|
|
Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 28, 2024 2:24:11 GMT
This is one of my main breaks from the norm. I don’t see the hype around this; even if we’re just taking the first movie into account.
1. The Matrix - 6/10
2. The Matrix Reloaded - 6/10
3. The Matrix Revolutions - 5/10
4. The Matrix Resurrections - 4/10
These movies make almost no sense at all. The action can be fun (the highway chase in Reloaded is one of the best action scenes ever), but I don’t care about a single character.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 28, 2024 2:27:36 GMT
What doesn't make sense about them?
|
|
|
|
Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 28, 2024 2:33:42 GMT
What doesn't make sense about them? People ask me this all the time and I find it hard to answer because I don’t know what I don’t know. But my best deduction is that it doesn’t follow its own logic, until it needs to in order to be convenient (and vice versa). |
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 28, 2024 2:36:45 GMT
What doesn't make sense about them? People ask me this all the time and I find it hard to answer because I don’t know what I don’t know. But my best deduction is that it doesn’t follow its own logic, until it needs to in order to be convenient (and vice versa). I like to think I have a good understanding of these movies, so if there's any specific examples I wouldn't mind trying to tackle them. |
|
|
|
Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 28, 2024 2:47:18 GMT
People ask me this all the time and I find it hard to answer because I don’t know what I don’t know. But my best deduction is that it doesn’t follow its own logic, until it needs to in order to be convenient (and vice versa). I like to think I have a good understanding of these movies, so if there's any specific examples I wouldn't mind trying to tackle them. One of my main issues is the difference between the programs and the enslaved individuals in the matrix. Who put these programs in, especially ones that may help the resistance? I understand the reasoning is probably that every program was put in at some point to help the machines (especially the Oracle), but if they’re helping the humans free themselves, why wouldn’t the matrix terminate these systems immediately? I assume there’s a thread/line of dialogue I’ve missed, but that seemed like a massive plot hole that makes the sequels especially fall completely apart. |
|
|
|
Post by jcush on Apr 28, 2024 3:04:53 GMT
I'm only a mild fan of the original and don't care much for any of the sequels.
The Matrix - 7/10
Reloaded - 6/10
Resurrections - 5/10
Revolutions - 4.5/10
|
|
|
|
Post by Roberto on Apr 28, 2024 3:32:05 GMT
Reloaded and Revolutions definitely take a subsequent viewing to appreciate more, but I'm surprised by you thinking the first is only good. To me that is nearly a perfect film.
The Matrix - 9.5/10
The Matrix Reloaded - 7/10
The Matrix Revolutions - 8.5/10
The Matrix Resurrections is good for what it is but I don't really view it as part of the main series
|
|
|
|
Post by movielover on Apr 28, 2024 3:34:35 GMT
The first one is one of my all time favorite movies.
The Matrix - 10/10
The Matrix Reloaded - 7/10
The Matrix Revolutions - 6/10
|
|
|
|
Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 28, 2024 3:39:11 GMT
Roberto movieloverI’ve seen the first one four times I believe. The first two times I didn’t like it much; the third time I liked it a bit more; this most recent time I just didn’t like it much again. I can say that I really respect the Wachowski’s for their vision. The universe they made is very layered and obviously a lot of thought went into these movies. I just find them to be jumbled messes, with action not as agreeable as everyone else seems to find them (other than the aforementioned freeway chase, which is ridiculously awesome).
|
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 28, 2024 3:43:46 GMT
I like to think I have a good understanding of these movies, so if there's any specific examples I wouldn't mind trying to tackle them. One of my main issues is the difference between the programs and the enslaved individuals in the matrix. Who put these programs in, especially ones that may help the resistance? I understand the reasoning is probably that every program was put in at some point to help the machines (especially the Oracle), but if they’re helping the humans free themselves, why wouldn’t the matrix terminate these systems immediately? I assume there’s a thread/line of dialogue I’ve missed, but that seemed like a massive plot hole that makes the sequels especially fall completely apart. Worth noting that the main program helping the humans - The Oracle - was something of a double agent and the prophecy was a way of manipulating them. Indeed, the programs are all initially created to serve the interests of the machines, but some go rogue. As we see with the program Smith, he has some form of consciousness which leads to him choosing to stay in the Matrix and do his own thing rather than face deletion, and terminating him required the help of Neo. (as for where you might have missed all this, it's largely in the info dumps given by the Oracle and Architect in Reloaded) |
|
|
|
Post by James on Apr 28, 2024 3:49:52 GMT
My ranking:
The Matrix - 8/10
The Matrix Reloaded - 7/10
The Matrix Resurrections - 6/10
The Matrix Revolutions - 6/10
|
|
|
|
Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 28, 2024 3:55:32 GMT
One of my main issues is the difference between the programs and the enslaved individuals in the matrix. Who put these programs in, especially ones that may help the resistance? I understand the reasoning is probably that every program was put in at some point to help the machines (especially the Oracle), but if they’re helping the humans free themselves, why wouldn’t the matrix terminate these systems immediately? I assume there’s a thread/line of dialogue I’ve missed, but that seemed like a massive plot hole that makes the sequels especially fall completely apart. Worth noting that the main program helping the humans - The Oracle - was something of a double agent and the prophecy was a way of manipulating them. Indeed, the programs are all initially created to serve the interests of the machines, but some go rogue. As we see with the program Smith, he has some form of consciousness which leads to him choosing to stay in the Matrix and do his own thing rather than face deletion, and terminating him required the help of Neo. (as for where you might have missed all this, it's largely in the info dumps given by the Oracle and Architect in Reloaded) I remember the Architect conversation, perhaps I tuned out more than I thought. I’ve seen the original four times and the other three only once (and recently). There’s other characters I don’t really understand, like the Key Maker and the Merovingian. Maybe a better way to put it is that I just wasn’t engaged by these movies. The prophecy itself even seems a little messy and a little nonsensical as far as the machines are concerned (they used the Oracle to manipulate Neo to do their bidding to get rid of Smith, I think?). |
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 28, 2024 5:18:59 GMT
Worth noting that the main program helping the humans - The Oracle - was something of a double agent and the prophecy was a way of manipulating them. Indeed, the programs are all initially created to serve the interests of the machines, but some go rogue. As we see with the program Smith, he has some form of consciousness which leads to him choosing to stay in the Matrix and do his own thing rather than face deletion, and terminating him required the help of Neo. (as for where you might have missed all this, it's largely in the info dumps given by the Oracle and Architect in Reloaded) I remember the Architect conversation, perhaps I tuned out more than I thought. I’ve seen the original four times and the other three only once (and recently). There’s other characters I don’t really understand, like the Key Maker and the Merovingian. Maybe a better way to put it is that I just wasn’t engaged by these movies. The prophecy itself even seems a little messy and a little nonsensical as far as the machines are concerned (they used the Oracle to manipulate Neo to do their bidding to get rid of Smith, I think?). Merovingian was another rogue program that basically set up shop in the Matrix as a crime boss. The Keymaker was designed to bring Neo to the Architect, which he did. And Smith taking over the Matrix hadn't really been planned by the machines, which is how Neo was able to use it to broker a peace deal and spare that Zion in Revolutions, rather than let the machines destroy it and create a new Zion as he was supposed to in Reloaded. Some humans wont accept the fake reality of the Matrix no matter what, so Zion becomes a neccesary evil for the machines, with The One as their "messiah" figure. To keep it from becoming too unwieldly, the machines eventually destroy Zion and the cycle begins again with a new Zion and new One, rinse and repeat. Neo is the 6th, but unlike the previous Ones, he refused to go along with machines. |
|
|
|
Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 28, 2024 5:38:56 GMT
I remember the Architect conversation, perhaps I tuned out more than I thought. I’ve seen the original four times and the other three only once (and recently). There’s other characters I don’t really understand, like the Key Maker and the Merovingian. Maybe a better way to put it is that I just wasn’t engaged by these movies. The prophecy itself even seems a little messy and a little nonsensical as far as the machines are concerned (they used the Oracle to manipulate Neo to do their bidding to get rid of Smith, I think?). Merovingian was another rogue program that basically set up shop in the Matrix as a crime boss. The Keymaker was designed to bring Neo to the Architect, which he did. And Smith taking over the Matrix hadn't really been planned by the machines, which is how Neo was able to use it to broker a peace deal and spare that Zion in Revolutions, rather than let the machines destroy it and create a new Zion as he was supposed to in Reloaded. Some humans wont accept the fake reality of the Matrix no matter what, so Zion becomes a neccesary evil for the machines, with The One as their "messiah" figure. To keep it from becoming too unwieldly, the machines eventually destroy Zion and the cycle begins again with a new Zion and new One, rinse and repeat. Neo is the 6th, but unlike the previous Ones, he refused to go along with machines. To be fair, that makes more sense. Also not to sound like a dumbass, the movies meld so many characters with so many motivations that it all blends together. Not to mention Resurrections, which seems to make everything bad again. And part of the whole thing with it is that the movie is aware of this and the ridiculousness of Morpheus and Smith being recast. But it makes little sense to me. I suppose my main issue is that all four movies are written like a traditional movie(s) and there’s little to explain that except *long* monologues. To be fair again, I don’t hate any of the movies. The closest I am to hating one is Resurrections, because of the corny romance shit. I just think the whole thing is more or less an exercise in “See as I say, no matter what I say.” |
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 28, 2024 6:03:56 GMT
Merovingian was another rogue program that basically set up shop in the Matrix as a crime boss. The Keymaker was designed to bring Neo to the Architect, which he did. And Smith taking over the Matrix hadn't really been planned by the machines, which is how Neo was able to use it to broker a peace deal and spare that Zion in Revolutions, rather than let the machines destroy it and create a new Zion as he was supposed to in Reloaded. Some humans wont accept the fake reality of the Matrix no matter what, so Zion becomes a neccesary evil for the machines, with The One as their "messiah" figure. To keep it from becoming too unwieldly, the machines eventually destroy Zion and the cycle begins again with a new Zion and new One, rinse and repeat. Neo is the 6th, but unlike the previous Ones, he refused to go along with machines. To be fair, that makes more sense. Also not to sound like a dumbass, the movies meld so many characters with so many motivations that it all blends together. Not to mention Resurrections, which seems to make everything bad again. And part of the whole thing with it is that the movie is aware of this and the ridiculousness of Morpheus and Smith being recast. But it makes little sense to me. I think a simple way of loooking at is that the human characters are fighting for humanity, non-rogue programs are fighting for machines, and rogue programs are fighting for themselves. In regards to Resurrections, the machines held up their end of the deal and there was peace for a time, but then the machines got into a civil war with each other over the growing lack of energy resources and the bad faction won out. I think the Morpheus/Smith recastings were stictly due to Fishburne and Weaving not returning for whatever reasons. In the reality of the film, Neo and Trinity are also recast but they see themselves and each other as Keanu and Moss. "I suppose my main issue is that all four movies are written like a traditional movie(s) and there’s little to explain that except *long* monologues" - they're all pretty subtext heavy, the first three as philosophical/spiritual exercises about all kinds of potentially different things, and the fourth as a meta joke about being forced to make an unnecessary sequel. |
|
|
|
Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 28, 2024 6:14:09 GMT
To be fair, that makes more sense. Also not to sound like a dumbass, the movies meld so many characters with so many motivations that it all blends together. Not to mention Resurrections, which seems to make everything bad again. And part of the whole thing with it is that the movie is aware of this and the ridiculousness of Morpheus and Smith being recast. But it makes little sense to me. I think a simple way of loooking at is that the human characters are fighting for humanity, non-rogue programs are fighting for machines, and rogue programs are fighting for themselves. In regards to Resurrections, the machines held up their end of the deal and there was peace for a time, but then the machines got into a civil war with each other over the growing lack of energy resources and the bad faction won out. I think the Morpheus/Smith recastings were stictly due to Fishburne and Weaving not returning for whatever reasons. In the reality of the film, Neo and Trinity are also recast but they see themselves and each other as Keanu and Moss. "I suppose my main issue is that all four movies are written like a traditional movie(s) and there’s little to explain that except *long* monologues" - they're all pretty subtext heavy, the first three as philosophical/spiritual exercises about all kinds of potentially different things, and the fourth as a meta joke about being forced to make an unnecessary sequel. Fair enough. The more I’ve read up on it (for the first time) and with your explanation, it makes more sense. Within the world at least. I understand the irony of me being a Nolan slurper and criticizing this type of thing, but it all seems very convenient and “just trust me bro.” But as I said above, I respect the effort a lot and the Wachowski’s deserve a lot of credit for being deep-diving pseudo-philosophically with their over-arching story. Another main question I have, which I think will be nothing but an argument, is why is Trinity and Neo’s romance so over powered? That didn’t make much sense to me in Resurrections. |
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 28, 2024 6:39:20 GMT
I think a simple way of loooking at is that the human characters are fighting for humanity, non-rogue programs are fighting for machines, and rogue programs are fighting for themselves. In regards to Resurrections, the machines held up their end of the deal and there was peace for a time, but then the machines got into a civil war with each other over the growing lack of energy resources and the bad faction won out. I think the Morpheus/Smith recastings were stictly due to Fishburne and Weaving not returning for whatever reasons. In the reality of the film, Neo and Trinity are also recast but they see themselves and each other as Keanu and Moss. "I suppose my main issue is that all four movies are written like a traditional movie(s) and there’s little to explain that except *long* monologues" - they're all pretty subtext heavy, the first three as philosophical/spiritual exercises about all kinds of potentially different things, and the fourth as a meta joke about being forced to make an unnecessary sequel. Fair enough. The more I’ve read up on it (for the first time) and with your explanation, it makes more sense. Within the world at least. I understand the irony of me being a Nolan slurper and criticizing this type of thing, but it all seems very convenient and “just trust me bro.” But as I said above, I respect the effort a lot and the Wachowski’s deserve a lot of credit for being deep-diving pseudo-philosophically with their over-arching story. Another main question I have, which I think will be nothing but an argument, is why is Trinity and Neo’s romance so over powered? That didn’t make much sense to me in Resurrections. As a "Nolan slurper", you should know that "Love is the one thing that we’re capable of perceiving that transcends dimensions of time and space."  But yeah, Neo's love for Trinity is what caused him to reject the machines and risk everything in Reloaded, so it was a pretty powerful thing - particularly as an energy soruce for the machines. Now Tenet, there's a movie I couldn't follow. |
|
|
|
Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 28, 2024 19:32:00 GMT
Fair enough. The more I’ve read up on it (for the first time) and with your explanation, it makes more sense. Within the world at least. I understand the irony of me being a Nolan slurper and criticizing this type of thing, but it all seems very convenient and “just trust me bro.” But as I said above, I respect the effort a lot and the Wachowski’s deserve a lot of credit for being deep-diving pseudo-philosophically with their over-arching story. Another main question I have, which I think will be nothing but an argument, is why is Trinity and Neo’s romance so over powered? That didn’t make much sense to me in Resurrections. As a "Nolan slurper", you should know that "Love is the one thing that we’re capable of perceiving that transcends dimensions of time and space." But yeah, Neo's love for Trinity is what caused him to reject the machines and risk everything in Reloaded, so it was a pretty powerful thing - particularly as an energy soruce for the machines. Now Tenet, there's a movie I couldn't follow. Tenet is best understood in a very general sense. “Don’t try to understand it. Feel it.” To me, that line was a desperate plea from Nolan to the audience. It’s also the best (and only) way to enjoy the movie. |
|
|
|
Post by FridayOnElmStreet on Apr 28, 2024 20:18:14 GMT
Personally I really like the first one and the other three films are just very average.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 28, 2024 22:04:56 GMT
As a "Nolan slurper", you should know that "Love is the one thing that we’re capable of perceiving that transcends dimensions of time and space." But yeah, Neo's love for Trinity is what caused him to reject the machines and risk everything in Reloaded, so it was a pretty powerful thing - particularly as an energy soruce for the machines. Now Tenet, there's a movie I couldn't follow. Tenet is best understood in a very general sense. “Don’t try to understand it. Feel it.”
To me, that line was a desperate plea from Nolan to the audience. It’s also the best (and only) way to enjoy the movie.It's also a memorable quote from Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. But fair enough. |
|
