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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 2, 2023 8:44:56 GMT
By the way is the Magneto scene considered to be "forced politics"?
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Post by charzhino on Mar 2, 2023 10:58:54 GMT
By the way is the Magneto scene considered to be "forced politics"? Not at all, thats a great scene delivered by a great actor. Its minimal, quick and powerful, not dragged out or overdramatically acted to beat the viewer over the head.
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Post by charzhino on Mar 2, 2023 11:17:34 GMT
And I keep getting reminded how unbearable the internet will be once the MCU does bring in the X-Men. From the Fox-Men who are still salty that it's over to the cancerous anti-sjw/woke people crying about "forced politics" in whatever Xmen movie or show we get. Abandon hope all ye who enter here... Feige has the reigns now. All he has to do is make a good X-men movie that isnt woke with silly, goofy, cringe humour and no one will complain. He has a high bar to overcome.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 2, 2023 13:29:55 GMT
The point is, it worked for Star-Lord and Bucky which shows it's not a bad thing and neither Pietro nor Wanda are terribly affected by the family relation being dropped either. Which means changes during adaptations are not a "Always wrong" game.
I was referring to the Chris Nolan Bane, actually. He changed a lot of things.
The X-Men changes were doing out of contempt for the source material, rather than pragmatism.
Catwoman was a camp villain in a camp series, not a mentally unstable secretary who wanted revenge on her boss like Burton did. Yet the Pfeiffer Catwoman is loved for the change.
Uh huh, like you said it went against the norm and is loved for it.
It is, making things as homogeneous as they were was a mistake. Now it's time to start correcting that mistake.
But I wasn't making the argument that change equates to being bad, you can still produce a bad adaptation of a work and still make something entertaining from it, however, you may end up creating a different impression of the property and character and eliminating potentially rich stories to tell from the source material if you cut out specific key elements. I have actually seen plenty of people complain about Christopher Nolan's take on Bane, in that he was a hired hand, didn't have venom, and wasn't easy to hear, for starters. Curious, but what is an example of something in an adaptation (I am not limiting it to the X-Men) that you consider as being contempt for the source material and what you believe is an example of pragmatism? Catwoman in the '66 series was mentally unstable, you would have to be to want to commit the kind of crimes she had and wanting to wear that outfit every minute of the day. I don't think Pfeiffer's Catwoman is loved necessarily because of the change in origin but more because of how well Pfeiffer performed in the role. I don't think it would be as popular a portrayal if another actress had played the part. There's no need to correct anything, the characters are fine as they are, and there are plenty of other characters in the Marvel universe who aren't white and do warrant their own movies and television series. You may, or you may just be updating flawed outdated source material. Look at how Bucky and Star-Lord were outright improved.
And even more loved him and were fine with all the changes, which shows even when its a big property like Batman these things work.
Making Bucky into Steve's Adult best friend is a pragmatic choice. Making Rogue into a constant weakling who couldn't even be an effective combatant with only her absorbing powers was a contemptuous choice.
Not the outright whackjob she was in Batman Returns. And Penguine wasn't a deformed mutant who wanted to kill kids either in 60s Batman.
Well we'll never know, but I never saw anyone complain about her changed origin and how she wasn't even a Cat Thief anymore but a vigilante herself.
Not enough of them, which is due to the mistake of making everything too homogeneous to start with. Time to correct that.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 2, 2023 13:30:51 GMT
By the way is the Magneto scene considered to be "forced politics"? Not at all, thats a great scene delivered by a great actor. Its minimal, quick and powerful, not dragged out or overdramatically acted to beat the viewer over the head. So double standards then.
And that opening scene in Auschwitz very much beats the viewer over the head.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 2, 2023 13:31:19 GMT
And I keep getting reminded how unbearable the internet will be once the MCU does bring in the X-Men. From the Fox-Men who are still salty that it's over to the cancerous anti-sjw/woke people crying about "forced politics" in whatever Xmen movie or show we get. Abandon hope all ye who enter here... Feige has the reigns now. All he has to do is make a good X-men movie that isnt woke with silly, goofy, cringe humour and no one will complain. He has a high bar to overcome. You use Boogeyman words like "Woke", you lose credibility.
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Post by charzhino on Mar 2, 2023 15:48:37 GMT
Not at all, thats a great scene delivered by a great actor. Its minimal, quick and powerful, not dragged out or overdramatically acted to beat the viewer over the head. So double standards then. And that opening scene in Auschwitz very much beats the viewer over the head.
No you just dont understand the difference in how political themes can be expressed on screen. The best directors can do it without making it obvious and eyerolling, in whatever genre of movie. MCU productions follow a basic formula, so everything needs to be explained in plain view.
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Post by charzhino on Mar 2, 2023 15:50:39 GMT
Feige has the reigns now. All he has to do is make a good X-men movie that isnt woke with silly, goofy, cringe humour and no one will complain. He has a high bar to overcome. You use Boogeyman words like "Woke", you lose credibility. No one ever accused Foxs X-men movies of being woke, because they weren't and handled themes in a balanced way. If MCU X-men goes the other way, and they get called out for it, then its no ones fault except Feige.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 2, 2023 15:52:46 GMT
And I keep getting reminded how unbearable the internet will be once the MCU does bring in the X-Men. From the Fox-Men who are still salty that it's over to the cancerous anti-sjw/woke people crying about "forced politics" in whatever Xmen movie or show we get. Abandon hope all ye who enter here... And if the MCU stays true to how the X-Men were depicted in TAS or comics, then you'll get SJW/woke people crying that there isn't enough diversity.
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Post by Cat on Mar 2, 2023 16:15:31 GMT
And I keep getting reminded how unbearable the internet will be once the MCU does bring in the X-Men. From the Fox-Men who are still salty that it's over to the cancerous anti-sjw/woke people crying about "forced politics" in whatever Xmen movie or show we get. Abandon hope all ye who enter here... And if the MCU stays true to how the X-Men were depicted in TAS or comics, then you'll get SJW/woke people crying that there isn't enough diversity. Were people complaining about not enough diversity for the animated series?
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 2, 2023 16:17:46 GMT
So double standards then. And that opening scene in Auschwitz very much beats the viewer over the head.
No you just dont understand the difference in how political themes can be expressed on screen. The best directors can do it without making it obvious and eyerolling, in whatever genre of movie. MCU productions follow a basic formula, so everything needs to be explained in plain view. The FoX-Men movies did do it obviously and eyerollingly. The MCU actually bothered giving us a sympathetic German character in WWII movie which you rarely ever see.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 2, 2023 16:18:30 GMT
You use Boogeyman words like "Woke", you lose credibility. No one ever accused Foxs X-men movies of being woke, because they weren't and handled themes in a balanced way. If MCU X-men goes the other way, and they get called out for it, then its no ones fault except Feige. No one accused them because those movies were 20 years ago, if they came out now they would be called "Woke".
Which doesn't change that it's a Boogeyman word.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 2, 2023 16:21:36 GMT
And if the MCU stays true to how the X-Men were depicted in TAS or comics, then you'll get SJW/woke people crying that there isn't enough diversity. Were people complaining about not enough diversity for the animated series? In 1992, no they weren't complaining because they were just happy to have a show at all. But aside from Storm, X-Men's never been that great with nonwhite characters.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 2, 2023 16:46:23 GMT
And if the MCU stays true to how the X-Men were depicted in TAS or comics, then you'll get SJW/woke people crying that there isn't enough diversity. Were people complaining about not enough diversity for the animated series? No, because that show was from the early 90's.
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Post by Cat on Mar 2, 2023 16:47:31 GMT
Were people complaining about not enough diversity for the animated series? No, because that show was from the early 90's. Well if they weren't complaining about it then why would they now?
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 2, 2023 16:55:20 GMT
And I keep getting reminded how unbearable the internet will be once the MCU does bring in the X-Men. From the Fox-Men who are still salty that it's over to the cancerous anti-sjw/woke people crying about "forced politics" in whatever Xmen movie or show we get. Abandon hope all ye who enter here... And if the MCU stays true to how the X-Men were depicted in TAS or comics, then you'll get SJW/woke people crying that there isn't enough diversity. The lineup and casting probably won't be "true" to the comics. I fully expect Marvel to do a modernized team and honestly that's probably for the best. There's a lot of Mutant characters that either haven't been fully explored or adapted for the screen. And it would be nice to see a new fresh cast of characters for once instead of getting Wolverine for the 20th time.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 2, 2023 17:01:40 GMT
No, because that show was from the early 90's. Well if they weren't complaining about it then why would they now? You're kidding right?
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Post by Cat on Mar 2, 2023 17:07:26 GMT
Well if they weren't complaining about it then why would they now? You're kidding right? Depends what you think I'm looking for. I'm not saying they won't or can't complain. I'm just asking why you think it's a given they'll complain when they already didn't once.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 2, 2023 17:10:58 GMT
And if the MCU stays true to how the X-Men were depicted in TAS or comics, then you'll get SJW/woke people crying that there isn't enough diversity. The lineup and casting probably won't be "true" to the comics. I fully expect Marvel to do a modernized team and honestly that's probably for the best. There's a lot of Mutant characters that either haven't been fully explored or adapted for the screen. And it would be nice to see a new fresh cast of characters for once instead of getting Wolverine for the 20th time. I'd be very happy with them including a bunch of lesser known mutants for diversity's sake. Make Storm leader of the X-Men, add Bishop and Forge and Warpath in there, give Jubilee a bigger role, heck add in Shatterstar. But what I'd hate to see is them race swapping or gender bending existing characters just for the sake of ticking off a diversity checkbox.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 2, 2023 17:17:15 GMT
Depends what you think I'm looking for. I'm not saying they won't or can't complain. I'm just asking why you think it's a given they'll complain when they already didn't once. Because the SJW/Woke ideology didn't exist back in the early 90's, or at least not in the same way it exists today. Audiences and especially companies did not feel pressured to hit a diversity quota for products back then. Shows with a pure white cast didn't get attacked the way they do nowadays. They certainly didn't face calls of cancellation and what not. Women could be used as sexual eye-candy in shows without complaints, gender roles were still acceptable, etc. The inverse is true as well. You didn't have organized mass communities of incels or red-pill trolls back then. There were no coordinated efforts of review bombing a product or doxxing people. Etc. Let's not pretend that the socio-political climate in the 90's is anywhere close to what it is at the moment.
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