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Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Mar 17, 2023 2:16:54 GMT
Did Jesus Christ command that He be worshipped anywhere in the Gospels or the rest of the New Testament?
Did He ever claim that He is the only Son of God and/or God Himself Incarnate in the flesh?
Did He say that He is the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament?
Was/Is the Messiah of the Old Testament meant to be the Lord and Savior of His people in terms of saving them from their sins?
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Post by clusium on Mar 17, 2023 2:22:55 GMT
Did Jesus Christ command that He be worshipped anywhere in the Gospels or the rest of the New Testament? Did He ever claim that He is the only Son of God and/or God Himself Incarnate in the flesh? Did He say that He is the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament? Was/Is the Messiah of the Old Testament meant to be the Lord and Saviour of His people in terms of saving them from their sins? Yes to all of these. |
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Post by Sarge on Mar 17, 2023 5:32:53 GMT
No, I don't think so. I can't remember any incident where he made someone worship him.
Jesus never claimed to be the son of God.
In Matthew he blesses Peter for calling him the Messiah, the Son of God. In Matthew, Jesus calls Peter his Rock on which he will build his church, a prophecy that didn't happen. In Mark, Jesus instructs them to keep it a secret. In other scripture he says his brother James will lead the Church.
No, he was meant to be a conqueror. That's why Jesus dying was problematic and why Christianity floundered until Paul brought it to the Gentiles and pagans.
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Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Mar 17, 2023 5:38:43 GMT
No, he was meant to be a conqueror. That's why Jesus dying was problematic and why Christianity floundered until Paul brought it to the Gentiles and pagans. Or was it just that the writers of the Old Testament got it wrong, as some Christians have preached and taught (that they didn't realize the Messiah was meant to be sacrificed for salvation and conquer death rather than be a literal conqueror of land and peoples)? |
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Post by Sarge on Mar 17, 2023 5:55:00 GMT
No, he was meant to be a conqueror. That's why Jesus dying was problematic and why Christianity floundered until Paul brought it to the Gentiles and pagans. Or was it just that the writers of the Old Testament got it wrong, as some Christians have preached and taught (that they didn't realize the Messiah was meant to be sacrificed for salvation and conquer death rather than be a literal conqueror of land and peoples)? Once you admit the Bible is wrong, everything goes out the window. Clearly the Old Testament was wrong, so was the New Testament. The question of who Jesus was and who he was believed to be is more complicated than most people realize. Biblical scholars debate it to this day. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 17, 2023 8:14:59 GMT
Anything Jesus said was not written down until decades after his death, so the early gospel writers were not interviewing many, if any, eye-witnesses, but what others were saying they remember after many years or secondhand accounts. Even Paul never directly quotes the messages he said he was getting from Jesus in heaven, usually during his dreams.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 17, 2023 8:23:30 GMT
No, he was meant to be a conqueror. That's why Jesus dying was problematic and why Christianity floundered until Paul brought it to the Gentiles and pagans. Or was it just that the writers of the Old Testament got it wrong, as some Christians have preached and taught (that they didn't realize the Messiah was meant to be sacrificed for salvation and conquer death rather than be a literal conqueror of land and peoples)?Christianity began among an unarmed, passive nation, established a place in a nation with a professionally army (like our own), and came to fruition among a myriad of tribal warrior nations where all the men were expected to go out and fight. So religious militarism was not a feature Jesus taught, it was an enculturation into Christianity from the outside. |
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djorno
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Post by djorno on Mar 17, 2023 23:50:11 GMT
Did Jesus Christ command that He be worshipped anywhere in the Gospels or the rest of the New Testament? He did indeed. How do believers honor the Father? By giving Him reverence, following his ways, praying to him and of course worshiping Him. Yep. Again yep. Absolutely. Why of course. |
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Post by Hnefahogg on Mar 18, 2023 10:16:51 GMT
Jesus never rebuked anyone who worshipped him, while there are instances in the Bible where angels and humans did.
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Post by Vegas on Mar 20, 2023 23:37:22 GMT
Did Jesus Christ command that He be worshipped anywhere in the Gospels or the rest of the New Testament? No. No. Yes. Yes. |
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Post by Vegas on Mar 21, 2023 0:12:44 GMT
Interesting to note: The variation of "prokuneo" (προσκυνήσαντες) only appears once in The Bible.... The earliest Latin translations did not translate this verse as "worship" - Earliest translators seeing this version of the word having more of a "obeisance" or "adoration" definition... and not actual "worship". Latin Vulgate Luke 24: 50-53 51 And it came to pass, whilst he blessed them, he departed from them, and was carried up to heaven. 52 And they adoring went back into Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they were always in the temple, prais-ing and blessing God. Amen. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 21, 2023 3:25:41 GMT
Did Jesus Christ command that He be worshipped anywhere in the Gospels or the rest of the New Testament? He did indeed. How do believers honor the Father? By giving Him reverence, following his ways, praying to him and of course worshiping Him. Yep. Again yep. Absolutely. Why of course. “For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.” John 5:22-23 Honoring someone is not worshipping them. People honor the Caesars and the Kings of England, but monarchs are no longer considered semi-divine in Western culture. |
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Post by djorno on Mar 21, 2023 9:30:21 GMT
He did indeed. How do believers honor the Father? By giving Him reverence, following his ways, praying to him and of course worshiping Him. Yep. Again yep. Absolutely. Why of course. “For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.” John 5:22-23 Honoring someone is not worshipping them. People honor the Caesars and the Kings of England, but monarchs are no longer considered semi-divine in Western culture. Caesars and Kings of England are not God. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 21, 2023 9:49:21 GMT
“For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.” John 5:22-23 Honoring someone is not worshipping them. People honor the Caesars and the Kings of England, but monarchs are no longer considered semi-divine in Western culture. Caesars and Kings of England are not God. The word in the Bible passage is "honor," not worship. We honor kings and commoners sometimes. |
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Post by djorno on Mar 21, 2023 10:40:15 GMT
Caesars and Kings of England are not God. The word in the Bible passage is "honor," not worship. We honor kings and commoners sometimes. There are many different ways to honour God. You can honour God by praying to Him. By following his teachings, by practicing righteousness, by serving others. And you can honour God by praising and worshiping Him. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 21, 2023 10:47:44 GMT
The word in the Bible passage is "honor," not worship. We honor kings and commoners sometimes. There are many different ways to honour God. You can honour God by praying to Him. By following his teachings, by practicing righteousness, by serving others. And you can honour God by praising and worshiping Him. It says honor, which can be worshipping or not. You don't worship your parents. Anyway, how does John know what Jesus said since his wrote like 70 years later. |
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djorno
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Post by djorno on Mar 21, 2023 14:44:50 GMT
There are many different ways to honour God. You can honour God by praying to Him. By following his teachings, by practicing righteousness, by serving others. And you can honour God by praising and worshiping Him. It says honor, which can be worshipping or not. You don't worship your parents. Anyway, how does John know what Jesus said since his wrote like 70 years later. He was there when Jesus said those things. |
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Post by Vegas on Mar 21, 2023 22:35:09 GMT
“For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.” John 5:22-23 Honoring someone is not worshipping them. People honor the Caesars and the Kings of England, but monarchs are no longer considered semi-divine in Western culture. Neither are your parents that The Bible tells you to honor..... |
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djorno
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Post by djorno on Mar 22, 2023 9:12:21 GMT
Caesars and Kings of England are not God. Neither are your parents that The Bible tells you to honor..... Honoring your parents, the Caesars and Kings would not include worship because they are not God. That’s the point. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 22, 2023 9:33:06 GMT
It says honor, which can be worshipping or not. You don't worship your parents. Anyway, how does John know what Jesus said since his wrote like 70 years later. He was there when Jesus said those things. No, he was not. |
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