Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
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Post by Sam Raimi on Dec 7, 2023 22:19:58 GMT
So you think Phase Four is better than Phase 1-2? Is this accurate? In what ways do you think Phase 4 is an improvement on previous phases? You referred to 1-2 as outdated but you have yet to explain how. Yes, I do. I thought the D+ shows were all better in terms of characterization than most of the Phase 1 and 2 movies, plotting a bit better as well. More willing to push the enveloped.
Most of Phases 1 and 2 didn't go very far with character building, overall characterization. Backwards portrayal of women and nonwhites as well.
Well at least that’s a straight answer. I won’t give you a hard time for posting an actual opinion instead of your usual schtick.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 8, 2023 13:07:47 GMT
Yes, I do. I thought the D+ shows were all better in terms of characterization than most of the Phase 1 and 2 movies, plotting a bit better as well. More willing to push the enveloped.
Most of Phases 1 and 2 didn't go very far with character building, overall characterization. Backwards portrayal of women and nonwhites as well.
Well at least that’s a straight answer. I won’t give you a hard time for posting an actual opinion instead of your usual schtick. This is perhaps the best example of trolling on his part so far, and that's saying something. The shows were all better in terms of characterization? Secret Invasion made absolutely no sense from start to finish, even less so when you consider its thematic absence from The Marvels. She-Hulk was one big (hopefully non-canon) in joke. Generally speaking, a show should have more characterization considering its runtime compared to a film. But these shows in particular were unwatchable garbage. He's a guy who hates Marvel, pretending to be the ultimate Marvel fan in his own mind, that's why his posts are so nonsensical. Look at the comment about 'backwards portrayal of women and non-whites.' He thinks Marvel movies are too 'woke,' so he's pretending to be Captain Woke because that's what a MCU fan must be in his mind. Black Widow, Peggy Carter, Maria Hill, Pepper Potts, Jane Foster were backwards? Nick Fury, Falcon, Rhodey, Heimdall were backwards? Those are just examples off the top of my head.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 8, 2023 17:24:46 GMT
Guys...I'm worried about the MCU. I don't think it will survive Grand Theft Auto 6...
I think it needs a reboot...
Preferably with Rockstar Games...
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Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
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Post by Sam Raimi on Dec 8, 2023 19:09:22 GMT
Well at least that’s a straight answer. I won’t give you a hard time for posting an actual opinion instead of your usual schtick. This is perhaps the best example of trolling on his part so far, and that's saying something. The shows were all better in terms of characterization? Secret Invasion made absolutely no sense from start to finish, even less so when you consider its thematic absence from The Marvels. She-Hulk was one big (hopefully non-canon) in joke. Generally speaking, a show should have more characterization considering its runtime compared to a film. But these shows in particular were unwatchable garbage. He's a guy who hates Marvel, pretending to be the ultimate Marvel fan in his own mind, that's why his posts are so nonsensical. Look at the comment about 'backwards portrayal of women and non-whites.' He thinks Marvel movies are too 'woke,' so he's pretending to be Captain Woke because that's what a MCU fan must be in his mind. Black Widow, Peggy Carter, Maria Hill, Pepper Potts, Jane Foster were backwards? Nick Fury, Falcon, Rhodey, Heimdall were backwards? Those are just examples off the top of my head. I absolutely disagree with his opinion there but I was at least pleased not to see some shit about “the fans” or his usual incomprehensible rhetoric. Now I’m thinking you are probably right about him though.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 9, 2023 1:44:50 GMT
Well at least that’s a straight answer. I won’t give you a hard time for posting an actual opinion instead of your usual schtick. This is perhaps the best example of trolling on his part so far, and that's saying something. The shows were all better in terms of characterization? Secret Invasion made absolutely no sense from start to finish, even less so when you consider its thematic absence from The Marvels. She-Hulk was one big (hopefully non-canon) in joke. Generally speaking, a show should have more characterization considering its runtime compared to a film. But these shows in particular were unwatchable garbage. He's a guy who hates Marvel, pretending to be the ultimate Marvel fan in his own mind, that's why his posts are so nonsensical. Look at the comment about 'backwards portrayal of women and non-whites.' He thinks Marvel movies are too 'woke,' so he's pretending to be Captain Woke because that's what a MCU fan must be in his mind. Black Widow, Peggy Carter, Maria Hill, Pepper Potts, Jane Foster were backwards? Nick Fury, Falcon, Rhodey, Heimdall were backwards? Those are just examples off the top of my head. Secret Invasion was supposed to be after the Marvels, in fact the Skrulls being driven from that Refuge world was supposed to be the setup for Secret Invasion.
And it still made as much sense as most of Phases 1 and 2.
She-Hulk is no more a joke than Deadpool. Or Seinfeld.
Natasha was frequently oversexed and underwritten, until Endgame...where she died. Peggy similarly wasn't given proper prominence. Maria and Pepper were never more than secondaries.
Jane got better once they gave her a real story in Love and Thunder.
Fury was too much in the background most of the time, Falcon and Rhodey were underwritten, Heimdell was more a plot device than a character.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 9, 2023 13:42:10 GMT
This is perhaps the best example of trolling on his part so far, and that's saying something. The shows were all better in terms of characterization? Secret Invasion made absolutely no sense from start to finish, even less so when you consider its thematic absence from The Marvels. She-Hulk was one big (hopefully non-canon) in joke. Generally speaking, a show should have more characterization considering its runtime compared to a film. But these shows in particular were unwatchable garbage. He's a guy who hates Marvel, pretending to be the ultimate Marvel fan in his own mind, that's why his posts are so nonsensical. Look at the comment about 'backwards portrayal of women and non-whites.' He thinks Marvel movies are too 'woke,' so he's pretending to be Captain Woke because that's what a MCU fan must be in his mind. Black Widow, Peggy Carter, Maria Hill, Pepper Potts, Jane Foster were backwards? Nick Fury, Falcon, Rhodey, Heimdall were backwards? Those are just examples off the top of my head. Secret Invasion was supposed to be after the Marvels, in fact the Skrulls being driven from that Refuge world was supposed to be the setup for Secret Invasion.
And it still made as much sense as most of Phases 1 and 2.
She-Hulk is no more a joke than Deadpool. Or Seinfeld.
Natasha was frequently oversexed and underwritten, until Endgame...where she died. Peggy similarly wasn't given proper prominence. Maria and Pepper were never more than secondaries.
Jane got better once they gave her a real story in Love and Thunder.
Fury was too much in the background most of the time, Falcon and Rhodey were underwritten, Heimdell was more a plot device than a character.
Secret Invasion makes even less sense when you look at it this way. Fury was just here after the events of the Marvels, SI treats it like he's this broken old man that nobody has seen for years. He's completely out of touch and in over his head from the word go, which isn't the Fury that is presented in The Marvels. What do the Fox Deadpool movies and Seinfeld have to do with the MCU? Natasha was written as someone Tony would see as a sex kitten in Iron Man 2, and that was turned on its head by the end of the movie. She was never treated like that again, and you know it. I agree she was underwritten, but so was Banner/Hulk. Maria, Peggy and Pepper are supporting characters. Should they have made a Happy Hogan movie, too? Love and Thunder was a terrible film, but agreed there wasn't much to work with before that. Fury is as prominent a character in this franchise as anyone who isn't a full-fledged member of the team. Falcon and Rhodey were not underwritten, they were supporting characters who were built up over time. Rhodey doesn't even become a superhero until the second IM movie. That's what you would call character development in any other argument. If Heimdall is a plot device, so are the rest of the Asgardians. You sat and stared at the screen for a while, but you couldn't come up with anything for Heimdall, could you?
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 9, 2023 15:48:32 GMT
Secret Invasion was supposed to be after the Marvels, in fact the Skrulls being driven from that Refuge world was supposed to be the setup for Secret Invasion.
And it still made as much sense as most of Phases 1 and 2.
She-Hulk is no more a joke than Deadpool. Or Seinfeld.
Natasha was frequently oversexed and underwritten, until Endgame...where she died. Peggy similarly wasn't given proper prominence. Maria and Pepper were never more than secondaries.
Jane got better once they gave her a real story in Love and Thunder.
Fury was too much in the background most of the time, Falcon and Rhodey were underwritten, Heimdell was more a plot device than a character.
Secret Invasion makes even less sense when you look at it this way. Fury was just here after the events of the Marvels, SI treats it like he's this broken old man that nobody has seen for years. He's completely out of touch and in over his head from the word go, which isn't the Fury that is presented in The Marvels. What do the Fox Deadpool movies and Seinfeld have to do with the MCU? Natasha was written as someone Tony would see as a sex kitten in Iron Man 2, and that was turned on its head by the end of the movie. She was never treated like that again, and you know it. I agree she was underwritten, but so was Banner/Hulk. Maria, Peggy and Pepper are supporting characters. Should they have made a Happy Hogan movie, too? Love and Thunder was a terrible film, but agreed there wasn't much to work with before that. Fury is as prominent a character in this franchise as anyone who isn't a full-fledged member of the team. Falcon and Rhodey were not underwritten, they were supporting characters who were built up over time. Rhodey doesn't even become a superhero until the second IM movie. That's what you would call character development in any other argument. If Heimdall is a plot device, so are the rest of the Asgardians. You sat and stared at the screen for a while, but you couldn't come up with anything for Heimdall, could you? Aside from classified people on the space station, which was destroyed, no one on Earth HAS seen him. He's been up there since at least "Far From Home" if not longer till he came crashing back to Earth.
She-Hulk's humor. If you can tolerate it with them, you can tolerate it with her.
She was treated that way in Avengers as well (except she had Joss Whedon to give her more depth), then in Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron especially.
Yes, Banner was underwritten too.
Peggy proved she could be more than a secondary love interest. But we didn't get real female leads until 2019 so it's 11 years of wasted potential.
Lady Thor proved Jane had more to offer and they should've been building to that storyline for her since Dark World.
Falcon and Rhodey were underwritten, should have gotten more prominence sooner than they did and outgrown their secondary roles sooner.
They were, Valkyrie was better done in 1 movie than Hemdell and the Warriors 3 and Sif were in like, 3.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 10, 2023 3:50:53 GMT
Secret Invasion makes even less sense when you look at it this way. Fury was just here after the events of the Marvels, SI treats it like he's this broken old man that nobody has seen for years. He's completely out of touch and in over his head from the word go, which isn't the Fury that is presented in The Marvels. What do the Fox Deadpool movies and Seinfeld have to do with the MCU? Natasha was written as someone Tony would see as a sex kitten in Iron Man 2, and that was turned on its head by the end of the movie. She was never treated like that again, and you know it. I agree she was underwritten, but so was Banner/Hulk. Maria, Peggy and Pepper are supporting characters. Should they have made a Happy Hogan movie, too? Love and Thunder was a terrible film, but agreed there wasn't much to work with before that. Fury is as prominent a character in this franchise as anyone who isn't a full-fledged member of the team. Falcon and Rhodey were not underwritten, they were supporting characters who were built up over time. Rhodey doesn't even become a superhero until the second IM movie. That's what you would call character development in any other argument. If Heimdall is a plot device, so are the rest of the Asgardians. You sat and stared at the screen for a while, but you couldn't come up with anything for Heimdall, could you? Aside from classified people on the space station, which was destroyed, no one on Earth HAS seen him. He's been up there since at least "Far From Home" if not longer till he came crashing back to Earth.
She-Hulk's humor. If you can tolerate it with them, you can tolerate it with her.
She was treated that way in Avengers as well (except she had Joss Whedon to give her more depth), then in Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron especially.
Yes, Banner was underwritten too.
Peggy proved she could be more than a secondary love interest. But we didn't get real female leads until 2019 so it's 11 years of wasted potential.
Lady Thor proved Jane had more to offer and they should've been building to that storyline for her since Dark World.
Falcon and Rhodey were underwritten, should have gotten more prominence sooner than they did and outgrown their secondary roles sooner.
They were, Valkyrie was better done in 1 movie than Hemdell and the Warriors 3 and Sif were in like, 3.
The audience has seen him, genius. I'm talking about the way Fury was portrayed. He was old, tired, out of touch. Seemed clueless. That's not the guy who was portrayed in The Marvels. It makes no sense. Why are you comparing non-MCU comedies to She-Hulk in an attempt to prove how well She-Hulk fits into the MCU? BW was not treated that way in Avengers at all. She projects vulnerability to dupe overconfident men into feeding her information. She does it intentionally, more than once. You're dead wrong. They gave Peggy her own show, which is kind of crazy considering it's an irrelevant prequel. But I agree it took them far too long to have female leads and do more with their characters to begin with. Real 'fans' know why-- Ike Perlmutter. Falcon and Rhodey weren't underwritten no matter how many times you say it. Rhodey is often virtually an antagonist for Tony throughout his films, as he's more the military man to Tony's maverick persona. Where do you think they should've squeezed in a Falcon movie, and do you think that would've been better than Black Panther? Can you explain how Heimdall is a plot device? Can you explain which part of the plot is driven by Heimdall?
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 11, 2023 0:03:28 GMT
Aside from classified people on the space station, which was destroyed, no one on Earth HAS seen him. He's been up there since at least "Far From Home" if not longer till he came crashing back to Earth.
She-Hulk's humor. If you can tolerate it with them, you can tolerate it with her.
She was treated that way in Avengers as well (except she had Joss Whedon to give her more depth), then in Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron especially.
Yes, Banner was underwritten too.
Peggy proved she could be more than a secondary love interest. But we didn't get real female leads until 2019 so it's 11 years of wasted potential.
Lady Thor proved Jane had more to offer and they should've been building to that storyline for her since Dark World.
Falcon and Rhodey were underwritten, should have gotten more prominence sooner than they did and outgrown their secondary roles sooner.
They were, Valkyrie was better done in 1 movie than Hemdell and the Warriors 3 and Sif were in like, 3.
The audience has seen him, genius. I'm talking about the way Fury was portrayed. He was old, tired, out of touch. Seemed clueless. That's not the guy who was portrayed in The Marvels. It makes no sense. Why are you comparing non-MCU comedies to She-Hulk in an attempt to prove how well She-Hulk fits into the MCU? BW was not treated that way in Avengers at all. She projects vulnerability to dupe overconfident men into feeding her information. She does it intentionally, more than once. You're dead wrong. They gave Peggy her own show, which is kind of crazy considering it's an irrelevant prequel. But I agree it took them far too long to have female leads and do more with their characters to begin with. Real 'fans' know why-- Ike Perlmutter. Falcon and Rhodey weren't underwritten no matter how many times you say it. Rhodey is often virtually an antagonist for Tony throughout his films, as he's more the military man to Tony's maverick persona. Where do you think they should've squeezed in a Falcon movie, and do you think that would've been better than Black Panther? Can you explain how Heimdall is a plot device? Can you explain which part of the plot is driven by Heimdall? He had been in outer space for years, wasn't used to being on Earth again, was out of practice doing field work. He wasn't doing stuff in The Marvels like what he did in SI.
Because she's always been a comedic character with their style of humor, not a normal Marvel character.
She was, still oversexed and until Whedon did that scene where Loki does the Hannibal thing with her we never got much characterization or depth from her.
So we agree, too long.
Not give them movies, just given them meatier roles and more characterization on par with the leads.
He's just there to be the Bifrost Guardian, gets little character beyond that. Especially compared to Valkyrie
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 11, 2023 0:08:57 GMT
The audience has seen him, genius. I'm talking about the way Fury was portrayed. He was old, tired, out of touch. Seemed clueless. That's not the guy who was portrayed in The Marvels. It makes no sense. Why are you comparing non-MCU comedies to She-Hulk in an attempt to prove how well She-Hulk fits into the MCU? BW was not treated that way in Avengers at all. She projects vulnerability to dupe overconfident men into feeding her information. She does it intentionally, more than once. You're dead wrong. They gave Peggy her own show, which is kind of crazy considering it's an irrelevant prequel. But I agree it took them far too long to have female leads and do more with their characters to begin with. Real 'fans' know why-- Ike Perlmutter. Falcon and Rhodey weren't underwritten no matter how many times you say it. Rhodey is often virtually an antagonist for Tony throughout his films, as he's more the military man to Tony's maverick persona. Where do you think they should've squeezed in a Falcon movie, and do you think that would've been better than Black Panther? Can you explain how Heimdall is a plot device? Can you explain which part of the plot is driven by Heimdall? He had been in outer space for years, wasn't used to being on Earth again, was out of practice doing field work. He wasn't doing stuff in The Marvels like what he did in SI.
Because she's always been a comedic character with their style of humor, not a normal Marvel character.
She was, still oversexed and until Whedon did that scene where Loki does the Hannibal thing with her we never got much characterization or depth from her.
So we agree, too long.
Not give them movies, just given them meatier roles and more characterization on par with the leads.
He's just there to be the Bifrost Guardian, gets little character beyond that. Especially compared to Valkyrie
He was tired and broken down, it made no sense. I've already addressed all of these points and proved them wrong, you're just talking in circles to keep the argument going because you're a loser. You also apparently don't know what a plot device is, not that I'm surprised.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 11, 2023 2:02:33 GMT
He had been in outer space for years, wasn't used to being on Earth again, was out of practice doing field work. He wasn't doing stuff in The Marvels like what he did in SI.
Because she's always been a comedic character with their style of humor, not a normal Marvel character.
She was, still oversexed and until Whedon did that scene where Loki does the Hannibal thing with her we never got much characterization or depth from her.
So we agree, too long.
Not give them movies, just given them meatier roles and more characterization on par with the leads.
He's just there to be the Bifrost Guardian, gets little character beyond that. Especially compared to Valkyrie
He was tired and broken down, it made no sense. I've already addressed all of these points and proved them wrong, you're just talking in circles to keep the argument going because you're a loser. You also apparently don't know what a plot device is, not that I'm surprised. Coming back to Earth after being in space for a long would have that effect on a normal human. And no, while everyone treated him that way he wasn't tired and broken down.
You didn't disprove any of that.
There are living plot device characters too.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 11, 2023 2:43:34 GMT
He was tired and broken down, it made no sense. I've already addressed all of these points and proved them wrong, you're just talking in circles to keep the argument going because you're a loser. You also apparently don't know what a plot device is, not that I'm surprised. Coming back to Earth after being in space for a long would have that effect on a normal human. And no, while everyone treated him that way he wasn't tired and broken down.
You didn't disprove any of that.
There are living plot device characters too.
You still don't know what a plot device is. Thanks man, it's been fun.
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