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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 28, 2017 7:53:05 GMT
Great article: How The DCEU Changed The Marvel Plan & Won
The DCEU's strategy has been so successful that even MCU is copying DCEU. DCEU introduced Wonder Woman and Aquaman in BvS before giving them their own solo movies. What does MCU do? MCU copies DCEU by introducing Black Panther in Civil War before giving him his own solo movie.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Jun 28, 2017 8:37:02 GMT
Great article: How The DCEU Changed The Marvel Plan & Won
The DCEU's strategy has been so successful that even MCU is copying DCEU. DCEU introduced Wonder Woman and Aquaman in BvS before giving them their own solo movies. What does MCU do? MCU copies DCEU by introducing Black Panther in Civil War before giving him his own solo movie.
A decent find from a sweet young man. Any way you spin this, successful DCEU is MCU 2.0 or maybe 1.5. Wonder Woman is good but it isn't a quantum leap for the genre. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 28, 2017 9:00:01 GMT
Great article: How The DCEU Changed The Marvel Plan & Won
The DCEU's strategy has been so successful that even MCU is copying DCEU. DCEU introduced Wonder Woman and Aquaman in BvS before giving them their own solo movies. What does MCU do? MCU copies DCEU by introducing Black Panther in Civil War before giving him his own solo movie.
Wonder Woman is good but it isn't a quantum leap for the genre.
yes it's just that, quantum leaps are the tiniest of leaps in quantum physics, but are of huge significance scientifically. Equally, WW broke the female superhero-lead and male director curse.
So, WW may be a small step for a woman, but it is a giant leap for the superhero genre. QED
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Jun 28, 2017 9:08:51 GMT
Wonder Woman is good but it isn't a quantum leap for the genre.
yes it's just that, quantum leaps are the tiniest of leaps in quantum physics, but are of huge significance scientifically. Equally, WW broke the female superhero-lead and male director curse.
So, WW may be a small step for a woman, but it is a giant leap for the superhero genre. QED
On that we'll have to disagree. I see it as a giant leap for women in filmmaking more than a watershed for the genre. I don't see any other studios making radical shifts in their strategy to accommodate the new "Wonder Woman paradigm" - outside of the DCEU that is. |
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Post by sostie on Jun 28, 2017 9:28:46 GMT
Aquaman! Are you fucking kidding me. A brief piece of video footage of Aquaman constitutes an introduction? And DCEU copies MCU by introducing characters in solo films before making a "team" film? |
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Post by Marv on Jun 28, 2017 9:44:18 GMT
Fox did it first with Wolverine anyhow.
But on to this Male director/Female superhero curse...I don't really see that historically. I mean Mathew Vaughn directed Kick Ass which is realistically both a Kick Ass and Hit Girl movie. I'd even argue Hit Girl goes through more of an arc throughout. And she was incredibly well received.
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Post by sostie on Jun 28, 2017 9:52:34 GMT
Sony did it first with Wolverine anyhow. Also Elektra was introduced in Daredevil before given her own film. And Luke Cage introduced in Jessica Jones (before BvS) and then given his own series |
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Post by Marv on Jun 28, 2017 9:53:55 GMT
Sony did it first with Wolverine anyhow. Also Elektra was introduced in Daredevil before given her own film. And Luke Cage introduced in Jessica Jones (before BvS) and then given his own series At this point it's an old trick. But we can all thank the DCEU for introducing us to it last year. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 28, 2017 10:15:07 GMT
yes it's just that, quantum leaps are the tiniest of leaps in quantum physics, but are of huge significance scientifically. Equally, WW broke the female superhero-lead and male director curse.
So, WW may be a small step for a woman, but it is a giant leap for the superhero genre. QED
On that we'll have to disagree. I see it as a giant leap for women in filmmaking more than a watershed for the genre. I don't see any other studios making radical shifts in their strategy to accommodate the new "Wonder Woman paradigm" - outside of the DCEU that is. that is likely true; still, I liked the melodious flow of my paraphrasing. To accommodate, WW is only a small step for the genre, but a giant leap for women in super hero filmmaking, and probably for the development of the DCEU too. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 28, 2017 10:29:48 GMT
Sony did it first with Wolverine anyhow. But on to this Male director/Female superhero curse...I don't really see that historically. I mean Mathew Vaughn directed Kick Ass which is realistically both a Kick Ass and Hit Girl movie. I'd even argue Hit Girl goes through more of an arc throughout. And she was incredibly well received. what is hailed as historic milestone is that
(i) we finally have a commercially and artistically (e.g. second best reviewed on RT) successful female-led superhero motion picture (after Supergirl, Catwoman, Elektra - all super flops); and
(ii) WW is only the second (!) women-directed superhero movie in an infamous macho genre (the first one was only a minor effort).
Think that MCU as example, after over 15 movies they did not achieve one of these milestones; also they ousted the female director from Thor2, resulting in actors not willing to participate in MCU anymore.
These items under (i) and (ii) are facts and cannot be shifted like goalposts by declaring Kick Ass a female-led superhero movie, this would be absurd and cynical; and would only purport that one does not know the difference between a lead and a supporting performance.
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Post by sostie on Jun 28, 2017 11:17:32 GMT
Sony did it first with Wolverine anyhow. But on to this Male director/Female superhero curse...I don't really see that historically. I mean Mathew Vaughn directed Kick Ass which is realistically both a Kick Ass and Hit Girl movie. I'd even argue Hit Girl goes through more of an arc throughout. And she was incredibly well received. what is hailed as historic milestoned are that
(i) we finally have a commercially and artistically (e.g. second best reviewed on RT) successful female-led superhero motion picture (after Supergirl, Batwoman, Elektra - all super flops); and
I agree what was achieved was historic in the context of female led comic books. It's one that didn't suck and had a healthy BO (if the international figures were available Modesty Blaise might have had call to be the first successful Female CBM in the 60's). Though it isn't the first successful female led hero/action movie. It has achieved much in a sub genre, but is not a trailblazer in the larger genre of action films. This more of a Hollywood issue than an MCU issue....many, many comic book movies were made before the MCU started and none had a female director (though the other female directed CBM film you mention was a Marvel Studios film). In general studios seem reluctant to let women helm big budget movies (though I'd think I'd be right in saying there are a lot less female directors out there) From what I've read I would have been reluctant to make the Thor film Jenkins wanted to make, and she departed saying she'd like to work with Marvel again. But I am genuinley interested to know who refused to participate with Marvel because of it. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jun 28, 2017 12:32:04 GMT
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jun 28, 2017 12:50:12 GMT
Great article: How The DCEU Changed The Marvel Plan & Won
The DCEU's strategy has been so successful that even MCU is copying DCEU. DCEU introduced Wonder Woman and Aquaman in BvS before giving them their own solo movies. What does MCU do? MCU copies DCEU by introducing Black Panther in Civil War before giving him his own solo movie.
eh , DCEU have made 4 films, 3 that are terrible and one thats good, how are DCEU winning  ? why are DCEU fans so deluded ?
What was the biggest CBM film last year ? Captain America Civil War, what is the highest grossing CBM movie ever? The Avengers , come back to me when DCEU is chrurning out criticall allclaimed films that are highest earners either by year or ever.
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Post by Marv on Jun 28, 2017 13:19:35 GMT
I misunderstood what was meant by the 'curse' then. I thought it was that male directors with female lead superheroes never worked, and that this was the first one that did.
No need to get defensive about goalpost shifting. If you want to make this some milestone I'm all for it. I just don't see it as all that special since there have been several extremely well done female superheroes/villains over the years and the fact that their names weren't on the title card didn't really stop them from being the main attraction.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 28, 2017 14:45:44 GMT
Wonder Woman is good but it isn't a quantum leap for the genre.
yes it's just that, quantum leaps are the tiniest of leaps in quantum physics, but are of huge significance scientifically. Equally, WW broke the female superhero-lead and male director curse.
So, WW may be a small step for a woman, but it is a giant leap for the superhero genre. QED
Agreed. Many websites have posted articles saying that Wonder Woman could open the door not only for many more female-led superhero movies but also for more female Directors to be given opportunities to direct a big-budget franchise movie. I would agree that's a significant, giant leap for the CBM genre. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 28, 2017 14:47:42 GMT
yes it's just that, quantum leaps are the tiniest of leaps in quantum physics, but are of huge significance scientifically. Equally, WW broke the female superhero-lead and male director curse.
So, WW may be a small step for a woman, but it is a giant leap for the superhero genre. QED
On that we'll have to disagree. I see it as a giant leap for women in filmmaking more than a watershed for the genre. I don't see any other studios making radical shifts in their strategy to accommodate the new "Wonder Woman paradigm" - outside of the DCEU that is. MCU did. MCU refused to make a female-led superhero movie for 9 years. Now the only reason MCU is making Captain Marvel is because they're trying to jump on the Wonder Woman bandwagon. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 28, 2017 14:50:33 GMT
Aquaman! Are you fucking kidding me. A brief piece of video footage of Aquaman constitutes an introduction? And DCEU copies MCU by introducing characters in solo films before making a "team" film? Nope. The only DCEU character that has had their own solo film before a "team" film is Superman. Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg, Harley Quinn, Deadshot. They've already been introduced in a "team" film before their first solo film. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 28, 2017 14:58:09 GMT
But on to this Male director/Female superhero curse...I don't really see that historically. I mean Mathew Vaughn directed Kick Ass which is realistically both a Kick Ass and Hit Girl movie. I'd even argue Hit Girl goes through more of an arc throughout. And she was incredibly well received. Not really.
1st, the movie was called "Kick-Ass", not "Hit Girl". It can be argued that the lead character of "Kick-Ass" was Kick-Ass himself (Aaron Taylor-Johnson). Hit Girl certainly stood out in the movie, but that's the same as Harley Quinn standing out in Suicide Squad but Suicide Squad was an ensemble movie and not a Harley Quinn movie. Wonder Woman is a true solo female-led superhero movie.
2nd, with a worldwide box office of only $96 million, Kick-Ass was nowhere near the commercial success that Wonder Woman is.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 28, 2017 15:02:56 GMT
Sony did it first with Wolverine anyhow. Also Elektra was introduced in Daredevil before given her own film. And Luke Cage introduced in Jessica Jones (before BvS) and then given his own series And neither Daredevil nor Elektra were successful films.
As for Luke Cage, that's not a movie, that's a TV series. TV series have spin-offs all the time. The Bionic Woman was introduced on The Six Million Dollar Man before getting her own spin-off series. The Flash was introduced on Arrow before getting his own TV series (before Jessica Jones and Luke Cage). There are plenty of other TV series that are spin-offs.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 28, 2017 15:12:04 GMT
Sony did it first with Wolverine anyhow. But on to this Male director/Female superhero curse...I don't really see that historically. I mean Mathew Vaughn directed Kick Ass which is realistically both a Kick Ass and Hit Girl movie. I'd even argue Hit Girl goes through more of an arc throughout. And she was incredibly well received. what is hailed as historic milestone is that
(i) we finally have a commercially and artistically (e.g. second best reviewed on RT) successful female-led superhero motion picture (after Supergirl, Batwoman, Elektra - all super flops); and
(ii) WW is only the second (!) women-directed superhero movie in an infamous macho genre (the first one was only a minor effort).
Think that MCU as example, after over 15 movies they did not achieve one of these milestones; also they ousted the female director from Thor2, resulting in actors not willing to participate in MCU anymore.
These items under (i) and (ii) are facts and cannot be shifted like goalposts by declaring Kick Ass a female-led superhero movie, this would be absurd and cynical; and would only purport that one does not know the difference between a lead and a supporting performance.
That's correct. No matter how much MCU fans want to deny it, (i) and (ii) are facts that MCU still hasn't achieved after 9 years and 15 movies.
And also correct that Kick-Ass wasn't a Hit Girl movie. It can be argued that the lead character in Kick-Ass was Kick-Ass himself (Aaron Taylor-Johnson) and not Hit Girl. Hit Girl certainly stood out, but that's the same as Harley Quinn standing out in Suicide Squad, but Suicide Squad was an ensemble movie and not a Harley Quinn movie. Wonder Woman is a true solo female-led superhero movie.
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? why are DCEU fans so deluded ?