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Post by moviemouth on Sept 11, 2023 7:03:33 GMT
Thought this would be an interesting subject with Halloween being next month.
I have only read one of King's novels and that was when I was a kid. Not a big reader because I have a poor memory and ADHD, so novels are tough for me.
I have looked into details of his novels though for context after watching his movies though.
From Wikipedia.
In the novel, It claims that its true name is Robert "Bob" Gray, but decided to be named “It”. Throughout the book, It is generally referred to as male, usually appearing as Pennywise. The Losers come to believe It may be female after seeing it in the form of a monstrous giant spider that lays eggs. However, It's true appearance is briefly observed by Bill Denbrough via the Ritual of Chüd as a mass of swirling destructive orange lights known as "deadlights", which inflict insanity or death on any living being that sees them directly. The only person to survive the ordeal is Bill's wife Audra Phillips, although she is rendered temporarily catatonic by the experience.
Its natural enemy is the "Space Turtle" or "Maturin", another ancient dweller of King's "Macroverse" who, eons ago, created the known universe and possibly others by vomiting them out as the result of a stomachache. The Turtle appears again in King's The Dark Tower series. One of the novels in the series, Wizard and Glass, suggests that It, along with the Turtle, are themselves creations of a separate, omnipotent creator referred to as "the Other" (possibly Gan, who is said to have created the various universes where King's novels take place).
Side observation - it seems then that King was pulling from different creation myths for the novel IT, most closely ideas related to Hinduism I think.
In Dreamcatcher the movie the name of the alien is referred to as "Mr. Gray" therefor implying that the alien in Dreamcatcher is another form of IT. Also when mentally challenged Donnie Whalberg shows his true form in order to fight the evil alien he sort of looks like a reptilian alien.
I have also heard speculation that IT comes from the same dimension as the creatures in The Mist.
Also if someone can answer this I would appreciate it. Does it mention that IT's true form is orange lights in It: Chapter 2 (2019). I do also recall them mentioning a turtle at one part. I didn't like the movie overall, so I haven't bothered re-watching it.
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forca85
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Post by forca85 on Sept 11, 2023 20:49:54 GMT
I have "Dreamcatcher" in a Stephen King set. It had a good cast. But the premise was a mess. Basically Farting Aliens using Hosts. Oh! And also an MRDD person too... Because augh. Yeah. I've never had the urge to watch it again. And I have no idea if the Book is any better.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 11, 2023 22:07:19 GMT
I have "Dreamcatcher" in a Stephen King set. It had a good cast. But the premise was a mess. Basically Farting Aliens using Hosts. Oh! And also an MRDD person too... Because augh. Yeah. I've never had the urge to watch it again. And I have no idea if the Book is any better. Dreamcatcher is a guilty pleasure for me. I have watched it a handful of times. |
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Post by masterofallgoons on Sept 12, 2023 14:17:50 GMT
If I recall correctly the 'true form' in It Chapter 2 was also just the big spider with no real allusions to the cosmic/abstract nature of it. That movie kinda sucked in general, and a lot of the changes and differences from the book were weak, but one of the biggest missed opportunities was not visualizing or portraying that ending scene any better than the 90s miniseries. In the book this is an ethereal experience happening beyond just the underground tunnels. There's a whole cosmic/psychic thing going on that really could've worked on screen had they at least tried to do it.
On the other hand it could've been really cheesey and stupid like Dreamcatcher. It's a matter of doing it the right way. Like Dreamcatcher has a lot of the same imagery with regard to the 'astral plane' and making the abstract idea of entering the mind a physical reality as Doctor Sleep. But Flannagan is just so much better at putting it on screen and conceptualizing it in a way that make sense and works for the tone... then again, while Doctor Sleep one of his best books, Flanagan is still working from a much better source than Kasdan was. Dreamcatcher sucks.
The Bob Grey thing does sorta come up in It Chapter 2. It's a passing comment in the novel I think, but there's a brief scene in the 2nd movie where you see a poster of a old circus performer that clearly looks like Pennywise and then we see that guy in his tent or something later on. I don't remember the context, but it seems to be a reference to that and suggest, similarly to the suggestion in the book, that this entity stole the identity of a performer decades ago and has stayed in this clown persona that maybe once belonged to an actual person named Bob Grey... but I haven't read the book or seen that movie in a while.
The turtle stuff sure sounds fucking nuts when you take it out of its context...but who are we kidding? It's crazy in its context too. I'm not surprised that nobody tried to visualize that part. I understand that a lot of these elements overlap in other stories, but I haven't read any of the Dark Tower books. I have the first two on my desk. Maybe I'll dig into them soon.
If you have only read one Stephen King book because you have a hard time concentrating then It was certainly an intense one to choose! It's like 1200 pages!
I have some of the same issues with ADD and concentration, but I've been trying to power through and read more in recent years. Have you tried reading his short stories? That might work for you like it has for me. They're some of his absolute best work (and also some of his worst) and are a little more digestible than huge sprawling novels like It and The Stand.
Also, audiobooks have been a nice approach for me. It doesn't always work to keep me engaged more than a novel, but I find it easier to go back and listen than to go back and read if I missed something, and I can obviously listen while I'm doing other things at times when I wouldn't be able to sit and read. I just finished the audiobook of Eyes of the Dragon by Stephen King, which was far from a great work of literature, but was an entertaining listen as read by Bronson Pinchot.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Sept 12, 2023 15:58:32 GMT
If I recall correctly the 'true form' in It Chapter 2 was also just the big spider with no real allusions to the cosmic/abstract nature of it. That movie kinda sucked in general, and a lot of the changes and differences from the book were weak, but one of the biggest missed opportunities was not visualizing or portraying that ending scene any better than the 90s miniseries. In the book this is an ethereal experience happening beyond just the underground tunnels. There's a whole cosmic/psychic thing going on that really could've worked on screen had they at least tried to do it. On the other hand it could've been really cheesey and stupid like Dreamcatcher. It's a matter of doing it the right way. Like Dreamcatcher has a lot of the same imagery with regard to the 'astral plane' and making the abstract idea of entering the mind a physical reality as Doctor Sleep. But Flannagan is just so much better at putting it on screen and conceptualizing it in a way that make sense and works for the tone... then again, while Doctor Sleep one of his best books, Flanagan is still working from a much better source than Kasdan was. Dreamcatcher sucks. The Bob Grey thing does sorta come up in It Chapter 2. It's a passing comment in the novel I think, but there's a brief scene in the 2nd movie where you see a poster of a old circus performer that clearly looks like Pennywise and then we see that guy in his tent or something later on. I don't remember the context, but it seems to be a reference to that and suggest, similarly to the suggestion in the book, that this entity stole the identity of a performer decades ago and has stayed in this clown persona that maybe once belonged to an actual person named Bob Grey... but I haven't read the book or seen that movie in a while. The turtle stuff sure sounds fucking nuts when you take it out of its context...but who are we kidding? It's crazy in its context too. I'm not surprised that nobody tried to visualize that part. I understand that a lot of these elements overlap in other stories, but I haven't read any of the Dark Tower books. I have the first two on my desk. Maybe I'll dig into them soon. If you have only read one Stephen King book because you have a hard time concentrating then It was certainly an intense one to choose! It's like 1200 pages! I have some of the same issues with ADD and concentration, but I've been trying to power through and read more in recent years. Have you tried reading his short stories? That might work for you like it has for me. They're some of his absolute best work (and also some of his worst) and are a little more digestible than huge sprawling novels like It and The Stand. Also, audiobooks have been a nice approach for me. It doesn't always work to keep me engaged more than a novel, but I find it easier to go back and listen than to go back and read if I missed something, and I can obviously listen while I'm doing other things at times when I wouldn't be able to sit and read. I just finished the audiobook of Eyes of the Dragon by Stephen King, which was far from a great work of literature, but was an entertaining listen as read by Bronson Pinchot. I'd also add that while the turtle doesn't show up in the movies I believe there are some minor references here and there. I think there are cans of turtle wax and other turtle toys and stuff like that in the background of different shots scattered throughout both movies. I can only remember one moment specifally, which is the opening sequences where Georgie is in the basement, but I think there are others. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2023 20:25:19 GMT
Both pretty rubbish if you ask me.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 13, 2023 3:29:12 GMT
If I recall correctly the 'true form' in It Chapter 2 was also just the big spider with no real allusions to the cosmic/abstract nature of it. That movie kinda sucked in general, and a lot of the changes and differences from the book were weak, but one of the biggest missed opportunities was not visualizing or portraying that ending scene any better than the 90s miniseries. In the book this is an ethereal experience happening beyond just the underground tunnels. There's a whole cosmic/psychic thing going on that really could've worked on screen had they at least tried to do it. On the other hand it could've been really cheesey and stupid like Dreamcatcher. It's a matter of doing it the right way. Like Dreamcatcher has a lot of the same imagery with regard to the 'astral plane' and making the abstract idea of entering the mind a physical reality as Doctor Sleep. But Flannagan is just so much better at putting it on screen and conceptualizing it in a way that make sense and works for the tone... then again, while Doctor Sleep one of his best books, Flanagan is still working from a much better source than Kasdan was. Dreamcatcher sucks. The Bob Grey thing does sorta come up in It Chapter 2. It's a passing comment in the novel I think, but there's a brief scene in the 2nd movie where you see a poster of a old circus performer that clearly looks like Pennywise and then we see that guy in his tent or something later on. I don't remember the context, but it seems to be a reference to that and suggest, similarly to the suggestion in the book, that this entity stole the identity of a performer decades ago and has stayed in this clown persona that maybe once belonged to an actual person named Bob Grey... but I haven't read the book or seen that movie in a while. The turtle stuff sure sounds fucking nuts when you take it out of its context...but who are we kidding? It's crazy in its context too. I'm not surprised that nobody tried to visualize that part. I understand that a lot of these elements overlap in other stories, but I haven't read any of the Dark Tower books. I have the first two on my desk. Maybe I'll dig into them soon. If you have only read one Stephen King book because you have a hard time concentrating then It was certainly an intense one to choose! It's like 1200 pages! I have some of the same issues with ADD and concentration, but I've been trying to power through and read more in recent years. Have you tried reading his short stories? That might work for you like it has for me. They're some of his absolute best work (and also some of his worst) and are a little more digestible than huge sprawling novels like It and The Stand. Also, audiobooks have been a nice approach for me. It doesn't always work to keep me engaged more than a novel, but I find it easier to go back and listen than to go back and read if I missed something, and I can obviously listen while I'm doing other things at times when I wouldn't be able to sit and read. I just finished the audiobook of Eyes of the Dragon by Stephen King, which was far from a great work of literature, but was an entertaining listen as read by Bronson Pinchot. Dreamcatcher is cheesy and a bit nonsensical, but I enjoy it for what it is. I actually find some of it quite creepy and I think the characters are entertaining. It is hard to describe why I don't like reading fiction or listening to audiobooks of fiction aside from my ADD. I am much more likely to listen to stuff or read books about some real life subject, like history. All this stuff also gets in the way of my movie watching and TV watching time, which is my main interest in life. I often start novels and then get bored. I do read some short stories because they aren't long enough to start getting on my patience. One I read was "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" which I like quite a bit better than the movie Total Recall (1990). |
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Post by masterofallgoons on Sept 13, 2023 21:01:18 GMT
If I recall correctly the 'true form' in It Chapter 2 was also just the big spider with no real allusions to the cosmic/abstract nature of it. That movie kinda sucked in general, and a lot of the changes and differences from the book were weak, but one of the biggest missed opportunities was not visualizing or portraying that ending scene any better than the 90s miniseries. In the book this is an ethereal experience happening beyond just the underground tunnels. There's a whole cosmic/psychic thing going on that really could've worked on screen had they at least tried to do it. On the other hand it could've been really cheesey and stupid like Dreamcatcher. It's a matter of doing it the right way. Like Dreamcatcher has a lot of the same imagery with regard to the 'astral plane' and making the abstract idea of entering the mind a physical reality as Doctor Sleep. But Flannagan is just so much better at putting it on screen and conceptualizing it in a way that make sense and works for the tone... then again, while Doctor Sleep one of his best books, Flanagan is still working from a much better source than Kasdan was. Dreamcatcher sucks. The Bob Grey thing does sorta come up in It Chapter 2. It's a passing comment in the novel I think, but there's a brief scene in the 2nd movie where you see a poster of a old circus performer that clearly looks like Pennywise and then we see that guy in his tent or something later on. I don't remember the context, but it seems to be a reference to that and suggest, similarly to the suggestion in the book, that this entity stole the identity of a performer decades ago and has stayed in this clown persona that maybe once belonged to an actual person named Bob Grey... but I haven't read the book or seen that movie in a while. The turtle stuff sure sounds fucking nuts when you take it out of its context...but who are we kidding? It's crazy in its context too. I'm not surprised that nobody tried to visualize that part. I understand that a lot of these elements overlap in other stories, but I haven't read any of the Dark Tower books. I have the first two on my desk. Maybe I'll dig into them soon. If you have only read one Stephen King book because you have a hard time concentrating then It was certainly an intense one to choose! It's like 1200 pages! I have some of the same issues with ADD and concentration, but I've been trying to power through and read more in recent years. Have you tried reading his short stories? That might work for you like it has for me. They're some of his absolute best work (and also some of his worst) and are a little more digestible than huge sprawling novels like It and The Stand. Also, audiobooks have been a nice approach for me. It doesn't always work to keep me engaged more than a novel, but I find it easier to go back and listen than to go back and read if I missed something, and I can obviously listen while I'm doing other things at times when I wouldn't be able to sit and read. I just finished the audiobook of Eyes of the Dragon by Stephen King, which was far from a great work of literature, but was an entertaining listen as read by Bronson Pinchot. Dreamcatcher is cheesy and a bit nonsensical, but I enjoy it for what it is. I actually find some of it quite creepy and I think the characters are entertaining. It is hard to describe why I don't like reading fiction or listening to audiobooks of fiction aside from my ADD. I am much more likely to listen to stuff or read books about some real life subject, like history. All this stuff also gets in the way of my movie watching and TV watching time, which is my main interest in life. I often start novels and then get bored. I do read some short stories because they aren't long enough to start getting on my patience. One I read was "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" which I like quite a bit better than the movie Total Recall (1990). I can relate to that. I can read loads of nonfiction in the form of articles and such, but I really have very little interest in non-fiction books. If it's not literary I have a hard time spending that much time reading it in long-form. |
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