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Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 3, 2024 22:29:47 GMT
This would be the legacy sequel that would bomb (like BR 2049) because I actually liked it.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 3, 2024 23:41:18 GMT
I still don't understand why they couldn't have recast Indy. Yes, Ford was iconic in the role, but then so was Sean Connery as Bond. They should've gone with a younger actor and a smaller budget. They tried that with Solo and that didn't work either. Gisnep needs to just Dial it back.
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Post by ck100 on Apr 3, 2024 23:49:56 GMT
Amazing that over $100 million of the budget was spent just on Harrison Ford for this movie. His $25-30 million paycheck and $79 million just to de-age him for the prologue. That's a lot of faith to put in an 80-year old actor to sell tickets to an action/adventure film they're starring in.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 4, 2024 15:19:10 GMT
It should be worth noting that those who actually saw the movie liked it. Unfortunately, the crowd of people hoping it would fail (for various reasons) were able to scare people away from seeing it before it came out.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 4, 2024 20:54:23 GMT
It should be worth noting that those who actually saw the movie liked it. Unfortunately, the crowd of people hoping it would fail (for various reasons) were able to scare people away from seeing it before it came out. I find it curious what you're implying considering your thoughts on TLJ, which reminds me I never went back to your reply in that thread.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 4, 2024 21:24:44 GMT
It should be worth noting that those who actually saw the movie liked it. Unfortunately, the crowd of people hoping it would fail (for various reasons) were able to scare people away from seeing it before it came out. I find it curious what you're implying considering your thoughts on TLJ, which reminds me I never went back to your reply in that thread. People were complaining about DoD before it was even released, saying that it was 'woke' and Indy took a backseat to Helena. This simply isn't true, and once people actually watched the movie, they realized that. Too late to save the box office, but critics and audiences ultimately agreed it was a good movie, at least as far as the all-powerful Rotten Tomatoes scores suggest. I'm not sure how this compares to TLJ, which was a poorly written mess of a film from top to bottom. Nothing in that movie makes sense, and it has nothing to do with 'wokeness' or gender.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 4, 2024 21:50:23 GMT
I find it curious what you're implying considering your thoughts on TLJ, which reminds me I never went back to your reply in that thread. People were complaining about DoD before it was even released, saying that it was 'woke' and Indy took a backseat to Helena. This simply isn't true, and once people actually watched the movie, they realized that. Too late to save the box office, but critics and audiences ultimately agreed it was a good movie, at least as far as the all-powerful Rotten Tomatoes scores suggest. I'm not sure how this compares to TLJ, which was a poorly written mess of a film from top to bottom. Nothing in that movie makes sense, and it has nothing to do with 'wokeness' or gender. Because You're repurposing arguments TLJ defenders make, ie a targeted smear campaign against the mouse house and feminists by right wing culture warriors. In particular, a male legacy character being emasculated to prop up a vagina haver. And let's not pretend people didn't already have their knives out over the Rey character before TLJ. Now, I'm not gonna act like every singly person who doesn't like TLJ or its portrayal of Luke is part of an agenda or radicalized by one, but I can personally say I watched it with a theater full of people who loved it, and talked to people who couldn't get enough of it, and saw it praised by channels such as Geeks and Gamers, who all turned on it after a rather overtly politicized online backlash. You're free to draw a line between the two films and or like one more than the other, just pointing out the inherent irony.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 4, 2024 22:54:21 GMT
People were complaining about DoD before it was even released, saying that it was 'woke' and Indy took a backseat to Helena. This simply isn't true, and once people actually watched the movie, they realized that. Too late to save the box office, but critics and audiences ultimately agreed it was a good movie, at least as far as the all-powerful Rotten Tomatoes scores suggest. I'm not sure how this compares to TLJ, which was a poorly written mess of a film from top to bottom. Nothing in that movie makes sense, and it has nothing to do with 'wokeness' or gender. Because You're repurposing arguments TLJ defenders make, ie a targeted smear campaign against the mouse house and feminists by right wing culture warriors. In particular, a male legacy character being emasculated to prop up a vagina haver. And let's not pretend people didn't already have their knives out over the Rey character before TLJ. Now, I'm not gonna act like every singly person who doesn't like TLJ or its portrayal of Luke is part of an agenda or radicalized by one, but I can personally say I watched it with a theater full of people who loved it, and talked to people who couldn't get enough of it, and saw it praised by channels such as Geeks and Gamers, who all turned on it after a rather overtly politicized online backlash. You're free to draw a line between the two films and or like one more than the other, just pointing out the inherent irony. I'm not repurposing anything, I'm only giving you my opinion. For the record, I think TLJ is what had people worried about DoD, considering they did ruin Luke's character to prop up Rey. I can't speak for everyone, but for me her gender isn't the problem with how that story plays out. So yeah, the shoe fits in TLJ I suppose, but it definitely doesn't in DoD. Therein lies the huge difference.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 4, 2024 23:18:10 GMT
Because You're repurposing arguments TLJ defenders make, ie a targeted smear campaign against the mouse house and feminists by right wing culture warriors. In particular, a male legacy character being emasculated to prop up a vagina haver. And let's not pretend people didn't already have their knives out over the Rey character before TLJ. Now, I'm not gonna act like every singly person who doesn't like TLJ or its portrayal of Luke is part of an agenda or radicalized by one, but I can personally say I watched it with a theater full of people who loved it, and talked to people who couldn't get enough of it, and saw it praised by channels such as Geeks and Gamers, who all turned on it after a rather overtly politicized online backlash. You're free to draw a line between the two films and or like one more than the other, just pointing out the inherent irony. I'm not repurposing anything, I'm only giving you my opinion. For the record, I think TLJ is what had people worried about DoD, considering they did ruin Luke's character to prop up Rey. I can't speak for everyone, but for me her gender isn't the problem with how that story plays out. So yeah, the shoe fits in TLJ I suppose, but it definitely doesn't in DoD. Therein lies the huge difference. Alrighty.
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Post by janntosh on Apr 5, 2024 0:15:12 GMT
Indy 5 bombed so horribly for the following reasons
1. It was following Crystal Skull which was widely disliked and unlike the Star Wars prequels didn’t get any kind of fanbase or appreciation throughout the years.
2. It was following the Star Wars sequel trilogy which became widely disliked and probably made a lot of fans (who are also likely fans of Indiana Jones) to view a new Indy movie from Kathleen Kennedy’s Lucasfilm with trepidation.
3. Rumors that Phoebe Waller-Bridge was going to take over the franchise as the “new Indy” which the filmmakers fueled, which made some remaining fans who might have still given this a chance to just go “oh fuck off already”
4. No Gen Z appeal. Connects to number 1. Young people don’t care about Indiana Jones. The last good Indy movie came out years before they were born and there were no TV shows or video games to keep the franchise relevant.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 5, 2024 15:17:02 GMT
Indy 5 bombed so horribly for the following reasons 1. It was following Crystal Skull which was widely disliked and unlike the Star Wars prequels didn’t get any kind of fanbase or appreciation throughout the years. 2. It was following the Star Wars sequel trilogy which became widely disliked and probably made a lot of fans (who are also likely fans of Indiana Jones) to view a new Indy movie from Kathleen Kennedy’s Lucasfilm with trepidation. 3. Rumors that Phoebe Waller-Bridge was going to take over the franchise as the “new Indy” which the filmmakers fueled, which made some remaining fans who might have still given this a chance to just go “oh fuck off already” 4. No Gen Z appeal. Connects to number 1. Young people don’t care about Indiana Jones. The last good Indy movie came out years before they were born and there were no TV shows or video games to keep the franchise relevant. 5. Harrison Ford is 367 years old
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 5, 2024 16:37:36 GMT
Indy 5 bombed so horribly for the following reasons 1. It was following Crystal Skull which was widely disliked and unlike the Star Wars prequels didn’t get any kind of fanbase or appreciation throughout the years. 2. It was following the Star Wars sequel trilogy which became widely disliked and probably made a lot of fans (who are also likely fans of Indiana Jones) to view a new Indy movie from Kathleen Kennedy’s Lucasfilm with trepidation. 3. Rumors that Phoebe Waller-Bridge was going to take over the franchise as the “new Indy” which the filmmakers fueled, which made some remaining fans who might have still given this a chance to just go “oh fuck off already” 4. No Gen Z appeal. Connects to number 1. Young people don’t care about Indiana Jones. The last good Indy movie came out years before they were born and there were no TV shows or video games to keep the franchise relevant. 5. Harrison Ford is 367 years old So was Clint Eastwood when he made Gran Torino, people loved it.
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 5, 2024 16:41:27 GMT
Haven't seen it, don't plan to see it, I'm fencing with the 'There are only THREE Indiana Jones movies' crowd.
Now this idea that it bombed because people blindly believed rumors about it being woke and didn't go just because of that? Not really buying it. People initially said Barbie would be a woke movie, didn't it make a billion dollars? Indy has a fanbase spanning 40 years, they didn't come, they didn't want to see it.
I saw a comment last night that somebody summed it up as they wasted 15 years because they couldn't agree on a good story for the movie, and then they give us this, which nobody likes.
If they were going to de-age Indy anyway, they should've done the original Temple of Doom idea of Indiana Jones in a haunted castle, now THAT, I would've paid to see. I've said for years, have him and Dracula fighting for the same ancient holy relic, THAT could've been a cool idea, it would've been something different anyway, and another notch on Mr. 'I don't believe in hocus pocus even though I've seen people get their hearts ripped out and live''s belt.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 5, 2024 17:32:56 GMT
So was Clint Eastwood when he made Gran Torino, people loved it.
Eastwood avoided film that were reliant on FX or stunts. It's not the same audience. Ford probably could have done more things that were character-oriented but chose not to. He's happy to take the pay check. I think Eastwood is the last movie star who made a career from his personality alone. After him, the big stars were those who appeared in films which had stunts or FX. If we are talking about non-comedies.
Schwarzenegger, Stallone (especially after Rambo although he has done character-focused things), Willis, Depp, they all were involved in things where FX were a major box office component.
Not Eastwood.
He rarely did things that required special effects. Firefox, Space Cowboys...
The other problem with Indiana Jones is that the character was created as a parody of an action hero (just as James Bond was intended as a kind of deconstruction). The audience might see them as heroic figures because they have expectations for that but the filmmakers generally did not. Especially Spielberg and Lucas.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 5, 2024 17:48:58 GMT
Haven't seen it, don't plan to see it, I'm fencing with the 'There are only THREE Indiana Jones movies' crowd. Now this idea that it bombed because people blindly believed rumors about it being woke and didn't go just because of that? Not really buying it. People initially said Barbie would be a woke movie, didn't it make a billion dollars? Indy has a fanbase spanning 40 years, they didn't come, they didn't want to see it. I saw a comment last night that somebody summed it up as they wasted 15 years because they couldn't agree on a good story for the movie, and then they give us this, which nobody likes. If they were going to de-age Indy anyway, they should've done the original Temple of Doom idea of Indiana Jones in a haunted castle, now THAT, I would've paid to see. I've said for years, have him and Dracula fighting for the same ancient holy relic, THAT could've been a cool idea, it would've been something different anyway, and another notch on Mr. 'I don't believe in hocus pocus even though I've seen people get their hearts ripped out and live''s belt. Response to the film by those who saw it was overwhelmingly positive. Anyway, I have to laugh at the idea of Indiana Jones and Barbie having the same target audience. There were a multitude of factors that others have pointed out, but yes, it was partially done in by fears that it would turn Indy into a supporting character, which it did not.
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 5, 2024 18:09:20 GMT
Haven't seen it, don't plan to see it, I'm fencing with the 'There are only THREE Indiana Jones movies' crowd. Now this idea that it bombed because people blindly believed rumors about it being woke and didn't go just because of that? Not really buying it. People initially said Barbie would be a woke movie, didn't it make a billion dollars? Indy has a fanbase spanning 40 years, they didn't come, they didn't want to see it. I saw a comment last night that somebody summed it up as they wasted 15 years because they couldn't agree on a good story for the movie, and then they give us this, which nobody likes. If they were going to de-age Indy anyway, they should've done the original Temple of Doom idea of Indiana Jones in a haunted castle, now THAT, I would've paid to see. I've said for years, have him and Dracula fighting for the same ancient holy relic, THAT could've been a cool idea, it would've been something different anyway, and another notch on Mr. 'I don't believe in hocus pocus even though I've seen people get their hearts ripped out and live''s belt. Response to the film by those who saw it was overwhelmingly positive. Anyway, I have to laugh at the idea of Indiana Jones and Barbie having the same target audience. There were a multitude of factors that others have pointed out, but yes, it was partially done in by fears that it would turn Indy into a supporting character, which it did not.
You're saying idle rumors are why the movie lost almost $400,000,000.00?
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Post by janntosh on Apr 5, 2024 18:20:40 GMT
Haven't seen it, don't plan to see it, I'm fencing with the 'There are only THREE Indiana Jones movies' crowd. Now this idea that it bombed because people blindly believed rumors about it being woke and didn't go just because of that? Not really buying it. People initially said Barbie would be a woke movie, didn't it make a billion dollars? Indy has a fanbase spanning 40 years, they didn't come, they didn't want to see it. I saw a comment last night that somebody summed it up as they wasted 15 years because they couldn't agree on a good story for the movie, and then they give us this, which nobody likes. If they were going to de-age Indy anyway, they should've done the original Temple of Doom idea of Indiana Jones in a haunted castle, now THAT, I would've paid to see. I've said for years, have him and Dracula fighting for the same ancient holy relic, THAT could've been a cool idea, it would've been something different anyway, and another notch on Mr. 'I don't believe in hocus pocus even though I've seen people get their hearts ripped out and live''s belt. Response to the film by those who saw it was overwhelmingly positive. Anyway, I have to laugh at the idea of Indiana Jones and Barbie having the same target audience. There were a multitude of factors that others have pointed out, but yes, it was partially done in by fears that it would turn Indy into a supporting character, which it did not. If the response was that positive it would have held up better over the weeks but it just faded away after its opening which wasn’t even that large
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Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 5, 2024 18:38:23 GMT
The response was decent, nothing special imo. I think the IMDb score is the best measure of that, where this one sits at a 6.5.
From the people that I know saw it in theaters, they all liked it. It seems like it hasn't picked up any steam on streaming and/or Blu-Ray, which is a shame because I really think it's just about as good as any fifth Indy movie sans Spielberg could be.
It has the warmth and magic of Indy in some of its written moments, but it definitely lacks that innate magic Spielberg brings with his filmmaking.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 5, 2024 19:17:48 GMT
5. Harrison Ford is 367 years old So was Clint Eastwood when he made Gran Torino, people loved it. I love the scene in Gran Torino where Clint Eastwood punches 6 Nazis off of a jeep.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 5, 2024 19:18:58 GMT
Response to the film by those who saw it was overwhelmingly positive. Anyway, I have to laugh at the idea of Indiana Jones and Barbie having the same target audience. There were a multitude of factors that others have pointed out, but yes, it was partially done in by fears that it would turn Indy into a supporting character, which it did not. If the response was that positive it would have held up better over the weeks but it just faded away after its opening which wasn’t even that large According to this, people liked it. For the record, I agree with your reasoning as to why it failed. My son is 9 and he loved it, but then he's familiar with the character thanks to me. And all of this is failing to take into account pretty much everything other than Barbie and Oppenheimer failed to meet expectations last year. Streamers are killing theater business. If it isn't seen as 'an event' these days, general audiences aren't interested. To your point, Indy clearly wasn't the event Disney hopes it would be. Why pay theater prices if you can watch it at home in six weeks?
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