|
|
Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Feb 9, 2024 17:38:25 GMT
I saw a debate on Reddit that started with Matt Ryan saying he believes that his stats are good enough to be elected to the Hall of Fame. Some commenters then compared him to Philip Rivers. Are these two really Hall of Fame worthy? Ryan has an MVP and an infamous Super Bowl appearance. Rivers had a Don Sutton-lite type of career - decent numbers with nothing much to show for them. I know QBs aren’t solely responsible for team wins and losses but they are among the most responsible. Also, neither the Falcons nor especially the Chargers were the finest run organizations around. So what say you on their Hall of Fame worthiness? My opinion? They’re both the definition of Klaw’s Hall of Very Good candidates, but neither of them make me tingly.
Edit to add - Marino, Tarkenton, Kelly, Fouts, and Moon are the only QBs in the Hall without a ring. I don’t think Ryan or Rivers are at their level.
|
|
|
|
Post by movielover on Feb 9, 2024 17:47:59 GMT
Both should be in, especially Rivers.
|
|
|
|
Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Feb 9, 2024 18:00:32 GMT
Both should be in, especially Rivers. What’s your reasoning for “especially Rivers”? I don’t think he’s better than Ryan and Ryan’s not really a hall of famer to me. |
|
|
|
Post by movielover on Feb 9, 2024 18:02:32 GMT
Both should be in, especially Rivers. What’s your reasoning for “especially Rivers”? I don’t think he’s better than Ryan and Ryan’s not really a hall of famer to me. Because Rivers was statistically one of the top QBs in the league for several years. |
|
|
|
Post by masterofallgoons on Feb 9, 2024 19:11:24 GMT
I saw a debate on Reddit that started with Matt Ryan saying he believes that his stats are good enough to be elected to the Hall of Fame. Some commenters then compared him to Philip Rivers. Are these two really Hall of Fame worthy? Ryan has an MVP and an infamous Super Bowl appearance. Rivers had a Don Sutton-lite type of career - decent numbers with nothing much to show for them. I know QBs aren’t solely responsible for team wins and losses but they are among the most responsible. Also, neither the Falcons nor especially the Chargers were the finest run organizations around. So what say you on their Hall of Fame worthiness? My opinion? They’re both the definition of Klaw’s Hall of Very Good candidates, but neither of them make me tingly. Edit to add - Marino, Tarkenton, Kelly, Fouts, and Moon are the only QBs in the Hall without a ring. I don’t think Ryan or Rivers are at their level. I think your edit-to-add is the key to the answer being no to both. |
|
|
|
Post by tristramshandy on Feb 9, 2024 19:22:30 GMT
I saw a debate on Reddit that started with Matt Ryan saying he believes that his stats are good enough to be elected to the Hall of Fame. Some commenters then compared him to Philip Rivers. Are these two really Hall of Fame worthy? Ryan has an MVP and an infamous Super Bowl appearance. Rivers had a Don Sutton-lite type of career - decent numbers with nothing much to show for them. I know QBs aren’t solely responsible for team wins and losses but they are among the most responsible. Also, neither the Falcons nor especially the Chargers were the finest run organizations around. So what say you on their Hall of Fame worthiness? My opinion? They’re both the definition of Klaw’s Hall of Very Good candidates, but neither of them make me tingly. Edit to add - Marino, Tarkenton, Kelly, Fouts, and Moon are the only QBs in the Hall without a ring. I don’t think Ryan or Rivers are at their level. So Fouts and Moon are the only ones not to even go to the Super Bowl. Rivers would be the third. As of now, I'd say they are probably in, but as guys who are on the ballot for five years. But if a bunch of guys get to their stats in the interim, we'll see. Also, be sure to wheel me out when we get a chance to do this with Lamar Jackson. |
|
|
|
Post by Shane Falco on Feb 9, 2024 20:38:35 GMT
Its so hard to judge some of these QBs now with the inflated QB numbers. Rings shouldn't really matter whether you get into the hall or not. Its a nice thing to put on a plaque but it doesn't truly show how good or not a single player was. Eli Manning has 2 and he shouldn't be a HOF'er in my opinion though he will surely get in.
Rivers is 6th in career yards while Ryan is 7th. Rivers is also 6th is TDs while Ryan is 9th. Ryan had one of the statistically best QB seasons of all time in his MVP season.
I do this with baseball judging for HOF. Was said player ever one of the very best at his position when they played? If you have to think about it more than five seconds then the answer is no. Rivers and Ryan were never at the levels of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees. They are in a tier under imo with the likes of Roethlisberger or Stafford. Neither are guys id be telling my grandkids about in 20 years.
That said I think both get in because of inflated passing stats these days though probably not first ballot. Its why I stopped trying to compare older generations of QB play because its not like I watched them play so trying to judge them based on stats isn't fair. You look at stats on paper and think guys like Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman were mediocre at best compared to today's players. So I no longer try to judge or compare guys outside of eras. I now just rely on whether or not I actually saw them play to make a judgment on how good I felt they were.
|
|
|
|
Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Feb 9, 2024 21:08:28 GMT
Its so hard to judge some of these QBs now with the inflated QB numbers. Rings shouldn't really matter whether you get into the hall or not. It’s a nice thing to put on a plaque but it doesn't truly show how good or not a single player was. Eli Manning has 2 and he shouldn't be a HOF'er in my opinion though he will surely get in. Rivers is 6th in career yards while Ryan is 7th. Rivers is also 6th is TDs while Ryan is 9th. Ryan had one of the statistically best QB seasons of all time in his MVP season. I do this with baseball judging for HOF. Was said player ever one of the very best at his position when they played? If you have to think about it more than five seconds then the answer is no. Rivers and Ryan were never at the levels of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees. They are in a tier under imo with the likes of Roethlisberger or Stafford. Neither are guys id be telling my grandkids about in 20 years. That said I think both get in because of inflated passing stats these days though probably not first ballot. Its why I stopped trying to compare older generations of QB play because its not like I watched them play so trying to judge them based on stats isn't fair. You look at stats on paper and think guys like Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman were mediocre at best compared to today's players. So I no longer try to judge or compare guys outside of eras. I now just rely on whether or not I actually saw them play to make a judgment on how good I felt they were. Just wanted to respond quickly that I get a significantly stronger hall of fame vibe from Roethlisberger than either Ryan or Rivers. I think he’s close to being a lock. |
|
|
|
Post by Shane Falco on Feb 9, 2024 21:35:26 GMT
Its so hard to judge some of these QBs now with the inflated QB numbers. Rings shouldn't really matter whether you get into the hall or not. It’s a nice thing to put on a plaque but it doesn't truly show how good or not a single player was. Eli Manning has 2 and he shouldn't be a HOF'er in my opinion though he will surely get in. Rivers is 6th in career yards while Ryan is 7th. Rivers is also 6th is TDs while Ryan is 9th. Ryan had one of the statistically best QB seasons of all time in his MVP season. I do this with baseball judging for HOF. Was said player ever one of the very best at his position when they played? If you have to think about it more than five seconds then the answer is no. Rivers and Ryan were never at the levels of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees. They are in a tier under imo with the likes of Roethlisberger or Stafford. Neither are guys id be telling my grandkids about in 20 years. That said I think both get in because of inflated passing stats these days though probably not first ballot. Its why I stopped trying to compare older generations of QB play because its not like I watched them play so trying to judge them based on stats isn't fair. You look at stats on paper and think guys like Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman were mediocre at best compared to today's players. So I no longer try to judge or compare guys outside of eras. I now just rely on whether or not I actually saw them play to make a judgment on how good I felt they were. Just wanted to respond quickly that I get a significantly stronger hall of fame vibe from Roethlisberger than either Ryan or Rivers. I think he’s close to being a lock. I think he gets in as well but he isn't exactly a guy I will think of as one of the very best to ever do it in 20 years. Listening to people that cover the NFL I think Rivers is almost a lock too. They fawn over him. Ryan kind of gets overlooked entirely especially now with how good Kyle Shanahan can make QBs look. I just group these guys all together (Roethlisberger, Rivers, Ryan, Stafford) as very good QBs but not in that elite tier. |
|
|
|
Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Feb 9, 2024 23:41:52 GMT
Just wanted to respond quickly that I get a significantly stronger hall of fame vibe from Roethlisberger than either Ryan or Rivers. I think he’s close to being a lock. I think he gets in as well but he isn't exactly a guy I will think of as one of the very best to ever do it in 20 years. Listening to people that cover the NFL I think Rivers is almost a lock too. They fawn over him. Ryan kind of gets overlooked entirely especially now with how good Kyle Shanahan can make QBs look. I just group these guys all together (Roethlisberger, Rivers, Ryan, Stafford) as very good QBs but not in that elite tier. I hear you. There's Brady, Peyton, Brees, and (uggh) Rodgers. Ben isn't in that tier but I think he's higher than Rivers, Ryan, and Stafford. Not for nothing but if Eli gets in for beating the Patriots twice then Ben also has two rings plus a third appearance. |
|
|
|
Post by mtbg on Feb 10, 2024 1:14:51 GMT
I think he gets in as well but he isn't exactly a guy I will think of as one of the very best to ever do it in 20 years. Listening to people that cover the NFL I think Rivers is almost a lock too. They fawn over him. Ryan kind of gets overlooked entirely especially now with how good Kyle Shanahan can make QBs look. I just group these guys all together (Roethlisberger, Rivers, Ryan, Stafford) as very good QBs but not in that elite tier. I hear you. There's Brady, Peyton, Brees, and (uggh) Rodgers. Ben isn't in that tier but I think he's higher than Rivers, Ryan, and Stafford. Not for nothing but if Eli gets in for beating the Patriots twice then Ben also has two rings plus a third appearance. I don't see either as a HOFer. Like you stated, they are more like Klaw's Hall of Very Good. Rivers is closer than Ryan imo, as he was good statistically for a longer period of time. As for Ben and Eli, I never viewed them as elite when they played. Like you said, Brady, Peyton, Brees, and Douche Rodgers were all better, and by a lot imo. I don't see you as a HOFer if you were like 5-10 at your position when you played. That being said, Ben & Eli get in for the 2 rings, which that is a team accomplishment but whatever. |
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Feb 10, 2024 3:33:36 GMT
Rivers only for me, yet Ryan going in also wouldn't bother me the least.
Rivers was part of the 00's finest triplets LT & Gates, & their Chargers were right there with the Patriots, Colts, & Steelers... I blame Schottenheimer for their playoff woes.
I'll always remember the Peter King MMQB pieces about his throwing motion & the Chargers moving on from Drew Brees for him... that was a big deal.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shane Falco on Feb 10, 2024 21:12:49 GMT
I think he gets in as well but he isn't exactly a guy I will think of as one of the very best to ever do it in 20 years. Listening to people that cover the NFL I think Rivers is almost a lock too. They fawn over him. Ryan kind of gets overlooked entirely especially now with how good Kyle Shanahan can make QBs look. I just group these guys all together (Roethlisberger, Rivers, Ryan, Stafford) as very good QBs but not in that elite tier. I hear you. There's Brady, Peyton, Brees, and (uggh) Rodgers. Ben isn't in that tier but I think he's higher than Rivers, Ryan, and Stafford. Not for nothing but if Eli gets in for beating the Patriots twice then Ben also has two rings plus a third appearance. I would even have Eli in a tier below Ben, Rivers etc. I never thought Eli was very good outside of having like 1 good statistical year. He is probably a lock though because of those two Super Bowls and his last name. Ben was definitely the better QB. The only thing that could keep Ben out would be voters reluctantly wanting him in based off the sexual assault allegations from years ago I believe it was and I doubt that happens as its never brought up when speaking of him anymore. |
|
|
|
Post by tristramshandy on Feb 11, 2024 8:00:55 GMT
Its so hard to judge some of these QBs now with the inflated QB numbers. Rings shouldn't really matter whether you get into the hall or not. Its a nice thing to put on a plaque but it doesn't truly show how good or not a single player was. Eli Manning has 2 and he shouldn't be a HOF'er in my opinion though he will surely get in. Rivers is 6th in career yards while Ryan is 7th. Rivers is also 6th is TDs while Ryan is 9th. Ryan had one of the statistically best QB seasons of all time in his MVP season. I do this with baseball judging for HOF. Was said player ever one of the very best at his position when they played? If you have to think about it more than five seconds then the answer is no. Rivers and Ryan were never at the levels of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees. They are in a tier under imo with the likes of Roethlisberger or Stafford. Neither are guys id be telling my grandkids about in 20 years. That said I think both get in because of inflated passing stats these days though probably not first ballot. Its why I stopped trying to compare older generations of QB play because its not like I watched them play so trying to judge them based on stats isn't fair. You look at stats on paper and think guys like Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman were mediocre at best compared to today's players. So I no longer try to judge or compare guys outside of eras. I now just rely on whether or not I actually saw them play to make a judgment on how good I felt they were. I won't be telling my grandkids about Brett Farve - - except how he showed his dick to female reporters. He's a tier below to me. But he still belongs in the Hall of Fame. |
|
|
|
Post by tristramshandy on Feb 11, 2024 8:35:13 GMT
I hear you. There's Brady, Peyton, Brees, and (uggh) Rodgers. Ben isn't in that tier but I think he's higher than Rivers, Ryan, and Stafford. Not for nothing but if Eli gets in for beating the Patriots twice then Ben also has two rings plus a third appearance. I don't see either as a HOFer. Like you stated, they are more like Klaw's Hall of Very Good. Rivers is closer than Ryan imo, as he was good statistically for a longer period of time. As for Ben and Eli, I never viewed them as elite when they played. Like you said, Brady, Peyton, Brees, and Douche Rodgers were all better, and by a lot imo. I don't see you as a HOFer if you were like 5-10 at your position when you played. That being said, Ben & Eli get in for the 2 rings, which that is a team accomplishment but whatever. Why are Brees and Rodgers so much better than Roethlisberger and Manning? Depending on metric, there are a lot of places where those two are middling in stats. Lots of choke jobs by both Rodgers and Brees, two guys who put up a ton of empty statistics but came up small repeatedly in big games. |
|
|
|
Post by mtbg on Feb 11, 2024 17:44:49 GMT
I don't see either as a HOFer. Like you stated, they are more like Klaw's Hall of Very Good. Rivers is closer than Ryan imo, as he was good statistically for a longer period of time. As for Ben and Eli, I never viewed them as elite when they played. Like you said, Brady, Peyton, Brees, and Douche Rodgers were all better, and by a lot imo. I don't see you as a HOFer if you were like 5-10 at your position when you played. That being said, Ben & Eli get in for the 2 rings, which that is a team accomplishment but whatever. Why are Brees and Rodgers so much better than Roethlisberger and Manning? Depending on metric, there are a lot of places where those two are middling in stats. Lots of choke jobs by both Rodgers and Brees, two guys who put up a ton of empty statistics but came up small repeatedly in big games. I think Rodgers and Brees were much more consistent, though I agree they came up small at times. More so with Eli than Ben. Most will say I'm biased as a Dallas fan, but Eli was too wildly inconsistent to be considered great for me. His supporters will overlook the fact that he was a turnover machine and say he always came through in the post season. That's just false. He had those 2 great postseason runs. Can't take that away from him. His teams only made the playoffs 4 other times and they went 1 and done each time. He was so so in 2 of those games and God awful in the other 2 so not exactly always this clutch performer he has the rep for. His best ability was hi availability. Dude was out there week in and week out which as a Dallas fan watching Romo get hurt every year, I was jealous of. He was a very good QB but his lack of consistency season to season stops him from being great. His teams missed the playoffs more often than they made them. Brees and Rodgers have come up short at times but there teams at least made the playoffs which gives thm a shot. |
|
|
|
Post by Shane Falco on Feb 11, 2024 20:04:27 GMT
Its so hard to judge some of these QBs now with the inflated QB numbers. Rings shouldn't really matter whether you get into the hall or not. Its a nice thing to put on a plaque but it doesn't truly show how good or not a single player was. Eli Manning has 2 and he shouldn't be a HOF'er in my opinion though he will surely get in. Rivers is 6th in career yards while Ryan is 7th. Rivers is also 6th is TDs while Ryan is 9th. Ryan had one of the statistically best QB seasons of all time in his MVP season. I do this with baseball judging for HOF. Was said player ever one of the very best at his position when they played? If you have to think about it more than five seconds then the answer is no. Rivers and Ryan were never at the levels of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees. They are in a tier under imo with the likes of Roethlisberger or Stafford. Neither are guys id be telling my grandkids about in 20 years. That said I think both get in because of inflated passing stats these days though probably not first ballot. Its why I stopped trying to compare older generations of QB play because its not like I watched them play so trying to judge them based on stats isn't fair. You look at stats on paper and think guys like Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman were mediocre at best compared to today's players. So I no longer try to judge or compare guys outside of eras. I now just rely on whether or not I actually saw them play to make a judgment on how good I felt they were. I won't be telling my grandkids about Brett Farve - - except how he showed his dick to female reporters. He's a tier below to me. But he still belongs in the Hall of Fame. I won't be telling my grandkids about Brett Favre either but when he retired he held both the passing yards and td records which alone made him deserving of hof induction. Now just getting into the top 10 of those stats all time feels hollow because of how pass happy teams are. So imo those numbers alone aren't worthy of induction. You need other accolades like MVPs, All pro selections, all decade teams etc. You asked in the next post why Rodgers or Brees are better then Ben or Eli. In comparison. Rodgers - 1 SB, 4 MVPs, 4 First Team All Pros, 2010's All Decade team Brees - 1 SB, 1 First Team All Pro Roethlisberger - 2 SBs Manning - 2 SBs Say what you want about MVPs or all pro selections but they do carry some weight in trying to evaluate a single player in a team sport. Ben and Eli never got recognized in that same regard as Rodgers and Brees. I assumed Brees had more all pro selections than he did. But Brees also lead the league in yards 7 times, comp % 6 times, TDs 4 times as well as at one point having the all time passing yards and TD record. Sure those numbers can be inflated because often times Brees would still be throwing in 4th quarters when they could just run out clocks and throwing a lot of short easy completions that got RAC yards. However getting to the all time leader spot carries more weight than just being another guy that gets into the top ten in today's passing heavy league. You also mention how Rodgers and Brees would continually come up short in the playoffs which I think has gotten over blown in recent years. This sounds like you are trying to bring win loss records into this which araren'QB stats but ill entertain this for a second.. Rodgers - 11-10 Brees - 9-9 Roethlisberger - 13-10 Manning - 8-4 While Eli has the best percentage his teams only made the playoffs 12 times showing inconsistencies. If Rodgers and Brees came up short in the playoffs so did Ben as his teams also lost 10 times, he just has 3 SB appearances with 2 rings to mask that number. There is also that Rams/Saints NFC Championship game that the referees fucked the Saints on that probably leads to a 2nd SB appearance for Brees. While Rodgers has come super close to a 2nd SB appearance as well but coming up short despite playing well or being let down by his defenses giving up on average 32.9 points a game in those losses. Its why wins and losses for QBs can be so misleading because you have 3 phases of football and they only contribute to 1/3 of the game. Edit: To add playoffs numbers in general. Rodgers - 5,894 YDs, 45 TDs, 13 INTs, 100.1 Passer Rating (21 games) Brees - 5,366 YDs, 37 TDs, 15 INTs, 97.1 Passer Rating (18 games) Roethlisberger - 5,972 YDs, 36 TDs, 28 INTs, 86.7 Passer Rating (23 games) Manning - 2,815 YDs, 18 TDs, 9 INTs, 87.4 Passer Rating (12 games) |
|
|
|
Post by tristramshandy on Feb 11, 2024 21:43:46 GMT
I won't be telling my grandkids about Brett Farve - - except how he showed his dick to female reporters. He's a tier below to me. But he still belongs in the Hall of Fame. I won't be telling my grandkids about Brett Favre either but when he retired he held both the passing yards and td records which alone made him deserving of hof induction. Now just getting into the top 10 of those stats all time feels hollow because of how pass happy teams are. So imo those numbers alone aren't worthy of induction. You need other accolades like MVPs, All pro selections, all decade teams etc. You asked in the next post why Rodgers or Brees are better then Ben or Eli. In comparison. Rodgers - 1 SB, 4 MVPs, 4 First Team All Pros, 2010's All Decade team Brees - 1 SB, 1 First Team All Pro Roethlisberger - 2 SBs Manning - 2 SBs Say what you want about MVPs or all pro selections but they do carry some weight in trying to evaluate a single player in a team sport. Ben and Eli never got recognized in that same regard as Rodgers and Brees. I assumed Brees had more all pro selections than he did. But Brees also lead the league in yards 7 times, comp % 6 times, TDs 4 times as well as at one point having the all time passing yards and TD record. Sure those numbers can be inflated because often times Brees would still be throwing in 4th quarters when they could just run out clocks and throwing a lot of short easy completions that got RAC yards. However getting to the all time leader spot carries more weight than just being another guy that gets into the top ten in today's passing heavy league. You also mention how Rodgers and Brees would continually come up short in the playoffs which I think has gotten over blown in recent years. This sounds like you are trying to bring win loss records into this which araren'QB stats but ill entertain this for a second.. Rodgers - 11-10 Brees - 9-9 Roethlisberger - 13-10 Manning - 8-4 While Eli has the best percentage his teams only made the playoffs 12 times showing inconsistencies. If Rodgers and Brees came up short in the playoffs so did Ben as his teams also lost 10 times, he just has 3 SB appearances with 2 rings to mask that number. There is also that Rams/Saints NFC Championship game that the referees fucked the Saints on that probably leads to a 2nd SB appearance for Brees. While Rodgers has come super close to a 2nd SB appearance as well but coming up short despite playing well or being let down by his defenses giving up on average 32.9 points a game in those losses. Its why wins and losses for QBs can be so misleading because you have 3 phases of football and they only contribute to 1/3 of the game. Edit: To add playoffs numbers in general. Rodgers - 5,894 YDs, 45 TDs, 13 INTs, 100.1 Passer Rating (21 games) Brees - 5,366 YDs, 37 TDs, 15 INTs, 97.1 Passer Rating (18 games) Roethlisberger - 5,972 YDs, 36 TDs, 28 INTs, 86.7 Passer Rating (23 games) Manning - 2,815 YDs, 18 TDs, 9 INTs, 87.4 Passer Rating (12 games) Super Bowls and appearances are a pretty damn big mask if you ask me. Roethlisberger had to go through Brady and Manning, two of the five or so best quarterbacks ever and got there three times. Rodgers and Brees were in the more wide open NFC and failed to get to the Super Bowl more than once. Every quarterback who has started three Super Bowls and is eligible for the Hall of Fame is in. Every quarterback who has won two Super Bowls and is eligible for the Hall of Fame is in except Jim Plunkett. Maybe Roethlisberger is "punished" for his off-field reputation early in his career and is held back until his second year of eligibility. But he's going to be a Hall of Famer and absolutely should be. |
|
|
|
Post by Shane Falco on Feb 11, 2024 23:39:13 GMT
I won't be telling my grandkids about Brett Favre either but when he retired he held both the passing yards and td records which alone made him deserving of hof induction. Now just getting into the top 10 of those stats all time feels hollow because of how pass happy teams are. So imo those numbers alone aren't worthy of induction. You need other accolades like MVPs, All pro selections, all decade teams etc. You asked in the next post why Rodgers or Brees are better then Ben or Eli. In comparison. Rodgers - 1 SB, 4 MVPs, 4 First Team All Pros, 2010's All Decade team Brees - 1 SB, 1 First Team All Pro Roethlisberger - 2 SBs Manning - 2 SBs Say what you want about MVPs or all pro selections but they do carry some weight in trying to evaluate a single player in a team sport. Ben and Eli never got recognized in that same regard as Rodgers and Brees. I assumed Brees had more all pro selections than he did. But Brees also lead the league in yards 7 times, comp % 6 times, TDs 4 times as well as at one point having the all time passing yards and TD record. Sure those numbers can be inflated because often times Brees would still be throwing in 4th quarters when they could just run out clocks and throwing a lot of short easy completions that got RAC yards. However getting to the all time leader spot carries more weight than just being another guy that gets into the top ten in today's passing heavy league. You also mention how Rodgers and Brees would continually come up short in the playoffs which I think has gotten over blown in recent years. This sounds like you are trying to bring win loss records into this which araren'QB stats but ill entertain this for a second.. Rodgers - 11-10 Brees - 9-9 Roethlisberger - 13-10 Manning - 8-4 While Eli has the best percentage his teams only made the playoffs 12 times showing inconsistencies. If Rodgers and Brees came up short in the playoffs so did Ben as his teams also lost 10 times, he just has 3 SB appearances with 2 rings to mask that number. There is also that Rams/Saints NFC Championship game that the referees fucked the Saints on that probably leads to a 2nd SB appearance for Brees. While Rodgers has come super close to a 2nd SB appearance as well but coming up short despite playing well or being let down by his defenses giving up on average 32.9 points a game in those losses. Its why wins and losses for QBs can be so misleading because you have 3 phases of football and they only contribute to 1/3 of the game. Edit: To add playoffs numbers in general. Rodgers - 5,894 YDs, 45 TDs, 13 INTs, 100.1 Passer Rating (21 games) Brees - 5,366 YDs, 37 TDs, 15 INTs, 97.1 Passer Rating (18 games) Roethlisberger - 5,972 YDs, 36 TDs, 28 INTs, 86.7 Passer Rating (23 games) Manning - 2,815 YDs, 18 TDs, 9 INTs, 87.4 Passer Rating (12 games) Super Bowls and appearances are a pretty damn big mask if you ask me. Roethlisberger had to go through Brady and Manning, two of the five or so best quarterbacks ever and got there three times. Rodgers and Brees were in the more wide open NFC and failed to get to the Super Bowl more than once. Every quarterback who has started three Super Bowls and is eligible for the Hall of Fame is in. Every quarterback who has won two Super Bowls and is eligible for the Hall of Fame is in except Jim Plunkett. Maybe Roethlisberger is "punished" for his off-field reputation early in his career and is held back until his second year of eligibility. But he's going to be a Hall of Famer and absolutely should be. I literally said I think he gets in. I just never thought of him as elite or in the same tier as those 4 listed. You can clearly disagree. Thats how opinions work. Ben gets in like Eli does because of those 2 rings which I attribute to team accomplishments as pointed out QBs only contribute to 1/3 of a football game. I gave my examples as to why he is in a tier lower. The post season woes for Rodgers or Brees are overblown or recency bias imo. Id take both their playoff numbers over Ben or Eli. The Steelers got to 3 SBs winning 2 with Ben. Was Ben ever the driving force in those wins? SB vs Arizona Ben had 1 TD and 1 INT with 256 YDs. Holmes MVP. Sure Ben got the TD to Holmes with 30 seconds left so there is that. SB vs Seattle Ben had 1 rush TD and 2 INTs with 123 YDs and a 9/21 passing day. The 1 pass TD came from Randle El. Those are his two rings. One he played very badly the other he was okay with a late TD to Holmes. SB vs GB Ben had 2 TDs and 2 INTs with 263 YDs. Its not like he played amazing in these Super Bowls. They won them as a team. So im sorry if I dont consider Ben to be some elite tier QB. He has the two rings that is true but I feel like both Brees and Rodgers have played better in the post season. Given the 10 Steelers losses in the playoffs that says he came up short just as much. Again, I think Ben gets in the HOF. You can disagree on how I rate him. But in the end we both agree he gets in. |
|
