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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jun 19, 2023 10:51:18 GMT
This is not meant to be an attack on anybody, but a persons faith is not based on some divine truth or holy scriptures, its in most cases based on family, geography and culture, and the lucky thing is that, the faith you have is always the correct one. You can belive in God, there is nothing wrong in believing, but the fact is this, there is no evidence that the God you belive in, is anymore real than the Gods you don`t belive in.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Jun 19, 2023 15:27:57 GMT
While family, geography, and culture are involved, the ONLY reason for faith is what you have been told. If no one ever told you about God, Jehovah, or Yahweh, would you still believe? And by “told”, I include reading books or seeing drawings Whether you believe in them or not, you know about Zeus, Santa Clause, Johnny Appleseed, President Biden, or Mount Rushmore. But do you believe that the red-spotted toad of western Montana is a real thing, a fictional story I read about as a child, or something I just made up out of thin air. You only know about God because you’ve been told about God. You only believe in God because you’ve been pressured to believe in God.
Fear of the unknown adds to the pressure to believe. “People everywhere are the same in one thing - they're all afraid to die.” – Elmer Gantry And everything you have been “told” about God you learned from someone who (A) was told by a third party, or (B) an embellishment of something that they have been told. It’s like the game of “telephone” (a.k.a. Chinese Whispers). The story started thousands of years ago. Everyone puts a new spin on the story to suit their own needs. Christians doubled the Bible. LDS re-wrote the Book of Mormon, and those jerks in Warwick, NY, keep tweaking their “book of truth” to keep the hoi polloi in line. Religion isn’t about belief. It’s about power, money, and the desire to control. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 19, 2023 16:20:45 GMT
This is not meant to be an attack on anybody, but a persons faith is not based on some divine truth or holy scriptures, its in most cases based on family, geography and culture, and the lucky thing is that, the faith you have is always the correct one. You can belive in God, there is nothing wrong in believing, but the fact is this, there is no evidence that the God you belive in, is anymore real than the Gods you don`t believe in. You have a condition, on this topic anyway, of being "plainspoken" to a fault. Being plainspoken is not ordinarily or always necessarily a fault. In fact it is admirable in most circumstances. Where being plainspoken can become trouble is on topics where abstract or especially uncommon concepts are usually encountered. Religion and the Bible usually deal with things that are not common experiences. A "common" experience for most people is the color green. We may discuss the color green literally and plainly because we each have the same experience to attach to the same word. When discussing an experience that is not common, no "literal" or plain speech will work the same. Suppose you were blind from before birth and have no experience of the color green. How could I explain it to you in plain or literal communication? I could not. I would have to try poetry, symbolism, allegory, and other indirect and not very plain speech. Things with similar properties that you have experienced might be used to help you understand green, however with caution. There are no perfect analogies. When you complain that there are "numerous gods" you are perhaps failing to see that those are just numerous attempts to name or describe something that is beyond plain speech, and actually the same sort of experience albeit one many people have not had. You might notice on close inspection that religious people have more in common with each other that with atheists. That could be because religious people are accustomed to abstractions and atheists are not. Young people are generally not apprised of these confusing details because they are expected to absorb a foundation base of coordinated stories first to "use" later.
Young people and their plainspoken understanding of religion can be a big problem, notice the Trump base.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 19, 2023 16:44:25 GMT
While family, geography, and culture are involved, the ONLY reason for faith is what you have been told. If no one ever told you about God, Jehovah, or Yahweh, would you still believe? And by “told”, I include reading books or seeing drawings Whether you believe in them or not, you know about Zeus, Santa Clause, Johnny Appleseed, President Biden, or Mount Rushmore. But do you believe that the red-spotted toad of western Montana is a real thing, a fictional story I read about as a child, or something I just made up out of thin air. You only know about God because you’ve been told about God. You only believe in God because you’ve been pressured to believe in God.
Fear of the unknown adds to the pressure to believe. “People everywhere are the same in one thing - they're all afraid to die.” – Elmer Gantry And everything you have been “told” about God you learned from someone who (A) was told by a third party, or (B) an embellishment of something that they have been told. It’s like the game of “telephone” (a.k.a. Chinese Whispers). The story started thousands of years ago. Everyone puts a new spin on the story to suit their own needs. Christians doubled the Bible. LDS re-wrote the Book of Mormon, and those jerks in Warwick, NY, keep tweaking their “book of truth” to keep the hoi polloi in line. Religion isn’t about belief. It’s about power, money, and the desire to control. It is quite sad that the concept of "religion" for most atheists is the sort of "Christianity" that the Trump base typically holds. Their "nationalism" can be unnecessarily disrespectful of other countries and religions. They cannot see when other people are like themselves. Religion is more an art than a science and even Greek "myths" can be quite artful. There is a "moral" to this one. Tithonus Tithonus had an opportunity to have a wish granted. He wished for eternal life. As time passed however he got older and older. Like other old people he could not walk as well without a cane. like other old people he could not hear or see as well. Then he realized that eternal life was not going to be worth what he thought. He realized he should have wished for eternal youth. One moral, there are perhaps others, that might be drawn from this story is that we spend too much on medicine trying to extend our years when that will not work. We will get just as old anyway, and in our case, if not that of Tithonus, we are going to die about the same time. You perhaps heard stories of extending life for unusually long periods of time, by curing a childhood disorder for example. I suppose some of those are true. I think it is also true though that people waste much money on treatments whose value is really not clear, especially in their old age. If you believe you have any less desire for power, money or control than others, you delude yourself. Yours is just a less refined method of obtaining those. |
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jun 19, 2023 18:22:49 GMT
This is not meant to be an attack on anybody, but a persons faith is not based on some divine truth or holy scriptures, its in most cases based on family, geography and culture, and the lucky thing is that, the faith you have is always the correct one. You can belive in God, there is nothing wrong in believing, but the fact is this, there is no evidence that the God you belive in, is anymore real than the Gods you don`t believe in. You have a condition, on this topic anyway, of being "plainspoken" to a fault. Being plainspoken is not ordinarily or always necessarily a fault. In fact it is admirable in most circumstances. Where being plainspoken can become trouble is on topics where abstract or especially uncommon concepts are usually encountered. Religion and the Bible usually deal with things that are not common experiences. A "common" experience for most people is the color green. We may discuss the color green literally and plainly because we each have the same experience to attach to the same word. When discussing an experience that is not common, no "literal" or plain speech will work the same. Suppose you were blind from before birth and have no experience of the color green. How could I explain it to you in plain or literal communication? I could not. I would have to try poetry, symbolism, allegory, and other indirect and not very plain speech. Things with similar properties that you have experienced might be used to help you understand green, however with caution. There are no perfect analogies. When you complain that there are "numerous gods" you are perhaps failing to see that those are just numerous attempts to name or describe something that is beyond plain speech, and actually the same sort of experience albeit one many people have not had. You might notice on close inspection that religious people have more in common with each other that with atheists. That could be because religious people are accustomed to abstractions and atheists are not. Young people are generally not apprised of these confusing details because they are expected to absorb a foundation base of coordinated stories first to "use" later.
Young people and their plainspoken understanding of religion can be a big problem, notice the Trump base.
I don`t speak or write in allegory or symbolism. I say exactly what i mean, and there is no hidden meaning in what i write or say. its very simple, if i say the grass is green, than i am saying that the grass is green, there is no hidden meaning behind me saying the grass is green. I find talking in hidden meaning, allegories or symbolism a pointless waste of time. And you say a lot, without saying anything. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 19, 2023 18:25:54 GMT
While family, geography, and culture are involved, the ONLY reason for faith is what you have been told. If no one ever told you about God, Jehovah, or Yahweh, would you still believe? And by “told”, I include reading books or seeing drawings Whether you believe in them or not, you know about Zeus, Santa Clause, Johnny Appleseed, President Biden, or Mount Rushmore. But do you believe that the red-spotted toad of western Montana is a real thing, a fictional story I read about as a child, or something I just made up out of thin air. You only know about God because you’ve been told about God. You only believe in God because you’ve been pressured to believe in God.
Fear of the unknown adds to the pressure to believe. “People everywhere are the same in one thing - they're all afraid to die.” – Elmer Gantry And everything you have been “told” about God you learned from someone who (A) was told by a third party, or (B) an embellishment of something that they have been told. It’s like the game of “telephone” (a.k.a. Chinese Whispers). The story started thousands of years ago. Everyone puts a new spin on the story to suit their own needs. Christians doubled the Bible. LDS re-wrote the Book of Mormon, and those jerks in Warwick, NY, keep tweaking their “book of truth” to keep the hoi polloi in line. Religion isn’t about belief. It’s about power, money, and the desire to control. It is quite sad that the concept of "religion" for most atheists is the sort of "Christianity" that the Trump base typically holds. Their "nationalism" can be unnecessarily disrespectful of other countries and religions. They cannot see when other people are like themselves. Religion is more an art than a science and even Greek "myths" can be quite artful. There is a "moral" to this one. Tithonus Tithonus had an opportunity to have a wish granted. He wished for eternal life. As time passed however he got older and older. Like other old people he could not walk as well without a cane. like other old people he could not hear or see as well. Then he realized that eternal life was not going to be worth what he thought. He realized he should have wished for eternal youth. One moral, there are perhaps others, that might be drawn from this story is that we spend too much on medicine trying to extend our years when that will not work. We will get just as old anyway, Another moral is that Tithonus should merely have wished for as many wishes as he wanted. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 19, 2023 18:32:33 GMT
A "common" experience for most people is the color green. We may discuss the color green literally and plainly because we each have the same experience to attach to the same word. When discussing an experience that is not common, no "literal" or plain speech will work the same. Suppose you were blind from before birth and have no experience of the color green. How could I explain it to you in plain or literal communication? I could not. You have tried this before and it does not entirely work. The fact is that no one can tell what a blind person might think 'green' is, especially after prompting, let alone how an idea could be checked. (In fact, it could a testament to the power of faith and subjective truth that a blind person thinks he has it correctly in his mind.) In other words since the idea of a blind person about green is not falsifiable, it is not a scientific test to ask for it. Lately too one remembers that you have just recently asserted that we should not discard the very, very unlikely when some thing is, never the less, still possible. And when you talk of "experiences attached to the same word" that would be a label - when on occasions past you have been at pains to assure us that labels and definitions are different things, not to be conflated. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 19, 2023 19:45:18 GMT
A "common" experience for most people is the color green. We may discuss the color green literally and plainly because we each have the same experience to attach to the same word. When discussing an experience that is not common, no "literal" or plain speech will work the same. Suppose you were blind from before birth and have no experience of the color green. How could I explain it to you in plain or literal communication? I could not. You have tried this before and it does not entirely work. The fact is that no one can tell what a blind person might think 'green' is, especially after prompting, let alone how an idea could be checked. (In fact, it could a testament to the power of faith and subjective truth that a blind person thinks he has it correctly in his mind.) In other words since the idea of a blind person about green is not falsifiable, it is not a scientific test to ask for it. Lately too one remembers that you have just recently asserted that we should not discard the very, very unlikely when some thing is, never the less, still possible. And when you talk of "experiences attached to the same word" that would be a label - when on occasions past you have been at pains to assure us that labels and definitions are different things, not to be conflated. I am certain is does not entirely work on you and perhaps other people with your problem. That is not my concern. I do not expect you to get it, and consider your ravings about anything lunatic. And do not attempt to apply the "rules." If you keep misapplying them I will have to contact the administration of the board whether those are board rules, since they are not rules anywhere else. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 19, 2023 19:46:47 GMT
You have tried this before and it does not entirely work. The fact is that no one can tell what a blind person might think 'green' is, especially after prompting, let alone how an idea could be checked. (In fact, it could a testament to the power of faith and subjective truth that a blind person thinks he has it correctly in his mind.) In other words since the idea of a blind person about green is not falsifiable, it is not a scientific test to ask for it. Lately too one remembers that you have just recently asserted that we should not discard the very, very unlikely when some thing is, never the less, still possible. And when you talk of "experiences attached to the same word" that would be a label - when on occasions past you have been at pains to assure us that labels and definitions are different things, not to be conflated. I am certain is does not entirely work on you and perhaps other people with your problem. That is not my concern. I do not expect you to get it, and consider your ravings about anything lunatic. There are none so blind as will not see. Hey, I wonder if there is a rule against comparing someone to the offspring of Nazis as you did me just earlier, on another thread? |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 19, 2023 19:56:06 GMT
You have a condition, on this topic anyway, of being "plainspoken" to a fault. Being plainspoken is not ordinarily or always necessarily a fault. In fact it is admirable in most circumstances. Where being plainspoken can become trouble is on topics where abstract or especially uncommon concepts are usually encountered. Religion and the Bible usually deal with things that are not common experiences. A "common" experience for most people is the color green. We may discuss the color green literally and plainly because we each have the same experience to attach to the same word. When discussing an experience that is not common, no "literal" or plain speech will work the same. Suppose you were blind from before birth and have no experience of the color green. How could I explain it to you in plain or literal communication? I could not. I would have to try poetry, symbolism, allegory, and other indirect and not very plain speech. Things with similar properties that you have experienced might be used to help you understand green, however with caution. There are no perfect analogies. When you complain that there are "numerous gods" you are perhaps failing to see that those are just numerous attempts to name or describe something that is beyond plain speech, and actually the same sort of experience albeit one many people have not had. You might notice on close inspection that religious people have more in common with each other that with atheists. That could be because religious people are accustomed to abstractions and atheists are not. Young people are generally not apprised of these confusing details because they are expected to absorb a foundation base of coordinated stories first to "use" later.
Young people and their plainspoken understanding of religion can be a big problem, notice the Trump base.
I don`t speak or write in allegory or symbolism. I say exactly what i mean, and there is no hidden meaning in what i write or say. its very simple, if i say the grass is green, than i am saying that the grass is green, there is no hidden meaning behind me saying the grass is green. I find talking in hidden meaning, allegories or symbolism a pointless waste of time. And you say a lot, without saying anything. I think you should get along fairly well then as long as you avoid claiming that simply because you cannot see or understand something, it must not exist. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 19, 2023 19:58:28 GMT
I am certain is does not entirely work on you and perhaps other people with your problem. That is not my concern. I do not expect you to get it, and consider your ravings about anything lunatic. There are none so blind as will not see. Hey, I wonder if there is a rule against comparing someone to the offspring of Nazis as you did me just earlier, on another thread? Oh, you didn't like that? Guess what I don't like? |
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jackbrock
Sophomore
@jackbrock
Posts: 119
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Post by jackbrock on Jun 20, 2023 0:26:20 GMT
This is not meant to be an attack on anybody, but a persons faith is not based on some divine truth or holy scriptures, its in most cases based on family, geography and culture, and the lucky thing is that, the faith you have is always the correct one. You can believe in God, there is nothing wrong in believing, but the fact is this, there is no evidence that the God you believe in, is anymore real than the Gods you don`t believe in. You're not wrong. You are right on the mark. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 20, 2023 2:21:22 GMT
This is not meant to be an attack on anybody, but a persons faith is not based on some divine truth or holy scriptures, its in most cases based on family, geography and culture, and the lucky thing is that, the faith you have is always the correct one. You can believe in God, there is nothing wrong in believing, but the fact is this, there is no evidence that the God you believe in, is anymore real than the Gods you don`t believe in. You're not wrong. You are right on the mark. Behold the awesome power of children on social media!
Have you read my signature? It's a board thing.
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jackbrock
Sophomore
@jackbrock
Posts: 119
Likes: 20
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Post by jackbrock on Jun 20, 2023 2:39:19 GMT
You're not wrong. You are right on the mark. Behold the awesome power of children on social media!
Have you read my signature? It's a board thing.
You really do think a lot of yourself, don't you. Troll much? |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 20, 2023 2:59:08 GMT
Behold the awesome power of children on social media!
Have you read my signature? It's a board thing.
You really do think a lot of yourself, don't you. Troll much? I obviously think a lot about something more than you do, but it isn't myself.
Are you angry because I am not as impressed by you as you expected? I don't have much of an opinion about you because I don't know you. For all I know you might be a great guy, but I don't know.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jun 20, 2023 9:47:13 GMT
You really do think a lot of yourself, don't you. Troll much? I obviously think a lot about something more than you do, but it isn't myself.
Are you angry because I am not as impressed by you as you expected? I don't have much of an opinion about you because I don't know you. For all I know you might be a great guy, but I don't know.
Are you familiar with Grandiloquence ? Because that is what you are doing. |
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jun 20, 2023 9:59:58 GMT
Behold the awesome power of children on social media!
Have you read my signature? It's a board thing.
You really do think a lot of yourself, don't you. Troll much? Just ignore him, Arion10 is just a person who says a lot without substances. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 20, 2023 12:07:09 GMT
There are none so blind as will not see. Hey, I wonder if there is a rule against comparing someone to the offspring of Nazis as you did me just earlier, on another thread? Oh, you didn't like that? Guess what I don't like? Being asked for substantiation. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 20, 2023 12:59:42 GMT
I obviously think a lot about something more than you do, but it isn't myself.
Are you angry because I am not as impressed by you as you expected? I don't have much of an opinion about you because I don't know you. For all I know you might be a great guy, but I don't know.
Are you familiar with Grandiloquence ? Because that is what you are doing. Does that make you feel better about all the stuff going on that you cannot follow?
I think you can follow it. I think you will follow it. Somewhere along the way you just took some wrong advice.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 20, 2023 13:01:48 GMT
Oh, you didn't like that? Guess what I don't like? Being asked for substantiation. Well ... ...
You know you need a new schtick, don't you? That one didn't make it through the ringer last time.
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