PnkELee
Sophomore
@pnkelee
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Post by PnkELee on Jul 24, 2017 0:05:37 GMT
But now that Bran has returned to Westeros, I'm beginning to wonder what his next step could be. Bran is the rightful head of House Stark, and although he may be willing to relinquish that claim to a half brother who is Ned Stark's son (as Sansa did), would the knowledge that Jon is actually a Targaryen change this? Even if he doesn't contest Jon being Lord of Winterfell, could this cause Sansa to do so, especially after the friction that has started to develop in episode 1? Read more: imdb2.freeforums.net/thread/44609/bran-jon#ixzz4nhZlo6rU-Sansa would be a fooking fool not to. Lol -Bran? Without an army, claims dont matter. No ones going to lead a revolt on behalf of a spacey cripple who cant begat children unless they seek to rule over and through him. Theres Sansa..but Im unsure of how matrilineal unions work in GOT. Either way, I doubt even the Northerners are loyal enough to prop up the dying house of their former liege. The Targaryen blood may not sit well with the North. Jon, for all they know, is a rape baby. I could see them seeking to overthrow him.
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Post by xystophoros on Jul 24, 2017 5:29:29 GMT
I think it should be noted that Sansa never had the title of being the head of House Stark. The Starks were basically wiped out by the Boltons, and then upon reclaiming Winterfell, both she and Jon were in a position to make a claim. She gave it to Jon. Bran, on the other hand, was acting Lord of Winterfell already in the absence of Ned and Robb. He held court and tried to make decisions that were in the best interests of their vassals. Ultimately he yielded the castle to Theon because he thought that would protect his people. But upon returning to a Stark-controlled Winterfell, why wouldn't he assume he would be Lord? Unless being the 3ER is something that excludes him from Lordship? My point is why would Bran want to be Lord of Winterfell when he is so much more now? This is the genius of the show and books- They continually make people think of things that aren't too terribly important. They mix the mundane and ordinary of society with the fantastical and the mundane still wins out every time despite the very clear possibility that most of humankind will fall and a new society will rise from it just like it did at least a few times before. So we tend to care more about who will rule on what throne more than the notion of a bunch of snow zombies coming to kill everyone. Bran, more than anyone, knows what's coming and is tasked with how to defeat it in a particular way that Jon is not privy to. Not knowing what Bran will do, but it makes little sense to me to think Bran is going to concern himself with ruling Winterfell before, during, or after the whitewalkers coming to town. In any event, assuming Bran isn't interested, Jon would not take precedent over Sansa if not for democracy taking root in the North which of course would mean the men would win out. We care more about who finally sits on the Iron Throne because that's a human drama, with great characters all maneuvering and scheming and backstabbing to climb the ladder. But the White Walkers, while an existential threat to humanity, aren't as interesting from a dramatic point of view. There's no backstabbing, scheming, dissent, disloyalty, infighting, or even surprises from the White Walkers -- they are an implacable, unstoppable army with one mind and a leader of absolute authority. They're like the Borg -- you can't negotiate with them, you can't placate them, you can't trick them or try to buy time. They are dead set on destroying and assimilating, and nothing will change that. The real question is: How will GoT's writers keep the show as amazing, tense and dramatic as it's ever been when the final showdown with the White Walkers becomes the main and only focal point?
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 24, 2017 14:30:48 GMT
But now that Bran has returned to Westeros, I'm beginning to wonder what his next step could be. Bran is the rightful head of House Stark, and although he may be willing to relinquish that claim to a half brother who is Ned Stark's son (as Sansa did), would the knowledge that Jon is actually a Targaryen change this? Even if he doesn't contest Jon being Lord of Winterfell, could this cause Sansa to do so, especially after the friction that has started to develop in episode 1? Read more: imdb2.freeforums.net/thread/44609/bran-jon#ixzz4nhZlo6rU-Sansa would be a fooking fool not to. Lol -Bran? Without an army, claims dont matter. No ones going to lead a revolt on behalf of a spacey cripple who cant begat children unless they seek to rule over and through him. Theres Sansa..but Im unsure of how matrilineal unions work in GOT. Either way, I doubt even the Northerners are loyal enough to prop up the dying house of their former liege. The Targaryen blood may not sit well with the North. Jon, for all they know, is a rape baby. I could see them seeking to overthrow him. That the rape happened is what is believed by many. The book has never said it was a rape. There are a lot of theories surrounding the issue. Prince Rhaegar is believed to have been a very nice man. There are some theorists who even suggest that Lyanna willingly ran away and some theorists have even hinted on marriage between them.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 24, 2017 15:42:17 GMT
My point is why would Bran want to be Lord of Winterfell when he is so much more now? This is the genius of the show and books- They continually make people think of things that aren't too terribly important. They mix the mundane and ordinary of society with the fantastical and the mundane still wins out every time despite the very clear possibility that most of humankind will fall and a new society will rise from it just like it did at least a few times before. So we tend to care more about who will rule on what throne more than the notion of a bunch of snow zombies coming to kill everyone. Bran, more than anyone, knows what's coming and is tasked with how to defeat it in a particular way that Jon is not privy to. Not knowing what Bran will do, but it makes little sense to me to think Bran is going to concern himself with ruling Winterfell before, during, or after the whitewalkers coming to town. In any event, assuming Bran isn't interested, Jon would not take precedent over Sansa if not for democracy taking root in the North which of course would mean the men would win out. We care more about who finally sits on the Iron Throne because that's a human drama, with great characters all maneuvering and scheming and backstabbing to climb the ladder. But the White Walkers, while an existential threat to humanity, aren't as interesting from a dramatic point of view. There's no backstabbing, scheming, dissent, disloyalty, infighting, or even surprises from the White Walkers -- they are an implacable, unstoppable army with one mind and a leader of absolute authority. They're like the Borg -- you can't negotiate with them, you can't placate them, you can't trick them or try to buy time. They are dead set on destroying and assimilating, and nothing will change that. The real question is: How will GoT's writers keep the show as amazing, tense and dramatic as it's ever been when the final showdown with the White Walkers becomes the main and only focal point? Agreed.
To me, the moment Hardhome aired, white walkers became an issue for the viewer. I think they are a catalyst for human drama. Hopefully. the Winter King will start talking a bit, but even if he doesn't, they will impact things based on how they oppress the characters we love.
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pk9
Sophomore
@pk9
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Post by pk9 on Jul 24, 2017 21:06:17 GMT
The Targaryen blood may not sit well with the North. Jon, for all they know, is a rape baby. I could see them seeking to overthrow him. That the rape happened is what is believed by many. The book has never said it was a rape. There are a lot of theories surrounding the issue. Prince Rhaegar is believed to have been a very nice man. There are some theorists who even suggest that Lyanna willingly ran away and some theorists have even hinted on marriage between them. "Jon, for all they know, is a rape baby." As far as Northern politics is concerned, it doesn't matter what really happened. It's that they think happened that matters. There are exactly zero people alive who can refute Robert's version of the events.
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Post by Marv on Jul 24, 2017 21:16:21 GMT
Regardless, Jon Snows heritage is still that of a bastard. A high born bastard, but still a bastard. That's why as interesting as his heritage is it still doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 24, 2017 22:04:43 GMT
To me, the underlying premise of Game of Thrones is blowing up tradition.
Jon's a great example. His best shot in life was to be Lord Commander at Night's Watch, yet he manages to have people begging him to be King of the North.
His bastard status matters only as much as the people's concern for it.
With that great premise, people repeatedly try to ruin that with the notion that he should be king for being a Targaryen.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 24, 2017 22:19:23 GMT
That the rape happened is what is believed by many. The book has never said it was a rape. There are a lot of theories surrounding the issue. Prince Rhaegar is believed to have been a very nice man. There are some theorists who even suggest that Lyanna willingly ran away and some theorists have even hinted on marriage between them. "Jon, for all they know, is a rape baby." As far as Northern politics is concerned, it doesn't matter what really happened. It's that they think happened that matters. There are exactly zero people alive who can refute Robert's version of the events. The three eyed Raven can. Northern people don't yet have time to be northern at a time when their existence is in threat.
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pk9
Sophomore
@pk9
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Post by pk9 on Jul 25, 2017 0:44:40 GMT
In order for Bran to do this, he will need to look into the past again. He hasn't seen what actually happened between Lyanna and Rhaegar yet.
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Post by Aj_June on Jul 25, 2017 9:50:27 GMT
In order for Bran to do this, he will need to look into the past again. He hasn't seen what actually happened between Lyanna and Rhaegar yet. They didn't show Bran at hardhome either but he mentioned what had happened at hardhome in s07e01. It seems he has reached a powerful state in which he knows events of past. Bran will in fact aid in uniting entire realm under Jon Snow and particularly whole north.
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pk9
Sophomore
@pk9
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Post by pk9 on Jul 25, 2017 12:20:49 GMT
They didn't need to show Bran at Hardhome because the viewers already saw what happened. Currently we have no confirmation of the exact nature of the relationship between Lyanna and Rhaegar. They aren't gonna be able to get away with just having Bran exposit such a key plot point that's been built up for years. If they started doing that, there would be no need to film anything for the remaining episodes other than Bran talking. "Euron just attacked Yara's fleet and captured Ellaria Sand and delivered her to Cersei." "Cersei just had the Mountain kill Ellaria's daughter and then rape her to death." "Daenerys just captured King's Landing and Jaime strangled Cersei." "The White Walkers breached the Wall but Azor Ahai rode on Drogon with a flaming sword and defeated them. The end."
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