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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 19:41:26 GMT
Than that is what its like nothing you can do about it so why worry.
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Post by mikef6 on Aug 2, 2017 21:34:24 GMT
Probably not because the O.P.'s premise (the same premise as many, if not most, religions) is that a human personality and identity is something that exists outside of a perception of the individual's brain. Increasingly, brain research is showing that everything about us - including our perception that there is something like a soul or spirit apart from our life functions - is, indeed, a product of the brain and when the brain dies so will everything else about a person. There will be nothing left to go to blackness or heaven or hell. "Increasingly, brain research is showing that everything about us-including our perception that there is something like a soul or spirit apart from our life functions-is indeed, a product of the brain".
It's one thing to live in a fantasy world and delusion, but your statement is so retarded it defies all possible math and logic.
You can deny reality all you want, and live in a dream world, but you have to admit it is retarded to believe that tests performed on organic life in the material world with the perceptions you mention can possibly demonstrate anything outside that very sphere.
You obviously either failed Geometry and Math, or cheated to pass.
It may be one thing to live in a fantasy world and delusion and your nonsensical response demonstrates that. I’m afraid that math and geometry have nothing to do with the discussion on this thread. The advances being made by scientists studying the human brain are astonishing. (It helps that I have a son with a PhD in Neuroscience and is a published researcher in the field.) Research is continually showing that all of our perceptions come from our brain, including the sense we all might have that our real self, our personality, our consciousness is something separate, a soul or spirit, that exists and might continue to exist after the death of the brain. This is an illusion. That consciousness dies with the brain. Wishing that weren’t so doesn’t make any difference. Denying science, flinging junior high school level insults (e.g. retarded), and going na-na-na-na with your hands over your ears won’t either.
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Post by howardschumann on Aug 5, 2017 17:46:29 GMT
The advances being made by scientists studying the human brain are astonishing. (It helps that I have a son with a PhD in Neuroscience and is a published researcher in the field.) Research is continually showing that all of our perceptions come from our brain, including the sense we all might have that our real self, our personality, our consciousness is something separate, a soul or spirit, that exists and might continue to exist after the death of the brain. This is an illusion. That consciousness dies with the brain. Wishing that weren’t so doesn’t make any difference. Denying science, flinging junior high school level insults (e.g. retarded), and going na-na-na-na with your hands over your ears won’t either. I am sure you are correct that the consensus among neuroscientists is that there is no reality outside of matter and that consciousness is a physical property of the brain. With no disrespect for your son who I am sure is a brilliant scientist, there are other views from scientists, psychiatrists, and philosophers. Psychiatrist Stanislav Grof says that, “There is no doubt that there exists vast clinical and experimental evidence showing significant interconnections and correlations between the anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry of the brain, on the one hand, and states of consciousness, on the other. However, it represents a major logical jump to infer from the available data that these correlations represent a proof that the brain is actually the source of consciousness, and, in fact, the data largely points to the fact that consciousness is non-local.” Australian philosopher David Chalmers’ view is that, rather than produced by the brain, consciousness is a fundamental force of the universe, like gravity or mass. In this way, consciousness came into being when the universe began, and exists everywhere and in everything. A similar view is put forward by philosopher Robert Forman, who suggests that consciousness exists as a kind of field, outside the brain, and that the function of the brain is to ‘pick up’ consciousness, like a radio receiver, and then to ‘channel’ it into our individual organism. Others offering models for transpersonal experience are David Bohm’s idea of the implicate order, Rupert Sheldrake’s concept of morphogenetic fields, and Ervin Laszlo’s hypothesis of the psi field or Akashic field. Physicists Sir Roger Penrose and Dr. Stuart Hameroff also suggest that consciousness is something applied to the brain, not generated by it. Korean Professor Daegene Song concludes that mathematical evidence shows that human consciousness cannot be simulated by a computing device because self-observation is a unique mechanism in the process of consciousness. Song states that, "If consciousness cannot be represented in the same way all other physical systems are represented, it may not be something that arises out of a physical system like the brain. The brain and consciousness are linked together, but the brain does not produce consciousness. Consciousness is something altogether different and separate." Physicist Max Planck says "Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve." My own experience tells me that we are more than an accident of probabilities or an arrangement of material particles. We may be able to construct explanations for every object or phenomenon in nature in terms of the interaction of subatomic particles but, as author Bernardo Kastrup put it, “when it comes to consciousness, nothing allows us to deduce the properties of subjective experiences - the redness of red, the bitterness of regret, the warmth of fire, from the mass, momentum, spin, charge, or any other property of subatomic particles in the brain.” Aldous Huxley in “Doors of Perception” posits that our brains, rather than being generators of consciousness are reflectors that filter out the true nature of reality to keep us from being overwhelmed. This is somewhat akin to Carl Jung’s theory of the collective unconscious which can penetrate the filter and manifest itself through dreams, visions, and the like. While no scientific proof exists for the theory that the brain generates consciousness, there are numerous observations indicating that consciousness can under certain circumstances function independently of the brain and of the world of matter. One example is when paranormal experiences are a result of reduced brain activity such as in NDEs (Near-Death Experiences) where, not only is brain activity reduced but in some prominent cases it is almost non-existent. Individuals, who are clinically dead (in a state of cardiac death and even brain death), are able to observe their bodies and the rescue procedures from above and “travel” freely to other parts of the same building or various remote places. While many have different interpretations of what they experienced based upon their beliefs, upbringing, etc., there is a common thread of NDE experiences that are shared by most. These include separation from their body, an ability to observe what is taking place in a hospital or ambulance, even under an anesthetic, the feeling of traveling through a tunnel with a bright light at the end, having a feeling of complete peace and unconditional love, meeting a “being of light,” seeing loved ones who have died, having a “life review” then being told they had to go back. These experiences are not random and illogical as are dreams and hallucinations but are coherent, logical, and highly structured and have had a profound influence on the rest of the experiencer’s life. Kastrup states that, “consensus reality is attempting to evoke something transcendent. The transcendent truth may only be able to express itself through the illusion it generates.” In other words, life is meant to be a puzzle, to prod us to see beyond the experience of our being separate selves existing in a random universe subject only to the laws of chance. Author Kingsley L. Dennis put it this way, “The sacred is not a concept but an experiential understanding, of life beyond our limited selves – of transcendence and immersion simultaneously. And just as the sacred is an instrument of the human, so the human is an instrument of the sacred. The sacred worldview is one that accepts not only the metaphysical but also the magical and the mysterious – the magnificent wonder in everything and all.”
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Aug 5, 2017 22:43:38 GMT
In response to the OP...
Then you'd you insane eventually. But that's okay. Because in any of the eternities that they offer you as an afterlife there are only two logical conclusions: you're either changed into a being so completely different to yourself (and I mean that your mind and personality changes so drastically that you are essentially a completely different person to the one you are now) - in which case the "reward" or "punishment" you get is actually given to someone else because you're not going to receive it; or you're going to go insane - because no matter how nice/awful the surroundings you're in - if you're stuck their for infinity you'll go mad.
If the sensory deprivation sensory gets me to that point quickly, there are worse things that could happen.
Now some of the more simpler minded people here will claim that they could happily spend an eternity doing the same thing over and over again. But even people with IQ's approaching single figures will eventually get bored of repeating themselves after billions of billions of years. That's the problem with eternity. It never ends. Never. And so whilst if you don't think about it "living forever" sounds pretty cool - it's actually the most horrific punishment that could ever be bestowed on anyone.
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Post by mikef6 on Aug 6, 2017 14:06:07 GMT
howardschumann Thanks for you detailed reply. This is, of course, a discussion that can have no conclusion. We will all find out eventually. Personally, I'm not expecting anything so won't be disappointed. Meanwhile, I will just enjoy being alive and aware and trying hard to Do No Harm at a minimum and maybe some Good along the way.
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Post by howardschumann on Aug 6, 2017 15:32:06 GMT
howardschumann Thanks for you detailed reply. This is, of course, a discussion that can have no conclusion. We will all find out eventually. Personally, I'm not expecting anything so won't be disappointed. Meanwhile, I will just enjoy being alive and aware and trying hard to Do No Harm at a minimum and maybe some Good along the way. "The answer my friend is blowin in the wind. The answer is blowing in the wind." - Bob Dylan Chances are strong that I will find out before you and see if I can give you the heads up. Meanwhile, there is no maybe about the Good you are doing.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 7, 2017 14:37:26 GMT
blackness. Not nothing like atheists believe in which you simply no longer exist. But nothing like a blank black emptiness, but you're still conscious and aware of yourself and all you can do is stare straight ahead into the blank black emptiness for ALL ETERNITY! Sorta like Hell minus the fire, pain and physical torture. ONLY mental torture of being alone, unable to move (no longer have a body) and surrounded in blank black emptiness for ALL ETERNITY. There would have to be more than just blackness. All those deceased who were experiencing it, for instance. The already-dead rack up into billions.
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Post by rizdek on Aug 8, 2017 6:58:59 GMT
blackness. Not nothing like atheists believe in which you simply no longer exist. But nothing like a blank black emptiness, but you're still conscious and aware of yourself and all you can do is stare straight ahead into the blank black emptiness for ALL ETERNITY! Sorta like Hell minus the fire, pain and physical torture. ONLY mental torture of being alone, unable to move (no longer have a body) and surrounded in blank black emptiness for ALL ETERNITY. But it'll be a relief to know everyone else is doing the same thing.
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Post by drystyx on Aug 8, 2017 20:50:34 GMT
"Increasingly, brain research is showing that everything about us-including our perception that there is something like a soul or spirit apart from our life functions-is indeed, a product of the brain".
It's one thing to live in a fantasy world and delusion, but your statement is so retarded it defies all possible math and logic.
You can deny reality all you want, and live in a dream world, but you have to admit it is retarded to believe that tests performed on organic life in the material world with the perceptions you mention can possibly demonstrate anything outside that very sphere.
You obviously either failed Geometry and Math, or cheated to pass.
It may be one thing to live in a fantasy world and delusion and your nonsensical response demonstrates that. I’m afraid that math and geometry have nothing to do with the discussion on this thread. The advances being made by scientists studying the human brain are astonishing. (It helps that I have a son with a PhD in Neuroscience and is a published researcher in the field.) Research is continually showing that all of our perceptions come from our brain, including the sense we all might have that our real self, our personality, our consciousness is something separate, a soul or spirit, that exists and might continue to exist after the death of the brain. This is an illusion. That consciousness dies with the brain. Wishing that weren’t so doesn’t make any difference. Denying science, flinging junior high school level insults (e.g. retarded), and going na-na-na-na with your hands over your ears won’t either. You keep proving my point, and keep proving you are covering your face and wishing your way to be reality. You obviously have never earned even a high school diploma, because you have zero grasp of logic.
You even admit that "all of our perceptions come from our brain", so you just proved my point. All researchers can do is measure those things we perceive in the brain.
You can pray all you want that this is totality of existence, but only a lunatic with no grasp of logic or math would do that, since we know there are more than one type of perception measured just inside the brain.
Like I said, you can live in your fantasy world, but when you try to brag that it isn't fantasy, that it's Science, you show yourself to be living in total delusion, and total ignorance.
I'd love to have your faith.
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Post by mikef6 on Aug 8, 2017 20:53:33 GMT
It may be one thing to live in a fantasy world and delusion and your nonsensical response demonstrates that. I’m afraid that math and geometry have nothing to do with the discussion on this thread. The advances being made by scientists studying the human brain are astonishing. (It helps that I have a son with a PhD in Neuroscience and is a published researcher in the field.) Research is continually showing that all of our perceptions come from our brain, including the sense we all might have that our real self, our personality, our consciousness is something separate, a soul or spirit, that exists and might continue to exist after the death of the brain. This is an illusion. That consciousness dies with the brain. Wishing that weren’t so doesn’t make any difference. Denying science, flinging junior high school level insults (e.g. retarded), and going na-na-na-na with your hands over your ears won’t either. You keep proving my point, and keep proving you are covering your face and wishing your way to be reality. You obviously have never earned even a high school diploma, because you have zero grasp of logic.
You even admit that "all of our perceptions come from our brain", so you just proved my point. All researchers can do is measure those things we perceive in the brain.
You can pray all you want that this is totality of existence, but only a lunatic with no grasp of logic or math would do that, since we know there are more than one type of perception measured just inside the brain.
Like I said, you can live in your fantasy world, but when you try to brag that it isn't fantasy, that it's Science, you show yourself to be living in total delusion, and total ignorance.
I'd love to have your faith.
What? Would you repeat that please? It makes no sense. You must have a grasp of logic and meth.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 9, 2017 13:48:52 GMT
Probably not because the O.P.'s premise (the same premise as many, if not most, religions) is that a human personality and identity is something that exists outside of a perception of the individual's brain. Increasingly, brain research is showing that everything about us - including our perception that there is something like a soul or spirit apart from our life functions - is, indeed, a product of the brain and when the brain dies so will everything else about a person. There will be nothing left to go to blackness or heaven or hell. "Increasingly, brain research is showing that everything about us-including our perception that there is something like a soul or spirit apart from our life functions-is indeed, a product of the brain".
It's one thing to live in a fantasy world and delusion, but your statement is so retarded it defies all possible math and logic.
You can deny reality all you want, and live in a dream world, but you have to admit it is retarded to believe that tests performed on organic life in the material world with the perceptions you mention can possibly demonstrate anything outside that very sphere.
You obviously either failed Geometry and Math, or cheated to pass.
How would that statement "defy math and logic" exactly?
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Post by drystyx on Aug 9, 2017 20:16:08 GMT
"Increasingly, brain research is showing that everything about us-including our perception that there is something like a soul or spirit apart from our life functions-is indeed, a product of the brain".
It's one thing to live in a fantasy world and delusion, but your statement is so retarded it defies all possible math and logic.
You can deny reality all you want, and live in a dream world, but you have to admit it is retarded to believe that tests performed on organic life in the material world with the perceptions you mention can possibly demonstrate anything outside that very sphere.
You obviously either failed Geometry and Math, or cheated to pass.
How would that statement "defy math and logic" exactly? No wonder I aced Math in college while you guys flunked or cheated to pass.
It's Geometry. You idiots (sorry, but that's the nicest word to come up with for you trolls) try to test what is outside the brain by testing the brain. You can't possibly have earned even a sixth grade education.
You are a meter reader of the brain, not the brain. If you were a brain, you would be a different entity with each change of the brain, including each bit of data into it. Now, if you want to hold on to that science fiction hypothesis, the way "Our Glorious Leader" of the original board did, you can make a point, but that is the only possible way you can adhere to that fantasy.
If a gas meter becomes disabled, or just goes "kerplunk", the meter reader doesn't magically vanish with it unless there is something else going on outside the meter that has nothing to do with the meter.
Could be there is no sensation to read after the brain is disabled, but it is wishful thinking to believe that the brain being gone proves what happens outside the brain.
Set A is the perceptions enabled by the brain for the meter reader. Anyone who thinks that an unknown Set B of perceptions outside the brain can be measure by the brain is either a liar or a deluded moron. There is no other choice. Which are you?
You high school drop outs do tend to be control freaks, I understand, and you can't live with the unknown, so you grab onto anything you can, because it's safe, but it isn't logical or realistic. According to you, you want to make the entire world your little private playing field. You actually think that if your brain stops, you're free of any sensation. That's "wishful thinking". I hope it's true, but it's wishful thinking. You can strap all kinds of gadgets onto your head and measure sensations of your brain all you want, but all you get are the perceptions of the brain. To demand that this means more is moronic.
How to put this in terms you high school drop outs can understand? Okay. Testing perceptions outside the brain by testing the brain is like trying to find out what is added to a salt shaker by examining the pepper shaker. Takes a special "retard" for that extreme delusion.
Continue to humiliate yourselves with your ignorance. No offense.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 9, 2017 21:07:35 GMT
How would that statement "defy math and logic" exactly? No wonder I aced Math in college while you guys flunked or cheated to pass.
It's Geometry . . .
What is geometry? Nothing after my cut-off point there was about geometry or mathematics or logic. So again, what are you saying defies mathematics or logic?
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