Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
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Post by Sam Raimi on Dec 6, 2023 2:24:38 GMT
In what way are they outdated? All the stuff tossed at this movie easily applies to most of Phases 1 and 2 as well. The "Lame Villain" and all. How does that make them outdated? If Marvel is still doing the same stuff isn’t that the opposite of outdated?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Dec 6, 2023 4:04:33 GMT
Secret Invasion really had nothing to do with this movie, mainly because it was supposed to be AFTER the Marvels and not before it. There's barely any connection except maybe that bit with the Skrulls losing their Refuge planet (which fits more as the precursor to Secret Invasion). Ms Marvel getting low views but high ratings is fine, that's how Breaking Bad started. It didn't get high ratings, either. It bombed on Disney+ and ABC.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 6, 2023 16:35:31 GMT
Secret Invasion really had nothing to do with this movie, mainly because it was supposed to be AFTER the Marvels and not before it. There's barely any connection except maybe that bit with the Skrulls losing their Refuge planet (which fits more as the precursor to Secret Invasion). Ms Marvel getting low views but high ratings is fine, that's how Breaking Bad started. It didn't get high ratings, either. It bombed on Disney+ and ABC. So did Breaking Bad, at first.
That and these days making a show about a Teenage Pakistani Girl is never going to be a "Instant Ratings" surety on American TV.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 6, 2023 16:36:10 GMT
All the stuff tossed at this movie easily applies to most of Phases 1 and 2 as well. The "Lame Villain" and all. How does that make them outdated? If Marvel is still doing the same stuff isn’t that the opposite of outdated? The Marvels is accused of doing that some "old stuff", so apparently the fans do see that as outdated and wouldn't like it in those movies if they came out today.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Dec 6, 2023 16:45:27 GMT
It didn't get high ratings, either. It bombed on Disney+ and ABC. So did Breaking Bad, at first.
That and these days making a show about a Teenage Pakistani Girl is never going to be a "Instant Ratings" surety on American TV.
Evidence, please - specifically, provide links with numerical data that supports your claim. If you cannot, then tell me, and everyone else here, why we should consider the comparison legitimately serious and not troll bait which you are known for. An underperformer is an underperformer. You can try to justify why all you like, but the end result is the numbers, and for Ms. Marvel they were just not good.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Dec 6, 2023 16:50:30 GMT
How does that make them outdated? If Marvel is still doing the same stuff isn’t that the opposite of outdated? The Marvels is accused of doing that some "old stuff", so apparently the fans do see that as outdated and wouldn't like it in those movies if they came out today. Ah, going back to relying on "hypocrisy" and "double standards" to further take hold of the topic? We all know where this is heading, anytime a person brings forth a counter argument, you will respond with what is essentially, "it is no different than the others, you are a hypocrite", or, "the 'fans' are blinded by nostalgia. This movie is no better than the ones out of Phases 1 and 2".
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Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
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Post by Sam Raimi on Dec 6, 2023 18:33:37 GMT
How does that make them outdated? If Marvel is still doing the same stuff isn’t that the opposite of outdated? The Marvels is accused of doing that some "old stuff", so apparently the fans do see that as outdated and wouldn't like it in those movies if they came out today. I didn’t ask about imaginary “fans”. YOU called them outdated. YOU. Why do YOU say they’re outdated?
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 6, 2023 20:32:03 GMT
So did Breaking Bad, at first.
That and these days making a show about a Teenage Pakistani Girl is never going to be a "Instant Ratings" surety on American TV.
Evidence, please - specifically, provide links with numerical data that supports your claim. If you cannot, then tell me, and everyone else here, why we should consider the comparison legitimately serious and not troll bait which you are known for. An underperformer is an underperformer. You can try to justify why all you like, but the end result is the numbers, and for Ms. Marvel they were just not good. By that logic, Breaking Bad should've been canceled after S1...so should the Wire as well, and 24 during its first season, and Arrested Development, and Freaks and Geeks.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 6, 2023 20:32:59 GMT
The Marvels is accused of doing that some "old stuff", so apparently the fans do see that as outdated and wouldn't like it in those movies if they came out today. I didn’t ask about imaginary “fans”. YOU called them outdated. YOU. Why do YOU say they’re outdated? I was going with what the "fans" have been saying, merely recognized that these things they complain about were in Phases 1 and 2. Therefore, movies from those Phases wouldn't do well today either.
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Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
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Post by Sam Raimi on Dec 6, 2023 21:52:58 GMT
I didn’t ask about imaginary “fans”. YOU called them outdated. YOU. Why do YOU say they’re outdated? I was going with what the "fans" have been saying, merely recognized that these things they complain about were in Phases 1 and 2. Therefore, movies from those Phases wouldn't do well today either. What? No you weren’t. You called them mediocre and even went as far as to say it made you sad. I’m really starting to question your sanity here.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Dec 7, 2023 1:22:18 GMT
Evidence, please - specifically, provide links with numerical data that supports your claim. If you cannot, then tell me, and everyone else here, why we should consider the comparison legitimately serious and not troll bait which you are known for. An underperformer is an underperformer. You can try to justify why all you like, but the end result is the numbers, and for Ms. Marvel they were just not good. By that logic, Breaking Bad should've been canceled after S1...so should the Wire as well, and 24 during its first season, and Arrested Development, and Freaks and Geeks.
But I didn't argue that Ms. Marvel will be cancelled, I said it didn't do well in streaming and on television, and evidently the movie she is one of the leads in is a financial disappointment. I also did not argue quality, as I have stated before I quite liked the first season of Ms. Marvel, but my enjoyment of it doesn't make me blind to the reality that streaming, and ratings numbers point to. I appreciate the video, but it didn't present the numbers, nor did you mention the numbers to Ms. Marvel for proper comparison.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 7, 2023 2:01:02 GMT
I was going with what the "fans" have been saying, merely recognized that these things they complain about were in Phases 1 and 2. Therefore, movies from those Phases wouldn't do well today either. What? No you weren’t. You called them mediocre and even went as far as to say it made you sad. I’m really starting to question your sanity here. I do think a lot of Phases 1 and 2 were ultimately pretty mediocre. It makes me sad given the sadistic backlash this movie got that it means those films would've bombed now too.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 7, 2023 2:01:48 GMT
By that logic, Breaking Bad should've been canceled after S1...so should the Wire as well, and 24 during its first season, and Arrested Development, and Freaks and Geeks.
But I didn't argue that Ms. Marvel will be cancelled, I said it didn't do well in streaming and on television, and evidentially the movie she is one of the leads in is a financial disappointment. I also did not argue quality, as I have stated before I quite liked the first season of Ms. Marvel, but my enjoyment of it doesn't make me blind to the reality that streaming, and ratings numbers point to. I appreciate the video, but it didn't present the numbers, nor did you mention the numbers to Ms. Marvel for proper comparison. And I'm saying that the same thing happened to all those shows too, didn't stop them from getting renewed.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Dec 7, 2023 6:27:44 GMT
But I didn't argue that Ms. Marvel will be cancelled, I said it didn't do well in streaming and on television, and evidentially the movie she is one of the leads in is a financial disappointment. I also did not argue quality, as I have stated before I quite liked the first season of Ms. Marvel, but my enjoyment of it doesn't make me blind to the reality that streaming, and ratings numbers point to. I appreciate the video, but it didn't present the numbers, nor did you mention the numbers to Ms. Marvel for proper comparison. And I'm saying that the same thing happened to all those shows too, didn't stop them from getting renewed. *Yawns* you pulled the same trick months ago when Secret Invasion was airing. I wasn't impressed then; and I am not now. This nonsense has been going on for 11 pages, I think you have had your fun.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 7, 2023 15:22:26 GMT
Likе lambs to a slaughter This dance nevеr ends
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 7, 2023 15:35:08 GMT
And I'm saying that the same thing happened to all those shows too, didn't stop them from getting renewed. *Yawns* you pulled the same trick months ago when Secret Invasion was airing. I wasn't impressed then; and I am not now. This nonsense has been going on for 11 pages, I think you have had your fun. Then explain to me why "Under the Dome" kept getting renewed.
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Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
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Post by Sam Raimi on Dec 7, 2023 18:06:53 GMT
What? No you weren’t. You called them mediocre and even went as far as to say it made you sad. I’m really starting to question your sanity here. I do think a lot of Phases 1 and 2 were ultimately pretty mediocre. It makes me sad given the sadistic backlash this movie got that it means those films would've bombed now too. So, if I’m understanding you correctly you’re saying that the MCU has always been “mediocre”, and by saying it’s “dated” you are not implying that the newest installments are better or modern but rather still of the same quality, therefore the entire thing must be dated because fans no longer like it? Is this accurate?
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 7, 2023 20:29:44 GMT
I do think a lot of Phases 1 and 2 were ultimately pretty mediocre. It makes me sad given the sadistic backlash this movie got that it means those films would've bombed now too. So, if I’m understanding you correctly you’re saying that the MCU has always been “mediocre”, and by saying it’s “dated” you are not implying that the newest installments are better or modern but rather still of the same quality, therefore the entire thing must be dated because fans no longer like it? Is this accurate? Some are the similar quality to the prior movies, though really most of Phase 4 was of higher quality. They didn't appeal to certain folks who get mad anytime anything deviates from the Norm.
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Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
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Post by Sam Raimi on Dec 7, 2023 21:13:15 GMT
So, if I’m understanding you correctly you’re saying that the MCU has always been “mediocre”, and by saying it’s “dated” you are not implying that the newest installments are better or modern but rather still of the same quality, therefore the entire thing must be dated because fans no longer like it? Is this accurate? Some are the similar quality to the prior movies, though really most of Phase 4 was of higher quality. They didn't appeal to certain folks who get mad anytime anything deviates from the Norm. So you think Phase Four is better than Phase 1-2? Is this accurate? In what ways do you think Phase 4 is an improvement on previous phases? You referred to 1-2 as outdated but you have yet to explain how.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 7, 2023 21:45:26 GMT
Some are the similar quality to the prior movies, though really most of Phase 4 was of higher quality. They didn't appeal to certain folks who get mad anytime anything deviates from the Norm. So you think Phase Four is better than Phase 1-2? Is this accurate? In what ways do you think Phase 4 is an improvement on previous phases? You referred to 1-2 as outdated but you have yet to explain how. Yes, I do. I thought the D+ shows were all better in terms of characterization than most of the Phase 1 and 2 movies, plotting a bit better as well. More willing to push the enveloped.
Most of Phases 1 and 2 didn't go very far with character building, overall characterization. Backwards portrayal of women and nonwhites as well.
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