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Post by rizdek on Mar 18, 2023 16:55:33 GMT
disproves materialism.
I think they're wrong. NOT that materialism is necessarily true, but that THIS experiment doesn't disprove it. They seem to be saying that because a researcher decided to 'turn on' a detector and thus make the wave collapse before it goes through the double slit, that this shows the 'decision' by the researcher played a part in making the wave collapse. It's indeed spooky, but there would seem to be something about the detector being on that caused the wave to collapse, not the person's consciousness or 'decision' to turn on the detector. It seems if they wanted to test the effects of consciousness on the wave particle conundrum, they could just have the researchers lean down near the device and think really hard and see what happens.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 18, 2023 17:05:40 GMT
Years ago I heard that electrons move faster when observed. One of the materialists on the board got uptight and demanded that I prove it.
Well now, of course you do.
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Post by general313 on Mar 18, 2023 17:30:11 GMT
Quantum mechanics is indeed very strange and counterintuitive but it is still a description of the behavior of matter, in fact the most accurate one that we know of today. Without QM, many aspects of chemistry and physics (subjects pertaining to matter) are not explainable, for example the periodic table and emission spectra.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 19, 2023 3:51:55 GMT
Years ago I heard that electrons move faster when observed. One of the materialists on the board got uptight and demanded that I prove it. Well now, of course you do. Did you prove it?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 19, 2023 3:55:22 GMT
Years ago I heard that electrons move faster when observed. One of the materialists on the board got uptight and demanded that I prove it. Well now, of course you do. Did you prove it? Should I have to?
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 19, 2023 4:01:16 GMT
This is what the physicists Fritjof Capra and the Fundamental Fysiks Group were discovering theoretically back in the 70s and turned to Eastern mysticism to help understand what they were seeing. Niels Bohr and Werner Heisenberg also had noticed the similarities. No doubt Oppenheimer did too. This should be the "death" of materialism, but we will have to redefine it.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 19, 2023 4:02:12 GMT
That anything can travel faster than light? Show us your mathematical theorem.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 19, 2023 4:04:13 GMT
That anything can travel faster than light? No, that electrons move faster when observed. I don't have one.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 19, 2023 4:09:30 GMT
That anything can travel faster than light? No, that electrons move faster when observed. I don't have one. An electron is thing. How do you know there is not just one electron in existence, and it moves through the universe holding up in existence everything, everywhere, all at once. And it's not a matter of you don't have to, because like me, you don't how.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 19, 2023 13:26:35 GMT
No, that electrons move faster when observed. I don't have one. An electron is thing. How do you know there is not just one electron in existence, and it moves through the universe holding up in existence everything, everywhere, all at once. And it's not a matter of you don't have to, because like me, you don't how. An electron moves around the nucleus of an atom. That's the movement I was referring to. Sorry, I didn't realize it would need explaining.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 19, 2023 14:13:59 GMT
An electron is thing. How do you know there is not just one electron in existence, and it moves through the universe holding up in existence everything, everywhere, all at once. And it's not a matter of you don't have to, because like me, you don't how. An electron moves around the nucleus of an atom. That's the movement I was referring to. Sorry, I didn't realize it would need explaining. Well, excuse me, professor. But it can be just one electron in existence in the entirety of the universe: spooky.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2023 14:29:11 GMT
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Post by faustus5 on Mar 19, 2023 15:19:45 GMT
This should be the "death" of materialism, but we will have to redefine it. Just to clarify, materialism as it has been understood in philosophy is the assumption that the universe is composed only of the processes and entities that physics uncovers, nothing else.
So this means anything coming out of quantum physics, however weird, just gets folded into materialism. (That might just be another way of saying what you already meant.)
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Post by rizdek on Mar 19, 2023 15:32:45 GMT
Years ago I heard that electrons move faster when observed. One of the materialists on the board got uptight and demanded that I prove it. Well now, of course you do. And I gave my reasons. But of course you ignored them.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 19, 2023 15:42:23 GMT
Years ago I heard that electrons move faster when observed. One of the materialists on the board got uptight and demanded that I prove it. Well now, of course you do. And I gave my reasons. But of course you ignored them. No, not really.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 19, 2023 15:43:05 GMT
This should be the "death" of materialism, but we will have to redefine it. Just to clarify, materialism as it has been understood in philosophy is the assumption that the universe is composed only of the processes and entities that physics uncovers, nothing else.
So this means anything coming out of quantum physics, however weird, just gets folded into materialism. (That might just be another way of saying what you already meant.)
It may mean there is another force out there the physics haven’t uncovered yet, just like in the 19th century they thought they had done it all, then bam, they discovered another layer. This force could redefine “material,” both the definition and the actual material, because it’s something not material. That’s what the wave-collapse hints at. Like I referenced above, young 60s California experimental physicists, who were also experimenting in psychedelics, dared to think the unthinkable in hard science and looked to Eastern mysticism to get a handle on what their expanding minds were telling them. However, I don’t worry about the philosophy part because after 2,500 years if the great brains haven’t figured it out, I’m not going to waste my little mind on it. I just enjoy processes and entities.
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Post by rizdek on Mar 19, 2023 15:54:55 GMT
That anything can travel faster than light? Show us your mathematical theorem. I don't know much about it, but isn't it actually nothing with can be accelerated to the speed of light (or faster) in a given frame of reference? This article is interesting. It doesn't really claim things go 'faster' that the speed of light, but it talks about 'shortcuts' and 'conditions' where relative speed is faster than the speed of light. One example is that distant parts of the expanding universe are moving away from each other at faster than the speed of light. Another example is the possibility that 'shortcuts' can be taken if there are such things as wormholes that connect distant parts of the universe. These may never provide the means for complex bodies (like humans) to go through, but may allow single particles/photons/etc to go through thus giving the illusion that information is traveling faster than the speed of light or even traveling instantaneously. That may explain this whole quantum entanglement...ie nothing is causing or allowing faster than light travel, but the distance is erased so that they (the two entangled particles) are still actually linked even if from our perspective they are far apart spatially.
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Post by rizdek on Mar 19, 2023 15:55:26 GMT
And I gave my reasons. But of course you ignored them. No, not really. Then address them. Because you really didn't.
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Post by rizdek on Mar 19, 2023 15:57:00 GMT
Just to clarify, materialism as it has been understood in philosophy is the assumption that the universe is composed only of the processes and entities that physics uncovers, nothing else.
So this means anything coming out of quantum physics, however weird, just gets folded into materialism. (That might just be another way of saying what you already meant.)
It may mean there is another force out there the physics haven’t uncovered yet, just like in the 19th century they thought they had done it all, then bam, they discovered another layer. This force could redefine “material,” both the definition and the actual material, because it’s something not material. That’s what the wave-collapse hints at. Like I referenced above, young 60s California experimental physicists, who were also experimenting in psychedelics, dared to think the unthinkable in hard science and looked to Eastern mysticism to get a handle on what their expanding minds were telling them. However, I don’t worry about the philosophy part because after 2,500 years if the great brains haven’t figured it out, I’m not going to waste my little mind on it. I just enjoy processes and entities. ...and funny youtube videos, right?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 19, 2023 16:02:02 GMT
Then address them. Because you really didn't. If I'm understanding this correctly, the predicted result wasn't there. Is that an accurate statement?
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