk everyone likes. They need to World War Hulk him.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 31, 2023 15:36:53 GMT
Because "fans" are allergic to character development.
Probably the same people who get made whenever Peter Parker is allowed to be more than a Photographer.
I don't think people mind characters developing they just don't like what was done with Hulk. I suppose the angry Hulk Smash routine gets old after awhile but Hulk was very popular initially. He was considered one of the highlights of the first Avengers movie. Fair enough they wanted to change the character into this Professor Hulk now and it is different but people aren't keen on it. He was meant to be the strongest there is, which he was at first but now there's loads stronger than him to the point he don't serve much purpose. They need to bring back the Hulk everyone likes. They need to World War Hulk him. But that Hulk has no future as a character.
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Post by kuatorises on Jan 31, 2023 15:39:29 GMT
Thor was fine in Endgame too. He was still a beast when he snapped out of his depression and it came time to fight. He was still the strongest Avenger. It's criminal Hulk wasn't right there with the main 3. Not really. He overpowered the gauntlet singlehandedly in IW, yet Thanos with only a couple of stones was throwing Thor around like a ragdoll in Endgame. He'd be dead if not for Cap. But mostly, I just hate that they turned him into a sniveling slob, yelling at kids playing video games online. I like the PTSD element to his story, but the comedy that came with it didn't really work for me. And Hulk absolutely needed a rematch with Thanos. The snap was important, it's not like he did nothing, but he deserved one more showdown with the big bad. He caught Thanos off-guard with an attack from fairly far away (not a hand-to-hand attack) and quickly followed it up with another. He hits Thanos with lightning. Knocks him down. Throws the hammer, which was built to kill a god (same dwarf as who made the gauntlet). It's not like he was out boxing him. He was also out of shape in Endgame. It's not like he laid waste to Thanos in IW and did a 180 in Endgame.
Agreed. Snapping the gauntlet is not equivalent to a fight. Kind of embarrassing the Russos thought that was sufficient. Here's hoping for WWH.
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Post by kuatorises on Jan 31, 2023 15:40:15 GMT
I don't think people mind characters developing they just don't like what was done with Hulk. I suppose the angry Hulk Smash routine gets old after awhile but Hulk was very popular initially. He was considered one of the highlights of the first Avengers movie. Fair enough they wanted to change the character into this Professor Hulk now and it is different but people aren't keen on it. He was meant to be the strongest there is, which he was at first but now there's loads stronger than him to the point he don't serve much purpose. They need to bring back the Hulk everyone likes. They need to World War Hulk him. But that Hulk has no future as a character.Been an ongoing comic since 1962.
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Post by scabab on Jan 31, 2023 17:26:03 GMT
I don't think people mind characters developing they just don't like what was done with Hulk. I suppose the angry Hulk Smash routine gets old after awhile but Hulk was very popular initially. He was considered one of the highlights of the first Avengers movie. Fair enough they wanted to change the character into this Professor Hulk now and it is different but people aren't keen on it. He was meant to be the strongest there is, which he was at first but now there's loads stronger than him to the point he don't serve much purpose. They need to bring back the Hulk everyone likes. They need to World War Hulk him. But that Hulk has no future as a character. Which? The angry Hulk Smash version of the character? Like I said they could have just done their version of World War Hulk. Made him the strongest and most dangerous version of himself while being an antagonist. It could have still worked and still been development for him because WWH Hulk could still talk and had a degree of intelligence about him. Whereas now instead they've practically blurred the line between Hulk and Bruce Banner which has meant that Hulk has been greatly nerfed when him being one of the strongest around is meant to be his thing.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 31, 2023 19:48:44 GMT
I don't think people mind characters developing they just don't like what was done with Hulk. I suppose the angry Hulk Smash routine gets old after awhile but Hulk was very popular initially. He was considered one of the highlights of the first Avengers movie. Fair enough they wanted to change the character into this Professor Hulk now and it is different but people aren't keen on it. He was meant to be the strongest there is, which he was at first but now there's loads stronger than him to the point he don't serve much purpose. They need to bring back the Hulk everyone likes. They need to World War Hulk him. But that Hulk has no future as a character. Thor without his hammer might be character development. Captain America without his shield might be character development. But long term it devalues those characters as superheroes. And that’s the primary point of the character. The character development that you keep proposing - the Hulk being this zen-like professor with watered down strength and very vulnerable to things like fear and cowardice - it makes him the antithesis of his own superhero identity! Do this with every superhero character and eventually nobody is watching any more. Or the characters are forced to be permanently phased out as part of their “character development”. Yeah you’re argument has a weak foundation and (long term) doesn’t make much sense.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 31, 2023 20:40:54 GMT
But that Hulk has no future as a character. Been an ongoing comic since 1962. An ongoing series where he frequently is NOT a mindless Ragebeast.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 31, 2023 20:42:56 GMT
But that Hulk has no future as a character. Thor without his hammer might be character development. Captain America without his shield might be character development. But long term it devalues those characters as superheroes. And that’s the primary point of the character. The character development that you keep proposing - the Hulk being this zen-like professor with watered down strength and very vulnerable to things like fear and cowardice - it makes him the antithesis of his own superhero identity! Do this with every superhero character and eventually nobody is watching any more. Or the characters are forced to be permanently phased out as part of their “character development”. Yeah you’re argument has a weak foundation and (long term) doesn’t make much sense. Thor is more than his Hammer, the Hammer is just a tool. Some of Caps BEST stories were when he wasn't Captain America anymore. It's what's in their characters that make them good, not their superficial trappings.
Hulk doesn't have to be the Professor, he just can't be a Ragebeast all the time.
I wouldn't mind it if more of them were retired and phased out with new ones taking over. I think Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent should've been replaced 60 years ago.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 31, 2023 20:43:47 GMT
But that Hulk has no future as a character. Which? The angry Hulk Smash version of the character? Yes, there's a reason why the comics keep changing him out of that characterization as often as he's put back into it.
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Post by kuatorises on Jan 31, 2023 20:55:27 GMT
Been an ongoing comic since 1962. An ongoing series where he frequently is NOT a mindless Ragebeast.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 31, 2023 22:31:44 GMT
Thor without his hammer might be character development. Captain America without his shield might be character development. But long term it devalues those characters as superheroes. And that’s the primary point of the character. The character development that you keep proposing - the Hulk being this zen-like professor with watered down strength and very vulnerable to things like fear and cowardice - it makes him the antithesis of his own superhero identity! Do this with every superhero character and eventually nobody is watching any more. Or the characters are forced to be permanently phased out as part of their “character development”. Yeah you’re argument has a weak foundation and (long term) doesn’t make much sense. Thor is more than his Hammer, the Hammer is just a tool. Some of Caps BEST stories were when he wasn't Captain America anymore. It's what's in their characters that make them good, not their superficial trappings. Some of that is okay between stories like Iron Man battling his alcoholism as a side story (comics). But that should not be the entire essence and development of the character. And don’t know what you’re talking about when you say Caps best stories were when he wasn’t Cap. Can’t say that I agree. Superheroes not being superheroes is why they have soap operas and crime dramas. [/div][/quote] It sounds like you’re suggesting he can’t be rage beast at all in any capacity. Phase out Batman (Wayne) and Superman (Kent) 60 years ago! That would’ve been artistic and financial suicide! If the MCU did story and character development the way you’re suggesting the franchise would be out of business!
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