|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2017 13:45:28 GMT
It was OK. The dialogue was superb as usual. The first scene almost ruins the episode. About as worse as the Highgarden. To me it would have been better to have Jaime captured, told the information, and released to tell Cersei. They have also completely left the notion that it takes time to travel places or are simply skipping through months at a time and we can assume that Jon has been away for several months. I also don't quite get why Jon isn't allowed to send a raven updating the North to things like he got a buttload of dragonglass. Maybe he has been and Sansa isn't updating the people. I can't stand Arya but I think she called it when she more or less told Sansa she wanted the North. I know there's a contingency of people that think Sansa is devious, but I'm not in that camp yet. She may become that way depending on what Littlefinger is plotting.
I'm not getting the same vibe from their conversation as I was thinking she was saying Sansa was in denial of the possibilities
Even if she were, it wouldn't help her cause to not tell them they have the tools to help against the enemy.
|
|
|
Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 14, 2017 13:53:19 GMT
Maybe he has been and Sansa isn't updating the people. I can't stand Arya but I think she called it when she more or less told Sansa she wanted the North. I know there's a contingency of people that think Sansa is devious, but I'm not in that camp yet. She may become that way depending on what Littlefinger is plotting.
I'm not getting the same vibe from their conversation as I was thinking she was saying Sansa was in denial of the possibilities
Even if she were, it wouldn't help her cause to not tell them they have the tools to help against the enemy.
I'm not convinced Sansa really thinks the dead are coming, she's focused on Cercei IMO. I get that you don't see her as a villain and that's ok but not updating Jon's supporters further their belief that he abandoned them or may be captured or dead which would absolutely further her goal of having the North. This is all just a theory but I can see it. I've haven't trusted Sansa since she didn't tell Jon about the Vale at the BoB.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2017 14:14:39 GMT
I know there's a contingency of people that think Sansa is devious, but I'm not in that camp yet. She may become that way depending on what Littlefinger is plotting.
I'm not getting the same vibe from their conversation as I was thinking she was saying Sansa was in denial of the possibilities
Even if she were, it wouldn't help her cause to not tell them they have the tools to help against the enemy.
I'm not convinced Sansa really thinks the dead are coming, she's focused on Cercei IMO. I get that you don't see her as a villain and that's ok but not updating Jon's supporters further their belief that he abandoned them or may be captured or dead which would absolutely further her goal of having the North. This is all just a theory but I can see it. I've haven't trusted Sansa since she didn't tell Jon about the Vale at the BoB. The show overall has turned into a guessing game of which is more important.
We know the white walkers are more important, but very few outside of the ones who have witnessed it believe that even in the North. They just chose Jon to rule them as a normal king.
Sansa is correct to be concerned about Cersei though which is why she is a good counterbalance to Jon. No matter which enemy comes first, she is making Winterfell ready while Jon is away doing something she specifically said she thought was a bad idea.
But back to the point, I don't think Sansa is not updating people. There's no evidence to suggest that at this point. Given the conveniences the plot allows for the story to progress, it could happen, I'm just not seeing it based on the actions I've seen.
Then again, I didn't know Jaime could swim a mile away in armor and a gold hand with water in his lungs either...
|
|
|
Post by kevin on Aug 14, 2017 14:22:55 GMT
One of my favorite things about the season so far is that the White Walkers seem like they'll be the main villains in the final 2 episodes. I think almost everyone expected this season to be about the battle for the Iron Throne and next season the battle against the White Walkers. It's very refreshing that they didn't decide to do that, but to go in a direction where everything is happening at the same time. Maybe there will come a truce and if that happens it will be very interesting to see how that plays out, because then everyone is not only thinking about the White Walkers, but also about who will take the throne afterwards. It adds another layer to the story and it's an interesting thing to do storywise.
Edit: Also those ravens looked great. It's rare to see birds in movies or on tv that don't look like CGI disasters.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2017 14:29:34 GMT
One of my favorite things about the season so far is that the White Walkers seem like they'll be the main villains in the final 2 episodes. I think almost everyone expected this season to be about the battle for the Iron Throne and next season the battle against the White Walkers. It's very refreshing that they didn't decide to do that, but to go in a direction where everything is happening at the same time. Maybe there will come a truce and if that happens it will be very interesting to see how that plays out, because then everyone is not only thinking about the White Walkers, but also about who will take the throne afterwards. It adds another layer to the story and it's an interesting thing to do storywise. Edit: Also those ravens looked great. It's rare to see birds in movies or on tv that don't look like CGI disasters. Agreed.
I like the turn of events I just wish it had been arrived at differently.
Capturing Jaime (Who would have legitimate value as a hostage in contrast to the Tarleys) and then releasing him would have been a better use of armistice.
Of course, the way it was done could signal a betrayal between Jaime & Cersei.
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2017 14:30:48 GMT
I'm not convinced Sansa really thinks the dead are coming, she's focused on Cercei IMO. I get that you don't see her as a villain and that's ok but not updating Jon's supporters further their belief that he abandoned them or may be captured or dead which would absolutely further her goal of having the North. This is all just a theory but I can see it. I've haven't trusted Sansa since she didn't tell Jon about the Vale at the BoB. The show overall has turned into a guessing game of which is more important.
We know the white walkers are more important, No, you don't. It's just what's been implied to you, the same way you were led to believe the Lannisters had killed Jon Arryn in Season 1. You did because you wanted to. You've been told the kings of Westeros and their armies couldn't stop them but you forgot it because it wasn't repeated and you're all so keen on seeing mankind set their differences aside and all join forces together. This is the big naive collectivist dream. Nothing works like a good outside threat to unite people behind whomever wants to take advantage of it. And maybe that's really what the authors want to convey. Maybe all they want to tell us is that if we all forget our interests and join in their stinking big room, doing what they say, the Gods will be appeased and it will stop global warming.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2017 14:37:06 GMT
The show overall has turned into a guessing game of which is more important.
We know the white walkers are more important, No, you don't. It's just what's been implied to you, the same way you were led to believe the Lannisters had killed Jon Arryn in Season 1. You did because you wanted to. You've been told the kings of Westeros and their armies couldn't stop them but you forgot it because it wasn't repeated and you're all so keen on seeing mankind set their differences aside and all join forces together. I agree to some extent.
I'm only speaking on the basis of what we have seen.
Regardless of which is the greater danger, I would argue that most people are really only concerned about the Iron Throne portion which is why there are so many godawful contortion to make who's on the throne "legitimate".
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2017 14:47:03 GMT
No, you don't. It's just what's been implied to you, the same way you were led to believe the Lannisters had killed Jon Arryn in Season 1. You did because you wanted to. You've been told the kings of Westeros and their armies couldn't stop them but you forgot it because it wasn't repeated and you're all so keen on seeing mankind set their differences aside and all join forces together. I agree to some extent.
I'm only speaking on the basis of what we have seen.
Regardless of which is the greater danger, I would argue that most people are really only concerned about the Iron Throne portion which is why there are so many godawful contortion to make who's on the throne "legitimate".
The struggle for the throne, which is human interaction, is obviously the richer, most interesting part. Only a silly fantasy story would place the "war against the dead" at its core. Having it as just another influence on the political story is the right decision. This is why I hope it will be dealt with early in the last season, leaving its aftermath be the main climax and resolution.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2017 14:50:28 GMT
I don't have a problem with either being the main issue considering it's a fantasy series.
If the throne was the main thing, I wish it were told better then it is right now. To make it into a typical story where the little guy not only prevails but is actually the legit ruler too is derivative.
I almost would prefer that horrible woman, Cersei, to just keep it for a change of pace.
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2017 15:01:30 GMT
I don't have a problem with either being the main issue considering it's a fantasy series. If the throne was the main thing, I wish it were told better then it is right now. To make it into a typical story where the little guy not only prevails but is actually the legit ruler too is derivative. I almost would prefer that horrible woman, Cersei, to just keep it for a change of pace. But it is what will happen and she is not horrible. She is the legitimate ruler too. And she even is the better one as well, as her family stands for economic freedom, making her the way out of the feudal age. I'm not joking.
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 14, 2017 16:38:09 GMT
I don't have a problem with either being the main issue considering it's a fantasy series. If the throne was the main thing, I wish it were told better then it is right now. To make it into a typical story where the little guy not only prevails but is actually the legit ruler too is derivative. I almost would prefer that horrible woman, Cersei, to just keep it for a change of pace. But it is what will happen and she is not horrible. She is the legitimate ruler too. And she even is the better one as well, as her family stands for economic freedom, making her the way out of the feudal age. I'm not joking.Yes you are, but it's fun so keep at it. The way out of the feudal age is what Jon has been preaching the entire time. The 'from nothing comes a king' storyline is too cliché, which is why the story won't end with Jon sitting on the Iron Throne. There won't be an Iron Throne, whether Jon survives the war or not.
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2017 16:53:57 GMT
But it is what will happen and she is not horrible. She is the legitimate ruler too. And she even is the better one as well, as her family stands for economic freedom, making her the way out of the feudal age. I'm not joking.Yes you are, but it's fun so keep at it. The way out of the feudal age is what Jon has been preaching the entire time. The 'from nothing comes a king' storyline is too cliché, which is why the story won't end with Jon sitting on the Iron Throne. There won't be an Iron Throne, whether Jon survives the war or not. No, I'm not. The way out of the feudal age is through the advent of capitalism (Lannisters and their gold instead of oaths of fealty), the cooperation with Banks (hello Cersei, hello Tycho) and the giving of important state functions to people outside from the land holding nobility (hello Qyburn).
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 14, 2017 17:58:12 GMT
Classic, Leo.
|
|
pk9
Sophomore
@pk9
Posts: 990
Likes: 152
|
Post by pk9 on Aug 14, 2017 21:06:01 GMT
It amazes me that people still think Sansa wants power. She turned down Jon's offer to put her in charge as Lady of Winterfell (since he was a Bastard). She's only spoken out against him when she disagrees his decisions. When Bran came home she tried to hand the Lordship to him immediately. And she just turned down an opportunity to usurp Jon this past episode.
Arya is suspicious, and LF is trying to play that up. But it is not true.
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 15, 2017 4:35:22 GMT
It amazes me that people still think Sansa wants power. People believe what they want and most of them are idiots.
|
|
|
Post by Reggie_Stration on Aug 15, 2017 8:26:18 GMT
It was OK. The dialogue was superb as usual. The first scene almost ruins the episode. About as worse as the Highgarden. To me it would have been better to have Jaime captured, told the information, and released to tell Cersei. They have also completely left the notion that it takes time to travel places or are simply skipping through months at a time and we can assume that Jon has been away for several months. I also don't quite get why Jon isn't allowed to send a raven updating the North to things like he got a buttload of dragonglass.My thoughts exactly. Why isn't he constantly updating the North on his current situation? I mean besides the fact that it alleviates the tension the writers are trying to build at Winterfell? Also agree on the opening scene, it was pretty lame. I'll believe in dragons and walking dead before I believe Bronn can pull Jaime miles downstream and yank him out of the water in all that armor. Other than that I enjoyed the episode a great deal. I forgot to mention the reveal that Jon is legitimate. Or at least, the reveal to the audience if not the characters. It almost seems irrelevant at this point. If it makes a difference you could imagine that Bronn was making stoppages along the way when taking Jamie downstream. Like bringing him out of the water then going again. He'd almost certainly have to do that to prevent both from dying. Still unrealistic but possible.
|
|
shangel
Sophomore
@shangel
Posts: 301
Likes: 127
|
Post by shangel on Aug 15, 2017 16:24:50 GMT
They've been laying bread crumbs all along. You really see it on the show, perhaps more so than the books. That look on her face whenever she sicks her dragons on someone, whether they deserve it or not. She revels in that power too much, it's only going to get worse now that she's destroying armies in the field. Her refusal to help Jon is understandable, but her attitude is even more disconcerting. She isn't acting like the benevolent leader her armies began following years ago. Daenerys has always been about blanket judgement and murderous coercion. It started when she sentenced the witch to burn and told the rest of her khalasar their enemies would die screaming. When she took Meereen, she had masters crucified without investigation or trial and called it justice. There is no excuse for the scum that kept liking her all along. Her character sure has changed, and not for the better. Maybe this has been mentioned on the board before and I missed it, but I'm sick of this "bend the knee" crap. Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 15, 2017 17:49:28 GMT
Daenerys has always been about blanket judgement and murderous coercion. It started when she sentenced the witch to burn and told the rest of her khalasar their enemies would die screaming. When she took Meereen, she had masters crucified without investigation or trial and called it justice. There is no excuse for the scum that kept liking her all along. Her character sure has changed, and not for the better. Maybe this has been mentioned on the board before and I missed it, but I'm sick of this "bend the knee" crap. Just my 2 cents. I don't think her character has changed much except in regards to what she must do as a leader or an ever increasing group of people plus an more pushback to her rule.
She has always been a bit on the ruthless side since at least season 2...Actually in season 1 she burned an enemy alive slowly.
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 15, 2017 17:54:12 GMT
Actually in season 1 she burned an enemy alive slowly.
That wasn't even an avowed enemy. If you listen carefully to what the "maegi" said when she confronted her, it sounds like she had no hand in any of it. She merely stated facts and implied the Gods had killed her unborn son. And indeed, Daenerys had been told not to enter the tent during the ritual. Still Daenerys enacted the cruelest vengeance on her.
|
|