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Post by clusium on Feb 15, 2024 4:45:31 GMT
If there are no bodies of murdered children in those graves, then there is no evidence that any crime has been committed. It is that simple. I'm lost. With Kamloops, are we being told that bodies have been dug up and moved to more secret location? Apparently. Ask amyghost.
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Post by clusium on Feb 15, 2024 4:47:01 GMT
If there are no bodies of murdered children in those graves, then there is no evidence that any crime has been committed. It is that simple. The salient point is that we do not know for a certainty that there weren't. If there are no bodies of murdered children in those graves, then there is no evidence that any crime has been committed. It is that simple., It is not that simple. Because evidence may have been destroyed or otherwise disposed of does not mean of a necessity that no crime was committed. Until the evidence--in this case the possible missing human remains--is located and analyzed (if they exist), we cannot state without qualification that no crimes or murders occurred. And again--where are the remains of the priests, nuns, teachers, etc. who may have resided in those graves? Is the Church without any curiosity as to what may have become of them? Wrong. I highly recommend you read the book Grave Error, by C.P. Champion & Tom Flanagan. Very interesting read.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 15, 2024 5:03:46 GMT
I'm lost. With Kamloops, are we being told that bodies have been dug up and moved to more secret location? Apparently. Ask amyghost . Getting a straight answer from Amy is very difficult.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 15, 2024 12:07:26 GMT
The salient point is that we do not know for a certainty that there weren't. If there are no bodies of murdered children in those graves, then there is no evidence that any crime has been committed. It is that simple., It is not that simple. Because evidence may have been destroyed or otherwise disposed of does not mean of a necessity that no crime was committed. Until the evidence--in this case the possible missing human remains--is located and analyzed (if they exist), we cannot state without qualification that no crimes or murders occurred. And again--where are the remains of the priests, nuns, teachers, etc. who may have resided in those graves? Is the Church without any curiosity as to what may have become of them? Wrong. I highly recommend you read the book Grave Error, by C.P. Champion & Tom Flanagan. Very interesting read. No book is going to contradict the simple fact that absence of evidence does not automatically constitute evidence of an absence of possible crime. And if it does contend that then it's a poorly written work, and its authors not terribly bright. Of course, any piece of literature that tends to reaffirm confirmation bias amongst those so minded is going to be a lot more interesting to that audience than anything that might challenge it. That can be said for either side on any issue, but it tends to illuminate which side is more open to possible questioning of that narrative, as opposed to the side that's simply content to accept what they want to hear as substitute for researched fact. I'm for researching these gravesites more closely than they thus appear to have been done so far to see what answers might be yielded up. Are you? And I still have to wonder why, if any of these graves were inhabited by deceased clergy members and staff and those remains are now missing, the RCC is not more curious as to where the remains went and how they were disposed of. Catholicism puts a high premium on the treatment of mortal remains, so their seeming total silence on this appears a bit odd.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 15, 2024 12:11:40 GMT
Getting a straight answer from Amy is very difficult. The stupid always have difficulty with any thought or answer that can't be expressed in a sound bite. Preferably using words of no more than two syllables. I find that's a common trait among most Stormfront posters, BTW .
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Post by clusium on Feb 15, 2024 13:11:22 GMT
Wrong. I highly recommend you read the book Grave Error, by C.P. Champion & Tom Flanagan. Very interesting read. No book is going to contradict the simple fact that absence of evidence does not automatically constitute evidence of an absence of possible crime. And if it does contend that then it's a poorly written work, and its authors not terribly bright. Of course, any piece of literature that tends to reaffirm confirmation bias amongst those so minded is going to be a lot more interesting to that audience than anything that might challenge it. That can be said for either side on any issue, but it tends to illuminate which side is more open to possible questioning of that narrative, as opposed to the side that's simply content to accept what they want to hear as substitute for researched fact. I'm for researching these gravesites more closely than they thus appear to have been done so far to see what answers might be yielded up. Are you? And I still have to wonder why, if any of these graves were inhabited by deceased clergy members and staff and those remains are now missing, the RCC is not more curious as to where the remains went and how they were disposed of. Catholicism puts a high premium on the treatment of mortal remains, so their seeming total silence on this appears a bit odd. There WAS NO EVIDENCE OF A POSSIBLE CRIME. Just rhetoric from our politicians (who were the ones that were the architects of the residential schools in the first place) & the media. All cemeteries on the grounds of residential schools prove, is that past residents of said school had obviously died, & were buried there. Those past residents would obviously include the priests, the nuns, & even the caretakers of the school. Wouldn't you say that said literature is precisely that " anything that might challenge it"? We were all taught that the residential schools was nothing but, concentration camps for First Nations people. "Go in & you never come out again." Well, obviously that was not the case, otherwise there would be NO FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE AROUND TODAY!!!! That does not mean that NO ABUSE OCCURRED AT ALL. Obviously, there was. But, as will all groups & institutions - schools included - you had your good caregivers & you had your bad ones. The gravesites HAVE been researched & continue to be researched: No bodies of murdered children were found there. The priests, nuns, pastors, & teachers of these schools were all wrongly accused of murder.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 15, 2024 15:05:39 GMT
Wrong. I highly recommend you read the book Grave Error, by C.P. Champion & Tom Flanagan. Very interesting read. No book is going to contradict the simple fact that absence of evidence does not automatically constitute evidence of an absence of possible crime. And if it does contend that then it's a poorly written work, and its authors not terribly bright. Of course, any piece of literature that tends to reaffirm confirmation bias amongst those so minded is going to be a lot more interesting to that audience than anything that might challenge it. That can be said for either side on any issue, but it tends to illuminate which side is more open to possible questioning of that narrative, as opposed to the side that's simply content to accept what they want to hear as substitute for researched fact. I'm for researching these gravesites more closely than they thus appear to have been done so far to see what answers might be yielded up. Are you? And I still have to wonder why, if any of these graves were inhabited by deceased clergy members and staff and those remains are now missing, the RCC is not more curious as to where the remains went and how they were disposed of. Catholicism puts a high premium on the treatment of mortal remains, so their seeming total silence on this appears a bit odd. What are you specifically talking about? The "graves" in the Manitoba church basement where no dead bodies were found just as no bodies have been found anywhere in two years since the lie of 215 bodies of dead/murdered children had been found. Forensics went over that site and found nothing. Nothing in the soil. No bits of clothing or bone fragments. Nothing. They would have found something. As for Kamloops where we were all told 100% that 215 dead bodies had been found has as yet to be excavated. 215 murdered children and they still haven't sent in a team to investigate what happened. In fact, it seems they don't want the site investigated. Very strange.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 16, 2024 12:26:31 GMT
No book is going to contradict the simple fact that absence of evidence does not automatically constitute evidence of an absence of possible crime. And if it does contend that then it's a poorly written work, and its authors not terribly bright. Of course, any piece of literature that tends to reaffirm confirmation bias amongst those so minded is going to be a lot more interesting to that audience than anything that might challenge it. That can be said for either side on any issue, but it tends to illuminate which side is more open to possible questioning of that narrative, as opposed to the side that's simply content to accept what they want to hear as substitute for researched fact. I'm for researching these gravesites more closely than they thus appear to have been done so far to see what answers might be yielded up. Are you? And I still have to wonder why, if any of these graves were inhabited by deceased clergy members and staff and those remains are now missing, the RCC is not more curious as to where the remains went and how they were disposed of. Catholicism puts a high premium on the treatment of mortal remains, so their seeming total silence on this appears a bit odd. There WAS NO EVIDENCE OF A POSSIBLE CRIME. Just rhetoric from our politicians (who were the ones that were the architects of the residential schools in the first place) & the media. All cemeteries on the grounds of residential schools prove, is that past residents of said school had obviously died, & were buried there. Those past residents would obviously include the priests, the nuns, & even the caretakers of the school. Wouldn't you say that said literature is precisely that " anything that might challenge it"? We were all taught that the residential schools was nothing but, concentration camps for First Nations people. "Go in & you never come out again." Well, obviously that was not the case, otherwise there would be NO FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE AROUND TODAY!!!! That does not mean that NO ABUSE OCCURRED AT ALL. Obviously, there was. But, as will all groups & institutions - schools included - you had your good caregivers & you had your bad ones. The gravesites HAVE been researched & continue to be researched: No bodies of murdered children were found there. The priests, nuns, pastors, & teachers of these schools were all wrongly accused of murder. You still continue to evade the very basic question: why were 200-odd empty graves found? Where did the bodies presumably inhabiting those graves go? Why is the RCC not questioning where the possible remains of Catholic clergy and laity went? What type and manner of 'research' has been conducted? Testing for human DNA in soil residues? Anything more stringent than a 'well, we opened those empty graves, and didn't see nothin', so case closed'? All First Nations people didn't enter those schools, so it's sheer hyperbole to claim that no abuse or deaths on a sizeable scale occurred because there are still First Nations people around today. That's on a par with saying 'well, Hitler couldn't have been running death camps, because we still see Jews around today', or 'The Hutus couldn't have practiced genocide among the Tutsis, because there are still Tutsi people in Rwanda'. To say that these schools were organized death camps or organized genocide isn't accurate, but neither is it accurate to deny that something a bit above and beyond ordinary discipline as would occur in a normal school setting was likely taking place here.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 16, 2024 12:32:54 GMT
I agree it's strange, but not for the reasons you think it is. And exactly which 'they' is it that don't want an investigation? The Canadian government? Or the Roman Catholic Church?
I have no doubt we'd have very differing opinions on that as well.
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Post by clusium on Feb 16, 2024 15:39:50 GMT
There WAS NO EVIDENCE OF A POSSIBLE CRIME. Just rhetoric from our politicians (who were the ones that were the architects of the residential schools in the first place) & the media. All cemeteries on the grounds of residential schools prove, is that past residents of said school had obviously died, & were buried there. Those past residents would obviously include the priests, the nuns, & even the caretakers of the school. Wouldn't you say that said literature is precisely that " anything that might challenge it"? We were all taught that the residential schools was nothing but, concentration camps for First Nations people. "Go in & you never come out again." Well, obviously that was not the case, otherwise there would be NO FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE AROUND TODAY!!!! That does not mean that NO ABUSE OCCURRED AT ALL. Obviously, there was. But, as will all groups & institutions - schools included - you had your good caregivers & you had your bad ones. The gravesites HAVE been researched & continue to be researched: No bodies of murdered children were found there. The priests, nuns, pastors, & teachers of these schools were all wrongly accused of murder. You still continue to evade the very basic question: why were 200-odd empty graves found? Where did the bodies presumably inhabiting those graves go? Why is the RCC not questioning where the possible remains of Catholic clergy and laity went? What type and manner of 'research' has been conducted? Testing for human DNA in soil residues? Anything more stringent than a 'well, we opened those empty graves, and didn't see nothin', so case closed'? All First Nations people didn't enter those schools, so it's sheer hyperbole to claim that no abuse or deaths on a sizeable scale occurred because there are still First Nations people around today. That's on a par with saying 'well, Hitler couldn't have been running death camps, because we still see Jews around today', or 'The Hutus couldn't have practiced genocide among the Tutsis, because there are still Tutsi people in Rwanda'. To say that these schools were organized death camps or organized genocide isn't accurate, but neither is it accurate to deny that something a bit above and beyond ordinary discipline as would occur in a normal school setting was likely taking place here. The graves were not so much as "empty," as they did NOT contain the bodies of any MISSING CHILDREN. Your comparison to Hitler & the Nazis as well as the Hutus is quite frankly, offensive. The Nazis specifically created the camps to MURDER THE JEWISH PEOPLE & OTHER TYPES THEY DEEMED UNWORTHY OF EXISTENCE. Likewise, the Hutus intentionally wanted to kill all Tutsis, back in 1994, in Rwanda.All hell broke loose in Rwanda. The residential schools were intended to educate & update First Nations people. The parents themselves, wanted their children to attend.
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Post by clusium on Feb 16, 2024 15:40:36 GMT
I agree it's strange, but not for the reasons you think it is. And exactly which 'they' is it that don't want an investigation? The Canadian government? Or the Roman Catholic Church? I have no doubt we'd have very differing opinions on that as well. The Canadian Government.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 16, 2024 16:05:47 GMT
I agree it's strange, but not for the reasons you think it is. And exactly which 'they' is it that don't want an investigation? The Canadian government? Or the Roman Catholic Church? I have no doubt we'd have very differing opinions on that as well. The Canadian Government. What they have is ground anomalies that could be potential graves. Not actual graves. As in Manitoba, they went in and found that the potential graves had no bodies and no trace evidence. Therefore, the potential graves were not graves at all but just ground anomalies.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 16, 2024 18:08:00 GMT
I agree it's strange, but not for the reasons you think it is. And exactly which 'they' is it that don't want an investigation? The Canadian government? Or the Roman Catholic Church? I have no doubt we'd have very differing opinions on that as well. My opinion is they're not digging it up because there is nothing there. What is your opinion on why the authorities have not sent in a forensics team to dig up Kamloops? There are 215 bodies of murdered children there, so we were told. Why aren't First nations demanding it to be dug up?
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jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Feb 17, 2024 2:17:27 GMT
So you think it's ok for a member of the clergy to abuse kids? Good to know. I said its not ok to blame innocent people for crimes others committed. Since you pretend you didn't understand. so you think its ok for innocent people to be blamed for crimes they didn't commit? Good to know. I never said that. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Those people who did those things, you seem to support.
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jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Feb 17, 2024 2:20:13 GMT
The salient point is that we do not know for a certainty that there weren't. If there are no bodies of murdered children in those graves, then there is no evidence that any crime has been committed. It is that simple., It is not that simple. Because evidence may have been destroyed or otherwise disposed of does not mean of a necessity that no crime was committed. Until the evidence--in this case the possible missing human remains--is located and analyzed (if they exist), we cannot state without qualification that no crimes or murders occurred. And again--where are the remains of the priests, nuns, teachers, etc. who may have resided in those graves? Is the Church without any curiosity as to what may have become of them? Wrong. I highly recommend you read the book Grave Error, by C.P. Champion & Tom Flanagan. Very interesting read. So is Mein Kampf. Neither book has any truth in them.
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Post by clusium on Feb 17, 2024 2:33:57 GMT
Wrong. I highly recommend you read the book Grave Error, by C.P. Champion & Tom Flanagan. Very interesting read. So is Mein Kampf. Neither book has any truth in them. Never read Mein Kampf, nor have any interest in doing so. Only one has truth in it, & was well researched. The other was written by a failed art student.
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jimmyboy
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@jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Feb 17, 2024 2:57:23 GMT
So is Mein Kampf. Neither book has any truth in them. Never read Mein Kampf, nor have any interest in doing so. Only one has truth in it, & was well researched. The other was written by a failed art student. Really...want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?
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Post by clusium on Feb 17, 2024 3:06:30 GMT
Never read Mein Kampf, nor have any interest in doing so. Only one has truth in it, & was well researched. The other was written by a failed art student. Really...want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge? What would I need that for...
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Post by amyghost on Feb 17, 2024 13:45:54 GMT
You still continue to evade the very basic question: why were 200-odd empty graves found? Where did the bodies presumably inhabiting those graves go? Why is the RCC not questioning where the possible remains of Catholic clergy and laity went? What type and manner of 'research' has been conducted? Testing for human DNA in soil residues? Anything more stringent than a 'well, we opened those empty graves, and didn't see nothin', so case closed'? All First Nations people didn't enter those schools, so it's sheer hyperbole to claim that no abuse or deaths on a sizeable scale occurred because there are still First Nations people around today. That's on a par with saying 'well, Hitler couldn't have been running death camps, because we still see Jews around today', or 'The Hutus couldn't have practiced genocide among the Tutsis, because there are still Tutsi people in Rwanda'. To say that these schools were organized death camps or organized genocide isn't accurate, but neither is it accurate to deny that something a bit above and beyond ordinary discipline as would occur in a normal school setting was likely taking place here. The graves were not so much as "empty," as they did NOT contain the bodies of any MISSING CHILDREN. Your comparison to Hitler & the Nazis as well as the Hutus is quite frankly, offensive. The Nazis specifically created the camps to MURDER THE JEWISH PEOPLE & OTHER TYPES THEY DEEMED UNWORTHY OF EXISTENCE. Likewise, the Hutus intentionally wanted to kill all Tutsis, back in 1994, in Rwanda.All hell broke loose in Rwanda. The residential schools were intended to educate & update First Nations people. The parents themselves, wanted their children to attend. The graves were not so much as "empty," as they did NOT contain the bodies of any MISSING CHILDREN.
You keep stating this, on the basis of zero evidence, as we have graves that either have not been exhumed, so we don't know what they contain; or graves that had been previously dug, but which when excavated, turned out to be empty for reasons that haven't been given any explanation--and one is required, as no one goes about digging massive numbers of graves for no reason. (Oh yeah, I forgot--'ground anomalies' .) Where did the bodies in those graves go? If any of them contained the remains of Catholic clergy or laity, why is the RCC not seeking an investigation as to the disposal of those remains? The residential schools were intended to educate & update First Nations people. The parents themselves, wanted their children to attend. Because parents want to send their children to a particular school/camp/what-have-you does not then mean that the institution in question is inviolately safe. Parents have sent their children to places where, unbeknownst to them--or others--the children were horrendously treated. This has happened even among 'upper-class' Whites; hardly improbable that institutions serving less influential populations may not have been given especially rigorous oversight. You're offended by mentioning Nazis, but I don't see why: I specifically said that the schools were likely not places of organized torture or death, as the Nazi apparatus was; but they were being run by people who, unfortunately, probably had scant respect or sympathy for the native cultures they were dealing with, and one of these schools main thrusts was to eradicate that native culture and replace it with a 'Christian' one. And, like it or not, where there is little respect for a people's indigenous culture, it can frequently be not that far of a step from losing respect for their physical persons. I can see that happening in these sorts of institutions on a not-insignificant scale.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 17, 2024 13:50:37 GMT
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