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Post by DSDSquared on Jul 7, 2017 11:44:25 GMT
I did really like Keaton in Spiderman. Just saw it last night.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 7, 2017 13:04:29 GMT
The 3 worst are definitely Mandarin, Ronan, and Zemo.
Mandarin - he was a joke of a villain.
Ronan - "I'm Ronan the Big Bad Destroyer and I'm invincible!" Defeated by a silly Dance-Off.
Zemo - he was worst than Lex Luthor in BvS. At least Lex knew to kidnap Martha Kent and Lois Lane. Zemo: "The Avengers killed my family. But even though I know all of their identities, I'm not going to do the logical thing and go after their families and loved ones. Instead, I'm going to come up with this convoluted plot where I find the only copy of a videotape from 25 years ago of Bucky murdering Tony Stark's parents and then I'm going to wait for Captain America, Bucky, and Iron Man to all show up at this remote base in Siberia at the same time so they can watch the videotape together and then Iron Man and Captain America can fight each other."
Ronan was defeated by arrogance.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 7, 2017 13:43:40 GMT
So none of them thought they would get caught either. Basically, they all thought they were too smart to get caught. Just like Lex and practically every other criminal mastermind in cinema history. Criminal masterminds always think they're too smart to get caught. And Count Dooku was Emperor Palpatine's loyal apprentice. How did that work out for Dooku. Lex isn't the first criminal mastermind to kill 1 of his loyal underlings and he won't be the last either. Most criminal masterminds are narcissists. And narcissists have no hesitation about killing loyal underlings because they think there'll always be another loyal underling to replace the 1 they just killed. Like I said in my previous post, Mercy had knowledge that could put Lex away for a long time so she was a threat. She might not have betrayed Lex yet, but given the proper motivation (full immunity from prosecution in exchange for testifying against Lex), maybe she would. Lex wasn't going to take that chance. This isn't the comics; this is the movies. Was Aunt May a hot woman in the comics or an old widow? HYDRA was close to claiming rule over congress and few opposed them, Peirce didn't need to stress much about losing and getting arrested because the organization was operating in too many places. Stane was in the Iron Monger suit and wanted to get rid of those who knew his secret so he wouldn't face criminal charges. Did they think they could get away with it all? Yes, but not without cost and they're reasoning to think so carried more weight than Lex had in BvS. Cross knew it was game over for him and just sought out Scott Lang's daughter for revenge, he had no other goals beyond hurting Lang emotionally and physically. There is nothing in the movie to suggest Mercy would betray Lex, she was very passive throughout and displayed no concern or objection to what he was doing. Had there been established tension between the two I could understand why Lex did what he did, but since there wasn't its just puzzling. Their relationship in the movie is nowhere as complex as Dooku and Palpatine's so your comparison doesn't work at all, especially when we know so damn little about Lex and Mercy's relationship. She was an assistant, what else did she do? She didn't display anything of note except reporting news to Lex and following him around. Of course it isn't the comics, but seeing as the movies do take inspiration from the comics its not a dumb thing to bring up. Obviously it's not true, which is a shame because they could've used that to make her a stand out character, which she wasn't. Too bad, such a waste of a fine actress too. Waste of Jimmy Olsen as well but that's a different story. Still waiting to hear how Lex is as rounded as Zod or Ares or Dr. Poison, also villains of the DCEU in case you forgot. I really don't think he understands the relationships between Mercy and Lex and Dooku and Palpatine. Palpatine was using Dooku. Dooku was a tool to get to Anakin, the more powerful Force user. Sith Lords use apprentices as tools. Mercy is Lex's version of Harley Quinn (both created for the DCAU as the main villain's assistant). He doesn't like her in the romantic way, but he'd hate for her to get hurt or die. The way they used Mercy in the movie was sickening. She's more than his assistant, she's his bodyguard. Hell, if anything, she should have been in the Doomsday spot. She got to the point where her limbs can transform into weapons like Cyborg.
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Jul 8, 2017 1:52:32 GMT
I honestly think Abomination was my favorite villain of the MCU, even though I didn't like that movie that much. Tim Roth was just great in the role. There was just something great about hit motivation as a soldier to reach the ultimate power that The Hulk had.
I haven't seen Spider-Man yet, but I hear The Vulture is the best villain of the MCU. I'll be seeing it tomorrow.
Alexander Pierce and Obadiah Stane were great villains, but it got tiring watching the classic "Businessman" villain, like Justin Hammer, Darren Cross, and Aldrich Killian.
That's why I kind of love Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. They made him less villainous Warren Buffet and made him more crazy, evil Mark Zuckerberg. I know that's not something everyone wanted to see, but I thought it was a great departure from what we've known.
Also, Loki is legit AF.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 2:17:08 GMT
I honestly think Abomination was my favorite villain of the MCU, even though I didn't like that movie that much. Tim Roth was just great in the role. There was just something great about hit motivation as a soldier to reach the ultimate power that The Hulk had. I haven't seen Spider-Man yet, but I hear The Vulture is the best villain of the MCU. I'll be seeing it tomorrow. Alexander Pierce and Obadiah Stane were great villains, but it got tiring watching the classic "Businessman" villain, like Justin Hammer, Darren Cross, and Aldrich Killian. That's why I kind of love Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. They made him less villainous Warren Buffet and made him more crazy, evil Mark Zuckerberg. I know that's not something everyone wanted to see, but I thought it was a great departure from what we've known. Also, Loki is legit AF. Well, actually, I would file Pierce under the "Corrupt, Conspiring Politician"-type of villain. Oh, yes, The Vulture rocks. Keaton applies exactly the right levels of humanity and swarm.
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Jul 8, 2017 2:40:47 GMT
I honestly think Abomination was my favorite villain of the MCU, even though I didn't like that movie that much. Tim Roth was just great in the role. There was just something great about hit motivation as a soldier to reach the ultimate power that The Hulk had. I haven't seen Spider-Man yet, but I hear The Vulture is the best villain of the MCU. I'll be seeing it tomorrow. Alexander Pierce and Obadiah Stane were great villains, but it got tiring watching the classic "Businessman" villain, like Justin Hammer, Darren Cross, and Aldrich Killian. That's why I kind of love Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. They made him less villainous Warren Buffet and made him more crazy, evil Mark Zuckerberg. I know that's not something everyone wanted to see, but I thought it was a great departure from what we've known. Also, Loki is legit AF. Well, actually, I would file Pierce under the "Corrupt, Conspiring Politician"-type of villain. Oh, yes, The Vulture rocks. Keaton applies exactly the right levels of humanity and swarm. Yeah I totally realized my error in another post. I should've said "Old man in a suit" .. not "Businessman". But I can't wait to see Homecoming tomorrow!!!! I think I might go to another showing of GotGv2 right before seeing Spider-Man. Should be a great day!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 3:58:32 GMT
Well, actually, I would file Pierce under the "Corrupt, Conspiring Politician"-type of villain. Oh, yes, The Vulture rocks. Keaton applies exactly the right levels of humanity and swarm. Yeah I totally realized my error in another post. I should've said "Old man in a suit" .. not "Businessman". But I can't wait to see Homecoming tomorrow!!!! I think I might go to another showing of GotGv2 right before seeing Spider-Man. Should be a great day! Awesome! I'm sad Guardians 2 doesn't play around where I live anymore, else I might do the same thing.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 8, 2017 4:17:24 GMT
Mercy is Lex's version of Harley Quinn (both created for the DCAU as the main villain's assistant). He doesn't like her in the romantic way, but he'd hate for her to get hurt or die. You MCU fans are so dumb that you always need everything spoon fed to you. It doesn't matter if Mercy was loyal to Lex.
For Wonder Woman, it wasn't about deserve, it was about what she believed. And for Lex, it wasn't about loyalty, it was about expendability. Lex considers all of his employees, including Mercy, to be expendable.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 8, 2017 4:19:06 GMT
There is nothing in the movie to suggest Mercy would betray Lex, she was very passive throughout and displayed no concern or objection to what he was doing. Had there been established tension between the two I could understand why Lex did what he did, but since there wasn't its just puzzling. You MCU fans are so dumb that you always need everything spoon fed to you. It doesn't matter if Mercy was loyal to Lex. For Wonder Woman, it wasn't about deserve, it was about what she believed. And for Lex, it wasn't about loyalty, it was about expendability. Lex considers all of his employees, including Mercy, to be expendable.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 8, 2017 6:34:46 GMT
There is nothing in the movie to suggest Mercy would betray Lex, she was very passive throughout and displayed no concern or objection to what he was doing. Had there been established tension between the two I could understand why Lex did what he did, but since there wasn't its just puzzling. You MCU fans are so dumb that you always need everything spoon fed to you. It doesn't matter if Mercy was loyal to Lex. For Wonder Woman, it wasn't about deserve, it was about what she believed. And for Lex, it wasn't about loyalty, it was about expendability. Lex considers all of his employees, including Mercy, to be expendable. It took you that long for a reply? Lame. We're pondering the decision to have Lex kill off Mercy in BvS because their relationship in past media has always been that Mercy is extremely loyal to Lex and that Lex sees her as more than just another one of his employees, nothing romantic but he trusts her more than most people. So why change it for the DCEU? Mercy could've really been a nice stand-out character, in other media she's been portrayed as a cyborg( Young Justice) and an actual Amazon in the comics, in the cartoons she's a highly skilled bodyguard who is not easy to knock down by a long shot. in BvS she just follows Lex around, informs him of news, and takes notes. They could've called her "random assistant lady"( And if she had, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all), but instead they made her Mercy Graves, and they got a pretty talented actress who could've used a multi-film franchise for a good career boost. It was such a waste, nothing to do with being an MCU fan( You really need to stop using this, its getting tiresome). Tell you what, you made a topic claiming Spider-Man: Homecoming to be the worst adaptation of the character to date because his spider sense is absent, if that's all it takes to call the film terrible then well Lex not giving a damn about Mercy is far more eye brow raising and out of character based on most contemporary media so I'd say BvS takes the cake for being the worst adaptation - And Lex having Mercy bite the dust doesn't even scratch the surface of the movies' problems.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 8, 2017 7:05:48 GMT
You MCU fans are so dumb that you always need everything spoon fed to you. It doesn't matter if Mercy was loyal to Lex. For Wonder Woman, it wasn't about deserve, it was about what she believed. And for Lex, it wasn't about loyalty, it was about expendability. Lex considers all of his employees, including Mercy, to be expendable. It took you that long for a reply? Lame. We're pondering the decision to have Lex kill off Mercy in BvS because their relationship in past media has always been that Mercy is extremely loyal to Lex and that Lex sees her as more than just another one of his employees, nothing romantic but he trusts her more than most people. So why change it for the DCEU? Tell you what, you made a topic claiming Spider-Man: Homecoming to be the worst adaptation of the character to date because his spider sense is absent, if that's all it takes to call the film terrible then well Lex not giving a damn about Mercy is far more eye brow raising and out of character based on most contemporary media so I'd say BvS takes the cake for being the worst adaptation No, Spider-Man's lack of Spider Sense is still the worst adaptaion because Lex not giving a damn about Mercy has been done in past media before. Watch the episode Ghost in the Machine from Superman: The Animated Series. That episode shows that Lex doesn't give a damn about Mercy so BvS took inspiration from that.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 8, 2017 11:03:47 GMT
It took you that long for a reply? Lame. We're pondering the decision to have Lex kill off Mercy in BvS because their relationship in past media has always been that Mercy is extremely loyal to Lex and that Lex sees her as more than just another one of his employees, nothing romantic but he trusts her more than most people. So why change it for the DCEU? Tell you what, you made a topic claiming Spider-Man: Homecoming to be the worst adaptation of the character to date because his spider sense is absent, if that's all it takes to call the film terrible then well Lex not giving a damn about Mercy is far more eye brow raising and out of character based on most contemporary media so I'd say BvS takes the cake for being the worst adaptation No, Spider-Man's lack of Spider Sense is still the worst adaptaion because Lex not giving a damn about Mercy has been done in past media before. Watch the episode Ghost in the Machine from Superman: The Animated Series. That episode shows that Lex doesn't give a damn about Mercy so BvS took inspiration from that. TAS at least bothered DOING something with Mercy before that episode, which is more than BvS can say.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 8, 2017 13:05:02 GMT
Mercy is Lex's version of Harley Quinn (both created for the DCAU as the main villain's assistant). He doesn't like her in the romantic way, but he'd hate for her to get hurt or die. You MCU fans are so dumb that you always need everything spoon fed to you. It doesn't matter if Mercy was loyal to Lex.
For Wonder Woman, it wasn't about deserve, it was about what she believed. And for Lex, it wasn't about loyalty, it was about expendability. Lex considers all of his employees, including Mercy, to be expendable.
And that is where they (and you) don't understand the characters. They changed things to the point they are In Name Only. She might as well been Ms. Tessmacher. But, then again, that would have been a big change, also. What was the point of bringing up Wonder Woman?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 8, 2017 17:27:50 GMT
It took you that long for a reply? Lame. We're pondering the decision to have Lex kill off Mercy in BvS because their relationship in past media has always been that Mercy is extremely loyal to Lex and that Lex sees her as more than just another one of his employees, nothing romantic but he trusts her more than most people. So why change it for the DCEU? Tell you what, you made a topic claiming Spider-Man: Homecoming to be the worst adaptation of the character to date because his spider sense is absent, if that's all it takes to call the film terrible then well Lex not giving a damn about Mercy is far more eye brow raising and out of character based on most contemporary media so I'd say BvS takes the cake for being the worst adaptation No, Spider-Man's lack of Spider Sense is still the worst adaptaion because Lex not giving a damn about Mercy has been done in past media before. Watch the episode Ghost in the Machine from Superman: The Animated Series. That episode shows that Lex doesn't give a damn about Mercy so BvS took inspiration from that. There have been Spider-Man stories where he doesn't rely on his spider sense, his spider sense does not define who he is and is that integral to his character, it is not a 24/7 thing. Spidey in Homecoming still has super-human strength and agility, can climb walls, has web shooters, cares for the little guy, feels loyal to his community, interacts with other superheroes, is a science wiz, cares about his image in school, etc. Spider sense aside this is still the most comic accurate version we've had on screen since ever. Lex in BvS doesn't even come close to being a better portrayal of a comic character, which is why he's often viewed as the worst/weakest aspect of the whole movie. Your comparison of BvS and the Superman: The Animated Series episode "Ghost in the Machine" doesn't work, because in that episode Mercy and Lex were not on the best of terms because of the events that transpired, Lex does care about Mercy - not to an extremely personal level like but he wouldn't want her to bite the dust. I seriously doubt the people who made BvS took influence from that very episode and thought of Mercy the same as they did of Jimmy Olsen - Expendable.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 8, 2017 17:39:11 GMT
No, Spider-Man's lack of Spider Sense is still the worst adaptaion because Lex not giving a damn about Mercy has been done in past media before. Watch the episode Ghost in the Machine from Superman: The Animated Series. That episode shows that Lex doesn't give a damn about Mercy so BvS took inspiration from that. TAS at least bothered DOING something with Mercy before that episode, which is more than BvS can say. Exactly this. As said before, Mercy could've been a real stand out character in the BvS and could've worked in multiple ways in future films - In the comics she is an Amazon, this would've been a good way to explain why Lex was keeping tabs on Diana because she told him about her, as well as other things like the Gods of mythology and the aliens out there in the known universe which would've added more dimension to Lex's scheming. Making her a cyborg, like in other media, would've been a good way to foreshadow Cyborg and Metallo. Or heck just having her be a kick-ass bodyguard would've been enough to make her a scene stealing character. In BvS she did little to nothing, you could've called her "Miss Ima Goodworkerlady" and it wouldn't have made a single difference.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 8, 2017 17:42:10 GMT
You MCU fans are so dumb that you always need everything spoon fed to you. It doesn't matter if Mercy was loyal to Lex.
For Wonder Woman, it wasn't about deserve, it was about what she believed. And for Lex, it wasn't about loyalty, it was about expendability. Lex considers all of his employees, including Mercy, to be expendable.
And that is where they (and you) don't understand the characters. They changed things to the point they are In Name Only. She might as well been Ms. Tessmacher. But, then again, that would have been a big change, also. What was the point of bringing up Wonder Woman? I'm still waiting for him to explain how Lex is as rounded the other DCEU villains like Zod, Dr. Poison, and Ares but he has yet to do so and just calls us "dumb MCU fans"...
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 8, 2017 17:47:07 GMT
TAS at least bothered DOING something with Mercy before that episode, which is more than BvS can say. Exactly this. As said before, Mercy could've been a real stand out character in the BvS and could've worked in multiple ways in future films - In the comics she is an Amazon, this would've been a good way to explain why Lex was keeping tabs on Diana because she told him about her, as well as other things like the Gods of mythology and the aliens out there in the known universe which would've added more dimension to Lex's scheming. Making her a cyborg, like in other media, would've been a good way to foreshadow Cyborg and Metallo. Or heck just having her be a kick-ass bodyguard would've been enough to make her a scene stealing character. In BvS she did little to nothing, you could've called her "Miss Ima Goodworkerlady" and it wouldn't have made a single difference. Hell, they had an easy way of explaining why we didn't hear a peep from Batman during the Kryptonian attack and why Joker and Harley are still alive despite Batman being fine killing people: Some time in the past, Joker and Harley kill Robin. Batman finds them in the middle of it and goes into a blind rage beating Joker to a pulp. Robin gives some sign he's not dead so Batman gets him out of there while the police collect the battered Joker and terrified Harley. Robin dies, and Batman is broken up enough over this to retire. Joker is in a coma and has to have metal teeth and stuff installed to make up for the sheer damage Batman did to him this time, and Harley is sent to Prison. Batman comes OUT of retirement after Superman debuts and the Kryptonians attack, but now he's more bitter and ruthless. This is why Clark is only noticing him NOW and didn't mention anything about him in MOS. Also he wonders if this is a new Batman copycat and not the older more noble one. Joker remains in his coma at Arkham until someone plays a news report about Batman coming back, this wakes him up and he makes plans to escape and get Harley. Setting up Suicide Squad.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jul 9, 2017 10:45:25 GMT
The only ones I cared much about were Zemo, Vulture, Ares, and Loki. Otherwise, MCU's tend to be forgettable and lame, while DCEU's are actively terrible.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 9, 2017 13:58:35 GMT
And that is where they (and you) don't understand the characters. They changed things to the point they are In Name Only. She might as well been Ms. Tessmacher. But, then again, that would have been a big change, also. What was the point of bringing up Wonder Woman? I'm still waiting for him to explain how Lex is as rounded the other DCEU villains like Zod, Dr. Poison, and Ares but he has yet to do so and just calls us "dumb MCU fans"... Lex is a thing to get to other things. He's worse than an MCU villain in that he doesn't even need to be in the movie. He's incidental to the movie. What happens in the movie that has to do with Lex? He acquires Kryptonite so Batman could get it to fight Superman. Batman could have gotten it from a museum or had it brought over himself. Actually, that would have been a cool scene to have Bruce (instead of that faceless/nameless guy) walk onto the beach when the kid pulls it out of the water. That makes the senator useless because she was only there to not get the Kryptonite into the country (so Lex had to smuggle it) and die in a pointless scene. Even then if they took Lex out of the equation, and left the senator, Keefe could have brought the bomb in himself. He was disgruntled with Superman, so there is his MO. Then Lex is the one that gets Superman to fight Batman. Lex is unneeded for this because they had reason to want to fight without him. The last thing that Lex is there for is to create Doomsday. Also unneeded for this. The ship was still working. The robots inside were still flying around and the overall computer systems were still running. Have it that the scout ships go out and find dead Kryptonians (they are constantly scanning) and bring them back to the ship.* Over the many months between MoS and BvS, Doomsday (Bizarro is a better idea for this) is created out of Zod's tainted (Phantom Zone) body. This would be foreshadow for Justice League and why it takes so long for Kal El to come back. The ship identifies Kal's dead body and bring him back to the ship. Since his body isn't tainted by the Phantom Zone, he'd come back as himself. *This would be a precaution for when scout ships and teams might land on a hostile planet. Also, Kryptonians recycle themselves anyway.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 9, 2017 14:02:58 GMT
And hell, Luthor's whole spiel about "God cannot be all-powerful if he is all-Good" fell apart as soon as he discovered what Kryptonite could do. It's proof that Superman is not all-powerful.
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