|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 31, 2023 23:04:19 GMT
Waxer-n-boil Agree with this 100%. The worst superhero stories are the ones where they lose their powers. You're taking away a key component of the character. It's your problem if you can't come up with a compelling story for the character, be a better writer. If you have to strip them of their powers to reveal their humanity, you clearly don't know what made the character interesting in the first place. Regarding Hulk, his rage is completely different from Mjolnir or Cap's shield, the comparison makes no sense. A better comparison would be trying to imagine Thor or Cap with a completely different personality, and slightly depowered to boot. I don't hate the smart Hulk of Endgame, but he's not nearly as much fun as the rage monster. Ironically, it seems like the end of the first Avengers film was when Banner had the most control of Hulk. He transformed at will and one-shotted a space whale. Give me that guy. Have the character of Banner take a slightly darker turn and come to grips with his anger, channeling it into the Hulk instead of becoming a prisoner to it. Hell, I wouldn't necessarily object to him still being somewhat intelligent, just with a bit more of an edge than regular Banner.
|
|
|
Post by scabab on Feb 1, 2023 0:39:35 GMT
Which? The angry Hulk Smash version of the character? Yes, there's a reason why the comics keep changing him out of that characterization as often as he's put back into it. Probably because it gets old after 60 years of monthly comics. It ain't really such an issue in a series of movies that come out every 3 or 4 years where Hulk is a supporting character at that. Outside of a one minute fight with Thanos at the start of Infinity War, Hulk hasn't really been involved with the action since 2017 by now. People don't really want to see Hulk fiddle around with buttons on a computer yapping.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Feb 1, 2023 2:38:33 GMT
An ongoing series where he frequently is NOT a mindless Ragebeast. He's been Mr Fixit, he's been Professor Hulk, he's been Gladiator Hulk. Plenty of times he's not a Ragebeast who can't even speak.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Feb 1, 2023 2:41:02 GMT
Thor is more than his Hammer, the Hammer is just a tool. Some of Caps BEST stories were when he wasn't Captain America anymore. It's what's in their characters that make them good, not their superficial trappings. Some of that is okay between stories like Iron Man battling his alcoholism as a side story (comics). But that should not be the entire essence and development of the character. And don’t know what you’re talking about when you say Caps best stories were when he wasn’t Cap. Can’t say that I agree. Superheroes not being superheroes is why they have soap operas and crime dramas. [/div][/quote] It sounds like you’re suggesting he can’t be rage beast at all in any capacity. Phase out Batman (Wayne) and Superman (Kent) 60 years ago! That would’ve been artistic and financial suicide! If the MCU did story and character development the way you’re suggesting the franchise would be out of business! [/quote][/div]
When Cap had stories when he was Nomad or the Captain, those were some of his best tales.
I'm saying that Hulk has alternated between Mr Fixit, Professor Hulk, Gladiator Hulk and Ragebeat. He's never JUST been the Ragebeast.
Not phase out Superman and Batman, phase out Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne.
Just like how Carter Hall was replaced by Katar Hol as Hawkman, Jay Garrick was replaced by Barry Allen and Alan Scott was replaced by Hal Jordan. Bruce Wayne should have been replaced by someone else as Batman in the 60s (Dick Grayson preferably) and someone else become Superman in Clark Kent's place.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Feb 1, 2023 2:45:47 GMT
Yes, there's a reason why the comics keep changing him out of that characterization as often as he's put back into it. Probably because it gets old after 60 years of monthly comics. It ain't really such an issue in a series of movies that come out every 3 or 4 years where Hulk is a supporting character at that. Outside of a one minute fight with Thanos at the start of Infinity War, Hulk hasn't really been involved with the action since 2017 by now. People don't really want to see Hulk fiddle around with buttons on a computer yapping. I mean, every other character has undergone some kind of development. Seeing Hulk stay the same the entire time would be a bit silly.
Admittedly, they could have avoided this by making Hulk more sentient earlier on. Like, in AOU he should've been able to talk more and act like his own character.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2023 3:37:28 GMT
They should’ve continued what they did with him in Ragnorock. Still a separate personality. Still angry and savage, but also able to talk and think. They just blasted past that phase of Hulk’s evolution.
|
|
|
Post by politicidal on Feb 1, 2023 4:55:58 GMT
They should’ve continued what they did with him in Ragnorock. Still a separate personality. Still angry and savage, but also able to talk and think. They just blasted past that phase of Hulk’s evolution. This. Very strange decision if Ruffalo didn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon.
|
|
|
Post by kuatorises on Feb 2, 2023 21:25:40 GMT
They should’ve continued what they did with him in Ragnorock. Still a separate personality. Still angry and savage, but also able to talk and think. They just blasted past that phase of Hulk’s evolution. He didn't need to change from A1 and AoU to his Ragnorak persona, but it was not a huge change and worked fine. More of that over what we've gotten since. Easily better than Pansy Hulk.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Feb 2, 2023 22:02:32 GMT
They should’ve continued what they did with him in Ragnorock. Still a separate personality. Still angry and savage, but also able to talk and think. They just blasted past that phase of Hulk’s evolution. He didn't need to change from A1 and AoU to his Ragnorak persona, but it was not a huge change and worked fine. More of that over what we've gotten since. Easily better than Pansy Hulk. Yes, he did need to change. It's called character development.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 22:55:44 GMT
He didn't need to change from A1 and AoU to his Ragnorak persona, but it was not a huge change and worked fine. More of that over what we've gotten since. Easily better than Pansy Hulk. Yes, he did need to change. It's called character development. I agree with the decision to evolve him (to a certain extent), but there wasn’t a lot of what I’d call character development. Change in and of itself is not character development. I didn’t see Bruce actually changing all that much on screen. Physical change? Yes. But nothing deeper than that. How did he overcome his anger? Why did he suddenly decide to merge with Hulk? It’s all quite thin.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Feb 3, 2023 0:03:21 GMT
Yes, he did need to change. It's called character development. I agree with the decision to evolve him (to a certain extent), but there wasn’t a lot of what I’d call character development. Change in and of itself is not character development. I didn’t see Bruce actually changing all that much on screen. Physical change? Yes. But nothing deeper than that. How did he overcome his anger? Why did he suddenly decide to merge with Hulk? It’s all quite thin. I was referring more to the Hulk going from mindless Ragebeast to the Gladiator Hulk we saw in Ragnarok. If he'd been portrayed more like Gladiator Hulk wherein he's able to talk and ACTUALLY interact with other characters rather than just snarl at them, it would've made it easier to keep that Hulk around longer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2023 1:16:13 GMT
I agree with the decision to evolve him (to a certain extent), but there wasn’t a lot of what I’d call character development. Change in and of itself is not character development. I didn’t see Bruce actually changing all that much on screen. Physical change? Yes. But nothing deeper than that. How did he overcome his anger? Why did he suddenly decide to merge with Hulk? It’s all quite thin. I was referring more to the Hulk going from mindless Ragebeast to the Gladiator Hulk we saw in Ragnarok. If he'd been portrayed more like Gladiator Hulk wherein he's able to talk and ACTUALLY interact with other characters rather than just snarl at them, it would've made it easier to keep that Hulk around longer. I was with them up until that point. And actually I don’t mind Smart Hulk as much as everyone else. But they definitely rushed it too fast from talking Hulk to Green Banner.
|
|
|
Post by kuatorises on Feb 3, 2023 1:20:34 GMT
I agree with the decision to evolve him (to a certain extent), but there wasn’t a lot of what I’d call character development. Change in and of itself is not character development. I didn’t see Bruce actually changing all that much on screen. Physical change? Yes. But nothing deeper than that. How did he overcome his anger? Why did he suddenly decide to merge with Hulk? It’s all quite thin. I was referring more to the Hulk going from mindless Ragebeast to the Gladiator Hulk we saw in Ragnarok. If he'd been portrayed more like Gladiator Hulk wherein he's able to talk and ACTUALLY interact with other characters rather than just snarl at them, it would've made it easier to keep that Hulk around longer. Real big difference that was.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Feb 3, 2023 15:48:33 GMT
I was referring more to the Hulk going from mindless Ragebeast to the Gladiator Hulk we saw in Ragnarok. If he'd been portrayed more like Gladiator Hulk wherein he's able to talk and ACTUALLY interact with other characters rather than just snarl at them, it would've made it easier to keep that Hulk around longer. Real big difference that was.
If they'd done more with Gladiator Hulk than 1 movie and had him interact with the other Avengers, it would've been.
Or if he'd become more like Gladiator Hulk in Age of Ultron.
This is how the EMH cartoon got Hulk to work, they always had him be able to talk and interact with people.
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Feb 4, 2023 16:06:43 GMT
Waxer-n-boil Agree with this 100%. The worst superhero stories are the ones where they lose their powers. Yep, it's why my fav Iron Man appearances are the Avengers films, where he's not sputtering about in the air with tech issues or whatever. There's simply no time within ensemble. Their personae having issues on the other hand, that's another thing which I love - Age of Ultron, having to confront their missions & raison d'etre is fascinating to me.
|
|
|
Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Feb 17, 2023 2:09:58 GMT
Hulk as a mindless Ragebeast has run his course, there's no real point to him anymore. Banner getting to where he is...it's called character development. Some of us fans of the 1970s/1980s live action TV show would disagree...
It ran for 5 years and had 3 TV Movies after that, all with the Hulk being a mindless Ragebeast, and it worked... and worked well.I loved "The Incredible Hulk" (2008), and the First Avengers film was good too... But it has been going downhill since... and I don't want to see anymore of the Banner/Hulk hybrid. Ever... And I am saying that as a long time fan of the character. The Banner/Hulk hybrid is the most idea they did in the MCU. Well, he wasn't a complete and utter mindless Ragebeast. He had his cute, childlike moments as well, something none of the later incarnations touched upon and a big reason why the Bixby/Ferrigno treatment of the character was unique.
|
|
|
Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Feb 17, 2023 2:11:06 GMT
Maybe the next phase of the Hulk is comedy movies, or better yet, a sitcom. OR BOTH!
PROFESSOR HULK!!!
|
|